Advice and tips on working with my very nervous first horse? (Update #12: Great news at last!)

[2DogsFarm]

@hemitheconyxcaudicinctus

She likes me, she follows me around, but I don’t think she loves me. She’s not overly affectionate. I feel like I’m breaking my spine bending over backwards for her and have been every day for the past 3 months

Here’s part of your problem:
3 MONTHS
That is nothing in the life of an adult horse thrown into a new living situation.
And even less time to expect “love” - which at best would mean she recognizes you & doesn’t actively avoid your company.
Add to that your palpable anxiety - that comes through in your posts & most certainly is picked up by your mare.
Horses, as prey, are really good at sensing emotion. Both in other horses & the other animals they interact with. Humans included.

I think you both need a break.
Turn mare out for at least a couple months. More would be better.
If you can, avoid going to see her or at best, just visit briefly w/treats.
Stopped any & all attempts to train her.
This includes your leading her anywhere. In, Out, just stop.

Sorry to suggest this detachment.
But your angst is not going to help fixing any issues.
Not her physical problems.
Not her interactions with you.
Not your disappointment with your horseowning dream.

[wanderlust]

This is not a bad suggestion at all. Also, winter in New England will turn the biggest saints into total psychos, so this was also working against you. I kept the horses up here instead of going to FL this year, and it was an epic mistake that I won’t make again.

[outside_leg]

I’m in New England as well. If you want/need recommendations on vets for a second opinion (which I highly recommend) or rehab facilities, please reach out. I’m so sorry this is your first experience with horse ownership.

I also want to add that if your vet said the horse is in a high degree of pain, euthanasia is not necessarily a bad option. KS surgery is hard and invasive. The rehab is tough. If her feet are also a problem, you could do the surgery and find she’s still in pain. Ask your vet (and a second opinion) what they would do if it were their horse. Ask what the humane options are. It’s not an easy decision, but if she’s truly not comfortable now and if she stands a good chance of being in pain during and after the rehab, the kindest thing may be to let her go. I’ve always been told by vets better a day too early than a day too late.

Again, I’m so sorry. And if you want any recommendations on vets or rehabs, let me know.

[fivestrideline]

OP I think a break, even just for a few days, is a good thing. I do have a few questions:

• is the trainer you’re working with the one who helped set you up with the horse? If so, it’s time for a new one. Best case, they’re too naive and inexperienced to be a trainer. Worst case, they’re complicit in the experience you have had.

• what are your personal riding goals? Assume you don’t own a horse, what do you want to do, within your lifestyle and budget? I asked this wayyyy early in this thread, but I think you should go back and really try to be objective about it. You can determine how this horse fits (or doesn’t) once you have a solid idea of what you want to accomplish.

I have a feeling you’re a bit lost in the weeds here (and I can’t blame you!). A break, a little self reflection and reality check, and a second opinion might help you figure out where to go next. In the meantime, get her feet comfy and block her back, and go from there.

[Angela_Freda]

@2DogsFarm

Here’s part of your problem:
3 MONTHS
That is nothing in the life of an adult horse thrown into a new living situation.
And even less time to expect “love” - which at best would mean she recognizes you & doesn’t actively avoid your company.
Add to that your palpable anxiety - that comes through in your posts & most certainly is picked up by your mare.
Horses, as prey, are really good at sensing emotion. Both in other horses & the other animals they interact with. Humans included.

This stood out to me also.
That connection is a very long road, built over time, and paved with fairness and consistency. Its not measured in months, especially after the horse has been the places she’s likely been.

Learning where you got her threw floodlights on where you are and why. Goodness knows where they got her, or why she was at a place that they get their horses… But her issues sure make sense in light of this revelation.

Bottom line, you have a choice here:

Go forward with this horse knowing it may mean zero riding for you, or worse a serious injury to you

Save both of you this difficult road, give her a lovely day of sunshine and treats and an end that likely was reasonable two owners ago.
If you choose the latter, there’s no complaining about what you’re missing, because you are choosing to defer your dream with eyes open.

Eta and please, find better mentors than the ones who didn’t guide you far away from this sales barn. Yikes! They are doing you no favors.

[vxf111]

Did that importer make amends in some way with you?

[wanderlust]

@vxf111

Did that importer make amends in some way with you?

They did not.

[findeight]

For OP…please do NOT cancel your long awaited European trip. A few weeks away will not hurt the horse and you don’t have to do the major surgery right this minute without exploring other less invasive, risky and expensive alternatives. You have time. And figure in the fact you must board out and don’t have a convenient field to chuck her out and let Dr Green help.

With her age guesstimated as “mid teens”, especially if she’s in the upper range, she may not bounce back as quickly as a younger horse. Using teeth to establish a horses age gets further off the older they get once they age into a “full mouth”. Had a known to be 19 year old whose teeth read around 13-14 and a known to be 21 year old whose teeth said 14ish. Body condition is no gauge either, both these were show Hunter shape and could have been 10-12. Competed a known to be 24 year old in Adult Hunters whose teeth said late teens and body of a young teenager.

I mention these because NONE of these horses were candidates for major surgery on advice of their regular sport horse specialist vets. They have a larger risk of complications, longer rehab time and there are often quality of life issues and questions.

Avoiding major surgery on an older horse of unknown age may be in their best interests. Certainly would not rush into it without trying other alternatives. Including a second opinion.

Is she on some type of pain management program to relieve her chronic pain while you try to figure out what to do? You want to talk relieving her stress? Start with relieving her pain. Ask your SB race trainer barn owner what he recommends, he’s got decades of hands on experience managing hard working athletes. Consider what he says.

Ask that surgeon how many “mid teen” horses he has performed the same procedure on and how they were at 3 months, 6 months and a year post op. Did they return to regular work? Does he even know? Same for your primary vet, how many has she recommended the surgery to and with what success rate a year later?

Make more informed choices, take your time. And go to Europe.

Run anything anybody advises you to do by us on here, not that we are always right, we aren’t, but the more information based on IRL experiences, the better. And we wont try to sell you anything.

[vxf111]

F that. I am not surprised. Sorry.

[vxf111]

OP this is a ton to take in. It’s overwhelming. Don’t feel like you owe any of us an explanation.

That being said, while all have different communication styles and we might disagree with each other at times-- I think everyone here wants the best for you. I am not sure that was/is true of the people around you IRL. Maybe some of this was pure ignorance on their part, but that’s not reassuring when you have difficult decisions to make now and can’t trust your team.

When you’re ready, feel free to use us a sounding board or not. You don’t owe anyone an explanation.

[Djones]

@endlessclimb

I agree with those saying fix the feet, and for me I’d get her in solo turnout right away to begin resolving the buddy sourness all the time instead of just when you’re there.

If that doesn’t resolve her anxiety ridden and balky attitude, I’d euth and start over. I would not sink a boatload of money into this horse. I have a feeling you’re going to sink a crapload of money in and still have a rank mare at the end of this.

And take lessons, both on the ground and in the saddle.

I don’t disagree you got rooked. But that doesn’t mean you’re somehow beholden to this horse. There’s a reason she ended up at this sale barn, and you’re not obligated to be her savior.

all of this. Every word.

OP, many of us have been in your boots or helped someone in your boots. I had a girl come to me for lessons. She’d bought a pinto mare that would spin out from under her. The mare had the personality of a 2x4. I worked with her a few times at her barn, but she didn’t really have anywhere safe to school a difficult horse, so she brought her to my place. I, having ridden horses for a million years, could easily catch and handle and ride this mare, and she wouldn’t even try anything. she was a fantastic racking horse, sure footed and sound, but was not a beginner’s horse and definitely not ‘loving.’ she was just there. When the owner rode her, she was always (the person) holding a bit back, waiting on the next spin and drop. we worked and worked and worked on her confidence but that barrier was just there. I finally issued an ultimatum- you two are not a match and never will be. Take her home or let me sell her for you and let’s find you a good one. She took her home, and a couple of weeks later the mare bolted in hand, got away, and double-barreled on the departure, striking her wrist and arm. Miraculously she didn’t really hurt her. the owner called me from her pasture and said ‘that’s it. sell this bit**.’
Done. Found her a trail riding home and told them she was a little looky about cows and better in company, and off she went. Done.

I found her a gem of a barrel of a small horse, took up your leg and carried you anywhere happily. Her only hole was being nippy if you girthed her up too quickly. It was a match made in heaven. In a few short months the owner was happily barebacking all over the hills and trails and having an absolute blast.

THAT is what you deserve as a caring horse owner. A horse that is a joy and a pleasure.

NEVER forget that it costs as much to feed a bad one as a good one.

[steelerino]

OP I just want to echo the sentiment that the surgery more then likely won’t fix the problem. My horse had multiple issues aside from the KS that were causing his problems. He was 16 when things started to unravel and I was not going to go broke to try to fix a horse who was never really anything amazing to begin with (meaning low level jumper with no show record and NOT a trail horse). Fortunately he was not painful doing nothing so a very affordable to me retirement was a viable option. Now he gets to live out his days on my dime but I can agree with you that the entire thing really sucked the fun out of horseownership for me to the point where at 42 I will not be buying another one.

[athelas]

@beau159

I also don’t mind pulling shoes on a new horse, although I may or may not do right away - just depends. When I bought my mare 3 years ago, she had shoes on all 4 feet. However, she gal selling her had her down in Arizona for the winter (horse is actually from North Dakota) so that was the first time she had shoes on in her life, and only b/c of the Arizona desert. I pulled her hind shoes right away after I bought her, but I kept the front ones on all summer. When our riding season was winding down, then I pulled the front ones and gave her the winter to get used to being barefoot on front again. I haven’t put shoes back on her. She doesn’t need them.

I did similar with my gelding. Mine was purchased at auction and still had all 4 driving shoes (complete with borium). We pulled them to see how he’d do, with the thought that if he was footsore or otherwise bothered, we’d xray and then do fronts. It will be 3 years in September and he’s been barefoot since that day. Also happens to be one of the farrier’s fave clients

[hemitheconyxcaudicinctus]

Been thinking more. Taking the next 2 days off because I simply cannot focus with this weighing on me. Going to do a full foot workup. Farrier tomorrow as well. Idepending on the foot findings I may discuss euthanasia if it’s more serious.

My mom pointed out that once she’s not in pain she might be a very different horse. I suppose that’s true.

I’m still not even really at the stage of having totally processed the fact that the dream has crumbled apart this badly. Everything I do with her now feels kind of pointless.

[athelas]

Days like this are so hard! Especially with you being at the barn every day, it’s really easy to not be able to see the forest for the trees.

Take a little bit of heart that so many here have dealt with KS and are giving you fantastic advice. There are lots of steps between dx and needing surgery. There are many, many horses that are managed exceedingly well with correct shoeing/trimming and being worked long and low. When your skills have progressed, it may be worth looking into a band system like Equicore/Equiband. They are used frequently in KS cases! (my trainer is part of a rehab team with our barn’s body worker).

[Sparrowette]

@Alterrain

Someone very wise told me once “if you want surgery, ask a surgeon.”

I will add, a HUGE percentage of horses jumping the Real Big Sticks have some degree of KS. They don’t all have surgery (you’d be surprised at how few at that level are insured). They are rather, very well shod, very well muscled, and very well maintained.

Now I don’t pretend to know better than your vet, BUT if it was my horse and my dollar, I would get the front feet comfortable, get the horse muscled properly, and then see where you’re at.

This^^^. I’d be looking into fixing any foot pain before any back issues.

[Natalie]

I’m so sorry you’re going through this! Echo all that’s been said about you having been let down by everyone, as has the horse of course.

Definitely fix the feet…that’ll be step one. I didn’t read every detail of the back pain issues, but you could trial some Robaxin and bute in combo for 10 days and see if it helps (or something similar…muscle relaxer plus pain relief). It might, might not. Keep in mind that even once she’s starting to feel a little better, it’ll take some time before she realizes that it doesn’t hurt and will stop anticipating pain.

Agreed that 3 months is a really short time period, though I know it feels like ages when you’re “in it.” I have one retiree and one long-term care lease horse right now. The lease boy was a green bean project–unknown history, came to the barn underweight, neglected, and very, very green. And highly anxious under saddle. It’s taken two years of steady, patient work, but he’s slowly getting more comfortable with his own brain and learning to self-regulate (fingers crossed…this is horses, so I always apply a disclaimer in my head because things can also go south at any point). He also had some pain issues related to foot balance and what we learned were nearly-fused arthritic hocks, even though he’s young (around 6-7 right now we think). But he’s cute, a fancy mover, and has the best puppy personality. The personality took a few months to really come out, and the bond between us took longer. It’s just a process. Sometimes you just have to trust your gut instinct and keep on keepin-on.

Or you can call it quits because it’s not fun and is draining you. No judgement…this is a hard, expensive sport and you don’t need to ruin yourself emotionally or financially for a horse. I’m just stubborn and patient, but plenty of people think I’m nuts.

[Inimitable]

OP, I was you about 6 years ago. It wasn’t my first horse, but it was my first horse in about 20 years as a re-riding adult. I bought a TB, nice prospect from a reputable reseller. I got him in August. He showed immediate signs of ulcers, so we treated. In October he fractured his splint bone, which resulted in surgery. While he was at the vet for the spint removal, I x-rayed his back because he had been displaying some soreness. Boom. Kissing spine. Meanwhile we struggled with his front feet - thin soles, underrun heels, zero hoof wall, etc. My vet recommended going straight in for the lig snip. He went to Tufts for surgery, got a bone scan first to make sure his back was his primary issue, and then came home to start the rehab.

It was an utterly emotionally exhausting sh*tshow. I didn’t ride for months after getting my “first” horse. All my time and money poured into him. I needed a break badly.

He had the surgery in January. We did the recommeded stall rest and rehab. I sat on him in April, he still wasn’t ready - and then in May, after another month of intense rehab, he was strong enough to start back undersaddle. He came back better than before (oh hey, right lead, thanks for making an appearance!). But he still wasn’t right.

A little while later he was sore in his right stifle. X-rayed. Bone cyst. Injected.

Back into work he went. Still “better” but not perfect. At least rideable. But horse was an absolute chicken about everything and fairly unpredictable undersaddle - not dangerous, but could be balky and did have a buck. He had good days and bad.

Then came the EPM diagnosis. He wasn’t neuro, but would “tie up” when stressed (i.e. ridden) during hot, humid days. Treated, again he was “better.”

This whole time (a couple years of chasing and treating diagnoses) we never lost focus on rehabbing his front feet.

A year or so after getting him “good” he started to gas colic intermittently. Landed in the horsepital after one really bad episode. Ultrasound, scope - ulcers were back.

I spent 4-5 years trying to get this horse comfortable and rideable for my ever evolving and downgraded goals for him. We never got there.

I am incrediby lucky that during all of this I was able to buy a farm and bring him home. Which meant that he needed a buddy, which meant that I eventually also had a rideable horse.

Last summer I stopped riding him entirely. We were both miserable trying to make it happen. I have never loved this horse more - he is happy, I am happy. Literally just yesterday I pulled his shoes and he entered “official” retirement. He has a marem to watch over now and he takes his job very very seriously. That’s enough for me. lol

I know I am in a really fortunate spot to be able to keep him. And I tell you this story not just to let you know that YOU ARE NOT ALONE. But also give you permission to start over. If I didn’t have the space and resources to give him a happy retirement (he’s ony 13, sigh), euthanasia would not have been a wrong choice. He’s not a horse I would EVER sell or give away. He absolutely would have ended up in a terrible place.

Looking back, my journey with him has been really really miserable. But he also set me on a path that I would not change for the world. I have learned an incredible amount because of him. And he has only made me better for the other horses in my life.

It’s ok to learn from your mare, recognize that you both served a purpose in each other’s lives, and then move on - whatever that ends up looking like.

The one ‘regret’ I have with him is jumping to KS surgery straight away. Had I known what we know now, I would have tried rehab and correct work first. To be honest, his xrays didn’t look half as bad as your mare’s - but he was quite symptomatic. I don’t think that skipping surgery would have resulted in a different outcome for him, but it would have saved both of us a great deal of stress, pain, and, of course, money.

Hang in there. You’ve been dealt a crappy hand, to be sure. But you have options.

[barnesthenoble]

So, so sorry you’re going through this, OP. Horses can be amazing but they can also (and sometimes lately I think more often than not) heartbreakers in the worst way. I’m sorry you’ve been let down by the people around you and the people you purchased this horse from. So many of us have learned these lessons the hard way, too, and it never gets easier.

Second/third/fourth/fifth-ing the votes for get the feet right and see where you are. Too many folks jump straight to KS surgery and end up regretting it because it was not the primary issue. I’m glad to hear you’re doing a hoof workup. Definitely get rads and explore shoes. If the dx is something along the lines of navicular, laminitis, etc (or even if not), PLEASE do what another poster suggested and reach out to The Humble Hoof Rehab. It’s in MA, and the owner, Alicia Harlov, is fantastic. Rehab board there isn’t cheap but it’s all inclusive and will have her out and moving 24/7 under the supervision of an incredibly experienced and caring hoofcare provider. If you can swing it I would send her there for 3-4 months before doing the KS surgery and see what you have. If it’s not financially feasible to send her there, I completely understand–it wouldn’t be easily doable for me, so I get it! Alicia would be more than happy to chat with you about if it would be a good fit, though, and even if you end up not sending Ginger down there I think it could be a good conversation. I just wanted to reiterate that as a good option to explore since it’s in your area. You can find the website by Googling “humble hoof rehab.” This could be another option that would still allow you to go to Europe. I really don’t think you should skip that trip. I think you would regret it.

Do you have another vet you can speak to for a second opinion? I would be a bit skeptical of the current vet you work with based simply on their insistence that the KS must be primary and not secondarily symptomatic to the feet. While it’s certainly possible that the KS is a clinical issue that could need surgery, sore feet will always, every time, result in back pain. Jumping to surgery with the feet as kind of an afterthought is just a huge waste of everyone’s time, money, emotional energy, and prolonging the horse’s pain.

I also want to agree with other posters that if you need to, euthanasia may still be the kindest gift you can give her. It’s hard, it’s heartbreaking, it will feel like a horrible way to end your first horse owning experience, but it may also bring with it a sense of relief for you. And she will be 100% safe and out of pain. Horses don’t have any concept of time, whether it be tomorrow or a year from now. She won’t know the difference. She will know that she was loved and had friends and food and care. And you can regroup, and recover, and when you’re ready, re-explore horses with your eyes wide open and a new knowledge of what to look for.

I had to put my second horse down just shy of 6 years old after 18 months of rehabbing him for an undisclosed injury, and I suspect there were issues higher up that I didn’t have the finances or wherewithal to explore. I spent another year paying off the debt that I’d accrued from his various vet bills for the litany of other issues that had cropped up during those 18 months. If I could go back in time, I would do things very differently–because I ignored my gut instincts that something was REALLY wrong for 18 months and allowed vets and other people to tell me I was overthinking it, that it was just this or that or the other thing. I don’t regret that I gave him the best final 18 months of his life that I could, and he died loved and cared for and having learned that people were safe instead of brutal. I could not have rehomed this horse in good conscience. But I regret the debt I put myself into and stress and negative consequences that had for me, personally. I regret dragging it out for as long as I did instead of listening to the voice in the back of my head that started saying “I think I know where this is going to end up” around month 2.

Can you afford to do the surgery and rehab and hoof care without going into debt? Or without going into debt that you’ll be paying off for months or years with no horse to show for it if the worst were to happen?

Try your best–and I know how hard this is, oh I do–to sit back and really think. Listen to your body. Listen to your heart. What is it telling you? What do your convictions, deep down, say? Even if you feel guilty about what they’re saying–even if you think it’s horrible–sit with them for a minute. Is your gut saying to do everything you possibly can, because you know you’re able to right now and you won’t be able to rest easy until you do, even if the end result is the same? Or do you feel like some part of you needs to call it now, or knows where this is going and it’s not going anywhere good? I try not to be overly sentimental and you have to balance the evidence with the feeling–but I also think that sometimes, you just know.

I wish you the best of luck and sending enormous hugs from across the country. Horses are hard, but they won’t all be this hard. We owe them care, comfort, and meeting their individual and species-specific needs–and sometimes that looks like the best few months we can give them and then a peaceful end. We do not owe them our financial security, our sanity, or the rest of our lives.

And for the love of god, go to Europe.

[ShenanAnna]

Whatever else happens, this horse is teaching you much-needed (by everybody) adult decision-making skills. Sigh. Hard, hard, hard lessons, but oh, so necessary.

Hugs.

And don’t underestimate the power of the gut. We know a lot more than we think we know, and those “gut feelings” seem to consolidate all that knowledge. It’s like you know, inside. Is that your subconscious “talking”? Who knows. Certainly not me.