Advanced Saddle Fit: STAY AWAY!

What a terrible experience. I hope you get your $$ back and I hope you kept your Schleese!

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
Last October, two saddlers came to our farm - Custom Saddlery and Colleen. I was starting to buy from Custom and took a look at what Advanced Saddle Fit/Colleen Meyer had. I decided against going with her back in October because it was obvious that everything she was selling was a wide twist. I’ve ALWAYS needed a narrow twist and prefer a monoflap because it gives me a closer contact with my horse. However, I now have a new PRE stallion who is VERY round and flat front to back. I did want him to be comfortable. So, I got caught up in the bling and designer aspect of Custom Saddlery and ordered from that fitter. I waited three months to get that saddle. It WAS a work of art - just gorgeous, but didn’t remotely fit my horse- rocked around on his back - the tree was all wrong for a horse like mine. However, before I could have the Custom Saddlery fitter back to look at it, on the day I got it, Colleen Meyer was at my barn fitting other horse. She looked at it and in no uncertain terms pronounced it an absolute disaster, told me that there was nothing the Custom Saddlery fitter could ever do to make that thoroughbred tree fit my flat, front to back, horse. I had a 10 day trial on the Custom Saddlery and what I knew to be at risk was my $500 non-refundable deposit and my fitting fee - about $650 altogether. With Colleen’s forceful opinion twisting up my thoughts, I never gave the Custom Saddlery fitter even a chance to fit that saddle to my horse, never even had her out. And naturally that very same day that Colleen trashed that saddle, she proceeded to sell me one of hers - one built on a cob tree, but a twin flap. I rode in the demo for all of 10 minutes and found it to be okay. I was impressed with how good my horse felt in that tree and I was convinced I was doing the right thing, completely forgetting my history in wide trees and twin flap saddles; swept up in Colleen’s conviction that it is ALL about the tree and the horse has to be comfortable first and foremost. I believed in her. To be sure, she also proceeded to trash the saddle that I had at the time - a $5700 2 year old custom made Schleese Link II. She not only trashed the saddle and how they are made, she trashed the tree and Jochen Schleese (I’ve had 3 of his saddles and I believe in him and the research that has gone into how he makes his saddles). But she cast doubt in my mind, nonetheless, to ensure that I didn’t back out of buying a saddle from her. My Link never gave me or my horse a moment’s trouble - I’d just gotten caught up in the designer aspect of the new saddles coming onto the market, which is the only reason I began to cast my eye around at other saddle.

So in February, after returning the Custom Saddlery Advantage R to the fitter and encouraged to take the the hit for $650 on that saddle, I ordered an AST Novio (three independent saddlers making this saddle on a cob tree - I can’t find them anywhere on the internet so don’t know who to contact in order to find them). After a two month wait, it came in April, but I was given the wrong saddle. Colleen delivered a saddle that I hadn’t ordered - wrong leather, wrong color trim, missing the patent leather in the front, though it had it in the back; utterly different saddle from what I’d ordered. I was stunned when she handed it to me and I uncovered it. Other than it being a MW - it wasn’t the saddle I ordered. She didn’t get defensive, she actually got huffy with me and took the saddle from me when I said “this isn’t the saddle I ordered”. That’s when she said “I’ll give you ALL your money back or you can keep this as a loaner while I get you your correct saddle made.” She said that she was going the extra mile to make me whole. I didn’t know what to do at the time…so I was rather cowed by her and went along with her. I didn’t feel I had any choice at the time.

At the same time, a barnmate had wanted to buy my Schleese Link II. During that same visit in April, Colleen (who knew my barnmate wanted my Link) talked her out of it, trashing the saddle, and proceeded to sell her one of her saddles. I had told Colleen the day before that I had a buyer in the barn for my saddle; she told me I was a good customer and she wouldn’t sell this person on one of her saddles. Nonetheless the next day, she not only talked her out of my saddle, but trashed it and sold her one of hers - okay that’s a side story - but goes to character.

So I ride in the “loaner” for three days and immediately send her a text telling her to put my order on hold; that I was experiencing horrible hip pain and didn’t know if I could ride in that wide twist. I went through all the things that people talked about on Chronicle about her - “your horse is difficult to fit and only I can fit him; he needs a cob tree; you, as the rider, just need to suck it up!” I’m a senior rider, but a very active lifelong rider all my life, but I’m sorry flexibility is something that leaves you as you get older. I tried using a foam roller, stretches, pain killers, everything. In sum, I put the new order on hold within three days of the new order being written and totally cancelled the ordeer a couple of weeks later because it was clear to me that I was not going to be able to ride in this saddle. I don’t even know for sure if the order was actually in. We spoke numerous times and I know that the manufacture of my saddle had been stopped and the most that had been done is the leather cut (according to her own words).

After chasing her for three weeks, with no response, I finally got a refund check. I had paid her $4,025 and my refund check was for $3,160 with a memo line reading “less 20% restocking fee.”

For her to charge me a 20% restocking fee for a non-existent saddle is dishonest. I received the wrong saddle; the second order was put on hold within three days, so saddle wasn’t in production. I’ve given her a chance to make this right, but have had no response from her. I won’t take this sitting down. Because of Colleen’s manipulation, I’m out a total of $1500 (the forfeited deposit on the Custom Saddlery saddle of $650 and now she’s trying to take another $900 as a “restocking fee”. She’s sold a lot of saddles at our farm. I’m not going to take this quietly.

I’ve disputed the charges with my credit card company and will not cash her check. If the credit card company doesn’t rule on my side, I will take this to Small Claims. I’m not going to let her ruin my life any more than she’s already down. She’s despicable. And I’m furious that she would have the nerve to do this to me under the circumstances.[/QUOTE]

The worse part of it all was that when my new saddle from Advanced Saddle Fit was being delivered, I sold my saddle and shipped it off the day after my new one came in. What a frig’n nightmare!!! I’m really gun shy now, and just sick to my stomach. I picked up a used Black Country Vinici (a saddle I’ve had before and which I loved because of the narrow twist), but my horse isn’t happy in it. He likes the cob tree and is not as free in his movement. My saddle search continues. I was thinking about getting the Black Country Vinici X which has the hoop tree, which may be a compromise between his comfort and mine, or I just found the Gullikson-Baines saddle - he claims to have developed a saddle both for a woman and Iberian horses.

There is a saga on Gullickson…FYI http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?199398-Equation-Saddlery&highlight=Gullickson

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8697802]
The worse part of it all was that when my new saddle from Advanced Saddle Fit was being delivered, I sold my saddle and shipped it off the day after my new one came in. What a frig’n nightmare!!! I’m really gun shy now, and just sick to my stomach. I picked up a used Black Country Vinici (a saddle I’ve had before and which I loved because of the narrow twist), but my horse isn’t happy in it. He likes the cob tree and is not as free in his movement. My saddle search continues. I was thinking about getting the Black Country Vinici X which has the hoop tree, which may be a compromise between his comfort and mine, or I just found the Gullikson-Baines saddle - he claims to have developed a saddle both for a woman and Iberian horses.[/QUOTE]

I feel compelled to comment that at least in regards to fit for the horse, Colleen was probably right that no matter how much you want a narrow twist, you may not be able to have one on a wide, round Iberian horse. I’m confused what happened with the first saddle that “felt okay” was that a demo or a used saddle you bought?

Note I’m not defending her business practices at all, I just hear this a lot from people with really wide horses and the reality is you can’t narrow the twist that much on a wide tree unless you build up the seat away from the tree, which is what you said you didn’t want.

Just as a different perspective, I’ve worked with Colleen on several saddles for different horses. I’ve never had a problem getting an excellent fit, and my saddles have arrived as ordered and within the promised time frame. She even worked with me to make a saddle I already had fit a horse that I couldn’t afford to buy a new saddle for.

I’m sorry that others have had different experiences, but I don’t think that you can say that’s the only way she operates, as I and others I know have had very satisfactory experiences with her over the past several years.

I don’t know what to make of this either. I’ve bought two saddles from Colleen over the last 10 years and both were good experiences.
I have a new horse and will likely need to make some saddle changes. Not sure how to proceed given others’ recent experiences.
She gave me tons of good information at a time when I wasn’t even shopping, and didn’t push anything on me. I respect her background and knowledge.
I’m sorry to hear others have not had the same experience.

[QUOTE=soloudinhere;8697945]
I feel compelled to comment that at least in regards to fit for the horse, Colleen was probably right that no matter how much you want a narrow twist, you may not be able to have one on a wide, round Iberian horse. I’m confused what happened with the first saddle that “felt okay” was that a demo or a used saddle you bought?

Note I’m not defending her business practices at all, I just hear this a lot from people with really wide horses and the reality is you can’t narrow the twist that much on a wide tree unless you build up the seat away from the tree, which is what you said you didn’t want.[/QUOTE]

I have a horse that has a back that is very wide and flat side to side. I had a master saddle fitter from England custom fit a saddle for him this January. He told me I could not go with a narrow twist since that would pinch his back. The twist is narrow right where he is wide.

I don’t know or care about any of the providers discussed in this post. I’m not seeing anything to egregious. What am I missing?

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
Last October, two saddlers came to our farm - Custom Saddlery and Colleen. I was starting to buy from Custom and took a look at what Advanced Saddle Fit/Colleen Meyer had. I decided against going with her back in October because it was obvious that everything she was selling was a wide twist. I’ve ALWAYS needed a narrow twist and prefer a monoflap because it gives me a closer contact with my horse. However, I now have a new PRE stallion who is VERY round and flat front to back. I did want him to be comfortable. So, I got caught up in the bling and designer aspect of Custom Saddlery and ordered from that fitter. I waited three months to get that saddle. It WAS a work of art - just gorgeous, but didn’t remotely fit my horse- rocked around on his back - the tree was all wrong for a horse like mine.[/QUOTE]

You bought a saddle from Custom Saddlery. Upon arrival, it didn’t fit your horse. This has nothing to do with Colleen.

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
However, before I could have the Custom Saddlery fitter back to look at it, on the day I got it, Colleen Meyer was at my barn fitting other horse. She looked at it and in no uncertain terms pronounced it an absolute disaster, told me that there was nothing the Custom Saddlery fitter could ever do to make that thoroughbred tree fit my flat, front to back, horse. I had a 10 day trial on the Custom Saddlery and what I knew to be at risk was my $500 non-refundable deposit and my fitting fee - about $650 altogether. With Colleen’s forceful opinion twisting up my thoughts, I never gave the Custom Saddlery fitter even a chance to fit that saddle to my horse, never even had her out. And naturally that very same day that Colleen trashed that saddle, she proceeded to sell me one of hers - one built on a cob tree, but a twin flap.[/QUOTE]

You didn’t give Custom Saddlery the chance to rectify the fit of their saddle. That has nothing to do with Colleen. You return the saddle without discussing the issue with Custom Saddlery and lose your deposit. That was your decision, not Colleen’s. You had Colleen look at the saddle since she was there, that led to you falling in love with a new saddle.

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
I rode in the demo for all of 10 minutes and found it to be okay. I was impressed with how good my horse felt in that tree and I was convinced I was doing the right thing, completely forgetting my history in wide trees and twin flap saddles; swept up in Colleen’s conviction that it is ALL about the tree and the horse has to be comfortable first and foremost. I believed in her. To be sure, she also proceeded to trash the saddle that I had at the time - a $5700 2 year old custom made Schleese Link II. She not only trashed the saddle and how they are made, she trashed the tree and Jochen Schleese (I’ve had 3 of his saddles and I believe in him and the research that has gone into how he makes his saddles). But she cast doubt in my mind, nonetheless, to ensure that I didn’t back out of buying a saddle from her. My Link never gave me or my horse a moment’s trouble - I’d just gotten caught up in the designer aspect of the new saddles coming onto the market, which is the only reason I began to cast my eye around at other saddle.[/QUOTE]

Her job is to sell saddles. Sounds like she does a good job of that. You were happy with your existing Link. The cost and age are irrelevant details. You said you got caught up in the new saddles. That’s on you.

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
So in February, after returning the Custom Saddlery Advantage R to the fitter and encouraged to take the the hit for $650 on that saddle, I ordered an AST Novio (three independent saddlers making this saddle on a cob tree - I can’t find them anywhere on the internet so don’t know who to contact in order to find them). After a two month wait, it came in April, but I was given the wrong saddle. Colleen delivered a saddle that I hadn’t ordered - wrong leather, wrong color trim, missing the patent leather in the front, though it had it in the back; utterly different saddle from what I’d ordered. I was stunned when she handed it to me and I uncovered it. Other than it being a MW - it wasn’t the saddle I ordered. She didn’t get defensive, she actually got huffy with me and took the saddle from me when I said “this isn’t the saddle I ordered”. That’s when she said “I’ll give you ALL your money back or you can keep this as a loaner while I get you your correct saddle made.” She said that she was going the extra mile to make me whole. I didn’t know what to do at the time…so I was rather cowed by her and went along with her. I didn’t feel I had any choice at the time.[/QUOTE]

You losing the deposit on the Custom Saddlery saddle was your decision, not hers. I don’t understand how you can say Colleen is responsible for that. Were your specifications for the ATV written down? Did the written order match the delivered product? Colleen offers a full refund or to re-make your custom saddle. I don’t see a problem with that offer. You chose to have her re-make it.

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
At the same time, a barnmate had wanted to buy my Schleese Link II. During that same visit in April, Colleen (who knew my barnmate wanted my Link) talked her out of it, trashing the saddle, and proceeded to sell her one of her saddles. I had told Colleen the day before that I had a buyer in the barn for my saddle; she told me I was a good customer and she wouldn’t sell this person on one of her saddles. Nonetheless the next day, she not only talked her out of my saddle, but trashed it and sold her one of hers - okay that’s a side story - but goes to character. [/QUOTE]

How you sell your Link is none of Colleen’s business. I think it was out of bounds for you two to discuss whom Colleen will or won’t sell a saddle to. A barn mate got caught up in the shiny new saddles, just like you did. Again, sounds like Colleen does her job well. :wink:

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
So I ride in the “loaner” for three days and immediately send her a text telling her to put my order on hold; that I was experiencing horrible hip pain and didn’t know if I could ride in that wide twist. I went through all the things that people talked about on Chronicle about her - “your horse is difficult to fit and only I can fit him; he needs a cob tree; you, as the rider, just need to suck it up!” I’m a senior rider, but a very active lifelong rider all my life, but I’m sorry flexibility is something that leaves you as you get older. I tried using a foam roller, stretches, pain killers, everything. In sum, I put the new order on hold within three days of the new order being written and totally cancelled the order a couple of weeks later because it was clear to me that I was not going to be able to ride in this saddle. I don’t even know for sure if the order was actually in. We spoke numerous times and I know that the manufacture of my saddle had been stopped and the most that had been done is the leather cut (according to her own words).

After chasing her for three weeks, with no response, I finally got a refund check. I had paid her $4,025 and my refund check was for $3,160 with a memo line reading “less 20% restocking fee.” …For her to charge me a 20% restocking fee for a non-existent saddle is dishonest. [/QUOTE]

You rode in the loaner for three days. What did you ride in the next couple of weeks? It sounds like the loaner.

Did the contract state a restocking fee? It doesn’t matter how or what you think the restocking is applied to. It could be for the first saddle/loaner that wasn’t to your specifications, the leather, the time spent communicating with the customer, etc. I don’t see how that is dishonest. It is similar to the non-refundable deposit from Custom Saddlery.

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
I received the wrong saddle; the second order was put on hold within three days, so saddle wasn’t in production. I’ve given her a chance to make this right, but have had no response from her. I won’t take this sitting down. Because of Colleen’s manipulation, I’m out a total of $1500 (the forfeited deposit on the Custom Saddlery saddle of $650 and now she’s trying to take another $900 as a “restocking fee”. She’s sold a lot of saddles at our farm. I’m not going to take this quietly. [/QUOTE]

You can’t say if the second ATV saddle was or was not in production. It doesn’t matter. If she has a 20% restocking fee you agreed to when you placed your order, then that is the cost of doing business. This is exactly like the nonrefundable deposit you agreed to with Custom Saddlery. Losing that deposit was your decision, not Colleen’s. I’m kinda gobsmacked you keep putting that on Colleen. You are an adult who makes their own purchase decisions. If the purchase agreement stated the restocking fee, then you agreed to it. If there was never any restocking fee stated, maybe you could argue that. I think that argument is hindered by your decision to keep the loaner for several weeks.

[QUOTE=Spanish_DQ;8692815]
I’ve disputed the charges with my credit card company and will not cash her check. If the credit card company doesn’t rule on my side, I will take this to Small Claims. I’m not going to let her ruin my life any more than she’s already down. She’s despicable. And I’m furious that she would have the nerve to do this to me under the circumstances.[/QUOTE]

I think the “ruin my life” melodramatic statement is what spurred me to post on this thread. I truly have no dog in this fight. I’m just stunned at the lack of personal responsibility.

Do you still have the Link? A bareback pad? Ride on.:slight_smile:

I find the whole mystique around buying a “majikal” saddle to be perplexing. Yes, I see people who ride in saddles that aren’t doing them any favors and I see saddles that really don’t fit the horses. Many of those saddles were high $$$, big name saddles that were sold by people more interested in making a buck than fitting the horse.

I would NEVER again buy a custom made saddle because most of the reps don’t seem to have a clue how to measure a saddle, given the number of people who are unhappy with how their new $$$ saddles fit. I do own a custom Roosli and thank my lucky stars that it arrived from Switzerland just as it should.

I always now buy a saddle that I can ride in and have my independent saddle fitter evaluate. Many saddles (not all) can be adjusted to fit properly by someone who knows what they are doing.

FWIW, I know someone who bought a saddle from Colleen and is very happy with it.

Spanish_DQ, I strongly recommend you contacting Diane Williams, The Saddle Tailor. She can assist you with finding a proper fitting saddle for your new horse.

[QUOTE=yankeeclipper;8707498]
Spanish_DQ, I strongly recommend you contacting Diane Williams, The Saddle Tailor. She can assist you with finding a proper fitting saddle for your new horse.[/QUOTE]

Second that. I saw Gary Severson yesterday and he recommended her (as he is not taking on new clients).

Shows that a Dartmouth Education taught her how to write. I think she passed on the ethics class.

I received her name from a very good friend who met her and was able to buy a used saddle off the truck. She spoke well of her, but did say that she is unresponsive and hard to reach. She is trying to have Colleen come back to check the fit and gave up, asking who I use. I found this post when I googled the business name, thank goodness.
I haven’t read to the end, but it appears she is still in business in 2016!

Giving out personally identifiable information to which hunt somebody is doxxing and probably illegal. while the person described above is shady, we don’t really have the entire story, let alone enough to start spreading rumors

Some of this isn’t rumors though…

[QUOTE=findeight;8752756]
Some of this isn’t rumors though…[/QUOTE]

yeah but it could devolve into that, at best it’s bad internet etiquette.

[QUOTE=findeight;8752756]
Some of this isn’t rumors though…[/QUOTE]

I’m asking a serious question here…when we are faced with these “he said she said” scenarios- how am I supposed to know the truth? that is why, just as in the “incident at tryon” thread in HJ— when you start to fling mud, please post actual facts and documentations, call it out 100%. Otherwise I am left with a muddled mess of “facts” and “things that happened”.

Names, receipts, screen shots, etc.

Just because OP says something does not mean I can believe her with no evidence. I appreciate the concern, but i could also write many many longer and worse posts about who I think people should “stay away from”.

However, we also need to remember that just because one person had X happen does not mean it will be universal. Some buyers, sellers, trainers, etc are just drama seekers and/or don’t get along with that person. I like to say “I didn’t have a good time, here’s why, but make up your own mind”.

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8752996]
I’m asking a serious question here…when we are faced with these “he said she said” scenarios- how am I supposed to know the truth? that is why, just as in the “incident at tryon” thread in HJ— when you start to fling mud, please post actual facts and documentations, call it out 100%. Otherwise I am left with a muddled mess of “facts” and “things that happened”.

Names, receipts, screen shots, etc.

Just because OP says something does not mean I can believe her with no evidence. I appreciate the concern, but i could also write many many longer and worse posts about who I think people should “stay away from”.

However, we also need to remember that just because one person had X happen does not mean it will be universal. Some buyers, sellers, trainers, etc are just drama seekers and/or don’t get along with that person. I like to say “I didn’t have a good time, here’s why, but make up your own mind”.[/QUOTE]

EXACTLY, tired of the witch hunts going on around here…

[QUOTE=moonlightsonata;8753137]
EXACTLY, tired of the witch hunts going on around here…[/QUOTE]

Its a useless thread to me. If you really want to make a point give us something real.
I’d hate to have someones’ business tarnished because of a half truth when they can’t defend themselves.
At least show some pics and post name so we can call you, op, and have a phone conversation.
Help us out. If you aren’t going to do that then you aren’t ready to “go there”. Stand behind your story with evidence and convince me.
Im not, at this point.

[QUOTE=SendenHorse;8753458]
Its a useless thread to me. If you really want to make a point give us something real.
I’d hate to have someones’ business tarnished because of a half truth when they can’t defend themselves.
At least show some pics and post name so we can call you, op, and have a phone conversation.
Help us out. If you aren’t going to do that then you aren’t ready to “go there”. Stand behind your story with evidence and convince me.
Im not, at this point.[/QUOTE]

Are you serious? Post name and phone number so that a random stranger, who most likely isn’t even local enough to use this business, can CALL you to prove to themselves that you’re “for real?”

[edit]

Beyond that, the thread is a year old. Other people besides the OP got screwed and posted about it, too.

It’s a public forum. Colleen is obviously capable of using a computer to “defend herself.” You’re free to give us all the virtual finger and try her out if you aren’t convinced because someone didn’t post an archive of phone call recordings and credit card statements for your perusal. Nobody’s stopping you.

[QUOTE=soloudinhere;8753707]
Are you serious? Post name and phone number so that a random stranger, who most likely isn’t even local enough to use this business, can CALL you to prove to themselves that you’re “for real?”

[edit]

Beyond that, the thread is a year old. Other people besides the OP got screwed and posted about it, too.

It’s a public forum. Colleen is obviously capable of using a computer to “defend herself.” You’re free to give us all the virtual finger and try her out if you aren’t convinced because someone didn’t post an archive of phone call recordings and credit card statements for your perusal. Nobody’s stopping you.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps a BBB complaint would produce more change, if that is in fact what she wants.
Of course she shouldn’t post her name and phone PUBLICALLY, but she is hiding behind the screen and runs away when it gets 'real".

Can you see my point here? It was a real point, to you know, cause real change with this company, to “save someone else the heartache”. Rather than half baked possibly true, possibly not statements.

we’ve seen many threads like this on here, so I ask why and what is the result of this 13 pages?

But yes, you and I have different thoughts. that is fine, this is a discussion board. :yes:

I just hate gossip when I’m trying to make plans and decisions. I just heard two opposite stories today about something in the horse world, from real people I know. Maybe I am asking for the moon…? whatever.

Spend and say what you want. People LOVE DRAMA! after all.