Does this barn switch turnout at some point? Where everyone comes in during the day for the spring/summer? If so, I’d hang up the working with her under tack until then. Give her a break and hope she forgets the trauma and then start over. Until then (hoping that’s the case), can you come out when they all come in for the night, and just hang with her for a while in her stall, then introduce grooming again in the stall if she’s safe with it, and then revisit a crosstie near horses she knows and can see?
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This book does not do all the modern positive reinforcement stuff, he was a Russian Hussar officer who fought in WWI.
Vladimir Littauer “Schooling Your Horse”.
When I got my first horse he was a 5 year old just gelded with 3 weeks of training Anglo-Arab, and all the horse experience I had was 4 years of trail rides in Chile and Uruguay. I only had 2 riding lessons in South America. I managed to get 3 more riding lessons when I got back in the USA, and besides one guided trail ride in the Grand Tetons National Park that was all the horse experience I had.
Once I got my first horse I had a few months of weekly lessons, then I was on my own (no extra money for more lessons or training my green horse.)
Vladimir Littauer and his method of training horses is the only reason why I did not totally ruin my wonderful horse. It took me years, but I got my horse trained, he became a much better jumper than I was even though I had not jumped before I started training him. Between reading Vladimir Littauer’s books (including “Common Sense Horsemanship” too), trying stuff, making enormous mistakes, and finally learning to listen to my horse I succeeded. Eventually he ended up light in hand when I wanted him light in hand, he ended up sensitive to the twitching of my calf muscles for a leg aid, most of the time I stayed out of the riding ring and rode in the pastures or out on the trails.
Another good author was John Richard Young, especially his book “Schooling for Young Riders”, especially for those of us that have a greatly less than perfect horse.
Negative reinforcement gets a lot of bad press. The horses I trained never acted like they thought I was cruel doing this way, they were glad to KNOW exactly what I wanted and relaxed under me.
Now 53 years later, very handicapped with my MS, my riding teacher uses me to help retrain some of her lesson horse failures, especially horses with a tendency to balk or horses who are nervous because they do not understand what riders want. She values how I can explain to these horses stuff that they never understood before (and these horses are in their 20s.)
Vladimir Littauer and his method never led me wrong. I still go back to his books first if I run into a problem. So what if it is negative reinforcement, all the horses care about is that I explain stuff to them clearly, train them logically, reward them properly, and not ask them to do something impossible.
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Although I have many years of experience, I understand the exasperation in your last post. I’ve been there myself with a very troubled horse. I found tools from Warwick Schiller (when he was just starting the “attuned” thing), Tristan Tucker, and playing with liberty work to help me find a path through. But it was very hard for me.
This book won’t really help you train the horse but it might help you train yourself. And I found comfort in seeing that even someone like Mark Rashid felt lost at times going through a similar internal process.
When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.
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OP, the Littauer book is old and out of print, but I have a copy. If you want it, I’d love to give it to you, along with a medal for putting up with all the finger-wagging, scolding, and condescension in this thread. Kudos for not losing your cool. PM me an address if you wish.
In the advice department, I can only share that my thoroughbred is a hot mess on alfalfa. His weight and energy level are a balancing act. I removed him from one retirement barn because they fed alfalfa, and I couldn’t stand being around him when he was on it. He was a high-headed nervous wreck.
I didn’t create this problem, inappropriate feed did. I moved him and paid extra for timothy hay. He’s close enough now that I can see him every day. It took a couple months of patiently hand walking him on the trail before he realized he was home and completely relaxed.
You’ll get there!
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This is also ‘kicking through’ and doesn’t really mesh with this statement.
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I should add that my adult riding has been centered around a primarily recreational self board riding club that has a handful of part time instructors, visiting or keeping their own horses there, but absolutely no provision for being in a program.
Our barn is also “low end of nice horses” so there’s a lot of bargains, projects, evergreen teens, ex OTSB or OTTB, etc.
And my observation is that every new or adult returning rider creates serious issues within their first 6 months of ownership that require immense amounts of self education to solve. I basically managed to make my mare almost unrideable in our first year by following common sense advice.
The details were different from the OP so I won’t get into them but just to say it is very very common.
I should add that even the group of people who bought horses off a dude string that was being dispersed ended up with tons of problems. It’s not just the folks who buy 3 year old OTTB. You can get into trouble with a 20 year old dude string horse too. Herd bound, stroppy, balky, once he’s out of the trail ride nose to tail routine
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People are not offering advice for a ‘gotcha’ moment. People are offering advice because A) they have also beat their heads against the walls, trying to make something happen that probably isn’t going to and B) because the situation you describe is a novice horse owner with a problem horse in a not great training situation.
There is no tip that will get you where you want to go. What will get you there is to find the root cause of the problem and try to fix THAT. CBoylen glommed on to the fact that you are working the horse alone in an empty barn. That is a hard place from which to start and you just said, “not sure I can do anything else.” So, if you don’t fix that problem, you won’t fix any of the others. You are going to have to do something different.
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I will second (or third or fourth or fifth?) the suggestion of Warwick Schiller. He has a lot of free content you can start with on YouTube but if I were you I’d subscribe for at least a few months. It costs less per month than one lesson and you can even do a free trial. The reason I advise subscribing is that his system is more coherent on the app/website and there’s a lot of value in the full-length videos. From your first post my impression was of a herdbound, anxious horse being put in an overwhelming situation, and he has a lot of good methods for anxious horses. As much knowledge as there is here on COTH, I think you will get more out of in-depth videos than all the words we can type. There’s no one exercise that would be a silver bullet, but I do think his “standing still and present” flowchart will get you going on the right direction.
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I also recommend Warwick Schiller. Not that I’ve followed his exact program, but there are a lot of things to think about there.
Like OP, I ran into a lot of problems with my mare (my first and probably last horse.) I too worked through herdbound behaviors, anxiousness etc. And, early is the process, I got bullied online for even having this horse in the first place - which BTW is a great way to undermine someone who is already doubtful of their abilities. I put her into full training 4 months after I got her, with the idea that I’d give us 6 months. Also she was much more green than I’d expected for a horse that was nearly 9 and had a show record.
That 6 months turned into another 6 months and so on. I’ve had her 15 years, she is now retired, and while it’s not been a smooth ride, and yes I probably should have sold her early on, I think we’ve done OK. I now hand walk her all over when footing allows, which is very enjoyable and low key for both of us. My only current regret is that I can’t trailer her to get to more places to walk.
Things that helped: for herdbound stuff, going very very slowly. I did a lot of 10 more steps, stop and sit with that, 10 more steps etc.
– that I eventually realized that we are too much alike - internalizers, anxious, etc. But this led to empathy.
– realizing that she’s actually very safe, if one can sit a spook and occasionally defer to her better judgment.
– realizing that there were things I wanted to do that weren’t going to happen with her, and (eventually) being OK with that.
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Update #1
Decided to bite the bullet and subscribe to the online WS to make sure I’m getting the most out of it and got the app. It’s definitely a better system than the youtube channel in terms of organization. I recognize a lot of what he talks about in ‘building connection’ as part of our daily routine for the past two months - I hang out with her in her stall while she eats every day and brush her when she starts on her hay, chill in her stall, hand graze her, etc. - and I do see signs of connection beyond what a lot of the example horses have in the video examples; she’s immediately interested in me when I come into her paddock, follows me, comes when called, watches me, nickers to greet me when it’s not mealtime, etc. Am incorporating matching steps but after a few days she doesn’t seem to have noticed yet.
Two of the colt starting books I ordered off Thriftbooks came today - Starting the Colt by Mary Twelveponies and Basic Training of the Young Horse by Reiner Klimke.
We’ve been doing leading little by little like in 50ft trail ride vis-a-vis approaching the arena to do our groundwork in there. She’s definitely getting more willing to walk along although one difference that I see between her and the horses in WS’s separation anxiety videos is that her balking doesn’t seem tied to looking over her shoulder/calling out for other horses/signs of anxiety; in fact there are a lot of lick and chews/low headset moments when she stops and doesn’t want to go forward. Not sure what to make ofthat. In other news, a massive tree came down in front of her paddock with the weather we’ve been having here and she was curious but otherwise unbothered by it. Very brave girl. She continues to get better on the crossties while the other horses are in the barn and didn’t paw at all today.
As of four days ago she is in estrus for the first time since she came into my possession. I’m delighted and relieved to say that she is not moody, nippy, or touchy - which was an unknown when I bought her because I got her in the winter - she’s just more interested in the geldings and pees everywhere like an ocelot which is honestly kind of funny even though I’m the one who has to dump sawdust on her pee. If anyone here has ever watched Archer, it’s kind of like the scenes with Babou. But on the whole - she is as tolerant and sweet as she is out of estrus. Most of this thread has been focused on her problems but I do want to emphasize that on the whole she’s a very good girl with an amazing temperament and I’m so lucky to have one of the horses that sellers describe as “”"“not mare-ish”""".
Tomorrow she is finally done with the slow, slow transition to the normal feed the vet and I wanted her on as opposed to the sweetfeed the racehorses here are on (see previous post about groom changing her feed without asking/telling me for backstory). Shockingly (/s), it’s not “going right through her” as they claimed was the reason for changing the feed behind my back - which tells me that the morning barnhand who arranges the feed transitioned her way too fast to begin with, because I’ve packed her feedbuckets personally each night to make sure it’s done correctly and slowly enough over the course of a few weeks now with zero issues whatsoever.
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Really good to hear!!!
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Winter is hard. Change of routine and location is hard. It’s harder for some horses and some people than others. You have a new horse in a new place on changing feed in the worst part of the year (in my delicate flower, cold-hating opinion). That is a lot for both of you. It can take a while for a new partnership to come together and a horse to settle into a new place, even in the best of circumstances. I’ve had some horses, even ones that are great show horses, that take a bit longer than others to settle into their new living environment.
It sounds like you are making good progress with your latest update and, in addition to the good advice you have received, I just wanted to say: give it time and try not to be too discouraged. Sometimes things get much, much easier just with the arrival of warmer weather and longer days and in another few months as her routine settles, she settles in, and you keep getting to know each other, you might find that you have come a very long way and the journey will be well worth it! 
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I’m going to be the Debbie downer here.
Frankly, this sounds like an entirely unsuitable horse for a first time horse owner. This idea that you now have to change all of your goals and can possibly never reach them and should be ok with that because it’s about the bond because of this horse is ridiculous. What do you want to do? There’s nothing wrong with realizing that you got taken by a shady horse seller and to sell this horse and buy one that you can do what you want, now.
I am seeing lots of advise for ground work and supplements and essential oils, and addressing her emotions and posts AGAINST hiring a professional. Sure, my husband can manage to not get run down and make some progress with a horse that is barely halter broke and is being reactive and disobedient. But when I take that horse over? Horse is singing a different tune in 5 minutes AND when I hand it back to him that training STICKS. It sticks not because I beat the horse into submission, but because I’m faster and better about reading horse behavior and can get the right reaction faster. I think there’s a lot of “oh if horsey doesn’t love me then we don’t have a bond” that people get involved with that leads to poorly behaved horses. You don’t have to beat a horse, but the right trainer handling the horse is going to make what people have said took them YEARS take 30 days and that trainer can show you how to make that training stick. Your bond with a horse is going to be better and stronger when the horse respects that you are not only the herd leader, but that what you say goes, period, AND that you aren’t going to let them get eaten by an alligator.
Personally, horses once properly trained, should have very few issues moving to new barns, otherwise how on earth can we be expected to take them to a show and show immediately? It’s not about the move, it’s about this horse having zero experience and little training. You mention auction, which means that there is likely very little accurate history about this horse. It sounds like you’re spending A LOT of time just leading her around when you should be riding your new horse. It isn’t always this hard.
It’s entirely up to you, but I’ve been there done that riding an unsuitable horse with people making me feel guilty about selling it as my confidence slowly melted away. There are other horses out there where you could be riding and enjoying right now.
I would put this horse in full training, have someone work with this horse on the ground and under saddle, and work with you. Then I would listen to that professional about if this horse was a good match for you.
And I say this, not to be mean, but because if it’s not what you thought it would be and it’s not what you want, it’s your life and your money and your enjoyment and there should be no stigma or pressure to say “this wasn’t what I thought I had bought” and moving on. It changed my life when someone looked at me and said “you know, there are easier horses out there.”
If you’re happy with your journey then just ignore me.
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I appreciate the compassionate frankness - I’ve thought long and hard about whether to sell her and had a long heart to heart with my/her trainer about it but the professionals I’ve worked with have said that she is a good match and just needs continued work, which we are doing.
It’s not an ideal situation, and it’s not what I wanted to do with my first horse, but ultimately, she checks a lot of other boxes that were hard to find after months and months of searching and that makes it worth it to me to put the work in, not just the bond. She’s very brave about things most horses would spook at and I feel safe with her - birds have flown into lights, cinderblock sized chunks of snow have fallen off the metal roof, construction equipment has revved up, etc while I was on her and she didn’t even flinch - and she’s very gentle, incredibly willing, great movement under saddle, not mareish, very responsive to cues the first time I ask which I love, ridiculously smart, wonderful for the vet/farrier, has a slow comfortable trot (I feel a little overwhelmed on horses with a super fast/rough trot), and quite well put together. I also can’t afford to swap horses, and most importantly - I feel a sense of responsibility for the whole thing. It’s hard to sell a horse like that, at least in my area, and if she went back to the sales barn, it would be typical for her to then go directly to auction instead of them trying to sell her again. For better or worse she’s my horse and I have to do right by her.
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I understand. I took on a green but safe lease horse with many good qualities but in the first year I managed to make her ring sour and balky even on the trails. It was 100% my fault for things I did without trainer oversight, and I felt I needed to fix what I broke. It took much longer than I expected and there are still holes, but I have learned so much and done many things I never knew existed at the start. So I have no regrets at all.
It turned out that I needed to become a different rider and horse person. Maresy never did these things with my trainer, only with me
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My personal opinion is that we are very unlikely to become different riders. Better? Sure. And can my trainer put enough rides on an unsuitable horse so I can get around? Yes! But I will never be a rider who loves a hot horse and I will always spazz out and take my leg off so while I just strongly advocated for a pro they can sometimes do so much. That horse moved on and is loving its new life w a rider who giggles when it turns drama Llama.
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We become different riders when we reassess our priorities and skills from the ground up and become horse people rather than just riders. That may mean giving up some immediate goals we thought we had for this horse
I agree that some specific things like courage to ride out a bronc can be pretty much impossible to develop in adulthood
But we can learn to predict read and manage a horse so those big reactions “out of nowhere” don’t happen. Because they aren’t out of nowhere.
At a certain point only you can fix your relationship with your horse. Sometimes it’s an obvious bad match. But my reading of this situation is that OP unwittingly created the unwanted behavior by following “common sense” advice, which often is the case. OP now needs to learn to read her horse to fix this and ignore common sense and trust her actual reading of the horse
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Do please continue with the updates. I’m very curious to hear how things progress now she is on a normal, not a racehorse, diet.
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Mini-update as of getting home today, because even though I just updated I’m very proud of her: we walked all the way to the arena and back! There were some long pauses but she’s coming along. She even showed interest in going into the barn so we walked in there and then turned around and went back to her paddock. Been doing hand grazing with her every time so that she associates leaving her paddock with good exciting things. Hung out with her for a little while once she was turned out again and let her and her geriatric buddy follow me around. Here she is enjoying a rare balmy day in the afternoon light. (Her neck isn’t that short, I promise - she also usually doesn’t look so quarter horsey, lol - but pretty lighting so I had to share).
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At risk of being accused of elitism, yet again, we have never regretted seeking the opinion of a VERY experienced pro, who can probably pinpoint the issue in a few minutes and suggest an efficient plan.
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