Advice and tips on working with my very nervous first horse? (Update #12: Great news at last!)

You’ve gotten a lot of good advice already. But something I would just add is the importance of prioritizing routine and habit. It’s easy to get caught up on the moment-to-moment progress you are (or aren’t) making with different training approaches. And when you’re so invested in the moment, you may want to try throwing every possible thing at the wall to see what sticks, and to continuously go back to the drawing board and try new things. But I just want to stress how counterproductive that can be. Even if you are doing something the “wrong” way, as long as you are consistently wrong, your horse actually has a chance to learn what you want. There are a lot of roads that lead to Rome! But if you second guess yourself and repeatedly double back, you’ll never get there. BTW, this isn’t related to anything you’ve said in your posts, it’s just advice that I know I would have wanted to hear when in your position.

But there is one thing I’ll say that is related to things you may have insinuated in your posts. Don’t drop your standards for this horse. Horses have an uncanny way of living up to—or down to—your expectations. Of course it’s important to investigate any sources of pain that you can fix. But try to be careful you don’t cling to a narrative that gives you permission to overlook problems you should absolutely be able to work through. FWIW, in my personal experience, I think I misinterpreted a piece of horsemanship wisdom “reward the slightest try,” by taking it to mean, “reward generously even the most half-assed efforts.” Compromising and accommodating quirky or anxious behavior does not end up helping the problem at all. Part of being clear and consistent is not compromising, and that clarity and consistency is really important to establishing the habits that are prerequisites to making a calm, confident horse!

12 Likes

You’ve already gotten a lot of advice on addressing potential physical issues related to riding and the herd sourness.

But this stood out to me as a huge red flag that this horse has the numbers of the people who handle her on a daily basis. It is not unreasonable to expect an adult horse to be halter broke enough to lead out to (presumably) turnout ever morning without major issues. And “coaxing” -aka bribing - a horse to accomplish such a basic task is a horrible idea. It’s like using feed or treats to lure a horse into a trailer. It might work with a highly food-motivated horse in a low-stress situation, but it doesn’t train the horse at all.

I’m with @findeight that both the horse and the barn sound unsuitable for such a novice horse owner. We don’t say that to be cruel but because we don’t want you and/or the horse to get hurt.

10 Likes

At the risk of drawing all sorts of ire from all sorts of people reading this, let me comment on a few things…

  1. We ride racehorses in aisles and shedrows in barns at the track. This is not a new thing and I think it’s important to realize that though @hemitheconyxcaudicinctus didn’t ride her in the aisle, it’s not as earth shattering to think that the mare MIGHT have been ridden in a place not dissimilar in her life. I have jogged in a shedrow at Santa Anita years ago and my helmet was pinging off the sprinkler pipe nearly every stride. What is “right” in the world is not a constant through all disciplines. I know I am careful with my own horses but the boundaries that exist in ALL the disciplines and farms I have worked and ridden in in my life, have shown me that there are MANY ways to ride “correctly.”

  2. @hemitheconyxcaudicinctus I applaud you for allowing this mare to feel like you are allowing her her moments to check things out, but at some point as others have said, you need to push her on past these moments and explain that when you are in ‘work’ mode, your commands are the instruction and that she needs to learn to trust in the fact that you will only ask her to do things that she can handle. That said, set her and you up for success by asking for small steps of progress on this journey. Step over one rail in the ring, not 4 the first time…or the like. But at this moment you need to take back some, not all, of the leadership role. And she knows how to listen to humans, so remind her that this is her role. Because we don’t ever really want nor should we get a democratic relationship with a 1000lb flight animal. Our instructions need to rank above their instincts for real reasons.

  3. Ask the vet to do a neuro exam too. It’s by far the least expensive problem when compared to complex lamenesses.

  4. If you’re committed to keeping and working with this horse, ALL of us don’t matter. Your journey and your enjoyment of it matter most. So please find your core group of people who support this venture and can give you reassuring advice + cheer for your successes, and stay within that group. I am not suggesting to insulate yourself from those with solid advice, but the naysayers are not helping you at this point. If you want to keep seeing their thoughts, that’s fine and your own choice. But you have made your choice and so own it and march forward. You absolutely can improve yourself and this horse with the right guidance and mind set. I’ve been in your shoes and it is really important to hold fast to your goals that you set and be determined to get there. Of course they need to be attainable, but set small goals one month at a time and you should be ok.

Thank you for being willing to share your story and I wish you NOTHING but the gratification of enjoying time with your red headed mare every day.

Best,

Emily

29 Likes

I’m really curious about those who have been recommending in this thread that the OP needs to be at a barn where there are other people riding while she works her horse.

Have you always been at barns where there’s consistently someone else to ride with?

Perhaps my experience is abnormal, but in all my years of boarding at different barns, I have almost always ended up riding alone. If anything, the other boarders usually make an effort to spread themselves out so that everyone can have arena time to themselves.

If I decided that I needed to be at a barn where I could only ride while others were around, I’d probably end up at a lesson barn (I.e. a barn primarily focused on giving group lessons in as many time slots as possible), and even then they might not allow boarders to ride during lessons.

If anything, my problem with various horses has been that they get TOO used to being ridden alone, and have their minds blown when they do end up being ridden around a bunch of horses (so with a young horse, I took the horse on outings to just hang around local horse shows to get used to the number of horses, etc.).

Maybe I’ve been really lucky with the types of horses I’ve worked with, but none absolutely needed to have other horses around while working them at home. Even the herd bound ones seemed aware enough that they weren’t completely alone on the property and quickly settled into a routine, as long as I didn’t press for too much too fast.

7 Likes

I read some of the posts and one thing that caught my attention was at the sale you were told this was a ‘4H kids show horse’. This says to me that the horse’s mind has been ‘blown’ and the anxiety and stress on this horse was from too much arena riding, drilling, and ground work to death. If this was my horse, I would get her OUT of the arena and give her easy trail riding so she bonds with you. If you can get a steady trail horse to accompany you that would be helpful, otherwise start slow, stay close to barn/familiar area and gradually as she gains confidence increase area/distance. If she won’t trail ride, start by leading her on a trail ride, you want this mare to bond with you and trust you. You want her to enjoy herself which clearly she is not with arena work. Another thing to check is to make sure ‘insects’ are not driving her nuts, some horses are overreactive to bugs and biting insects on their bellies, under jawline.

1 Like

I missed some of the later posts and sounds like you are getting her out and she is enjoying her outings with you. I just saw the photo and she looks QH to me, the forearms are broader than a TB’s. The hindquarter too is ‘dropped’ don’t know how to describe it but most TB’s have a higher lifted butt LOL. She could be 1/2 TB, but sounds like she is not registered, as QH / TB cross can be registered in the Appendix section of the QH registry.

Or else she was never a kids 4H and the entire backstory is untrue. My money is on that.

17 Likes

Update 5

Okay, so I got in touch with the vet and she’s hopefully coming out to look at her on the 7th. She is doing a physical, pulling blood for the Cornell multiplex Lyme test, and possibly doing a chiro adjustment if needed. Looking back (so to speak), I think the pain recontextualizes a lot of her behaviors - while I think a lot of the dancing/inability to stay still at the mounting block that we initially experienced was related to separation anxiety, I’m wondering if that + the reluctance to enter the arena were because she knew I’d get on and having weight come down on her back hurt.

I have a dressage whip (technically a pig whip, so it has a bright attention drawing tassel) to use as an extension of my arm now, and I’ve found that a very light taptaptap like I’m touching her with my finger on her hindquarters (not hitting, literally just touching it to her skin) cues her to go forward too.

We’re going into the arena and working now, still with the door open. Been doing some different pole exercises, nothing mounted. She was pretty fresh and pushy today which was disconcerting; I think it was first heat of the yr related (although still unacceptable obviously) based on the fact that while she’s no longer spraying as much she’s still definitely in season and was extremely flinchy/touchy about one flank in a way consistent with mittelschmerz. It was demoralizing but I’m trying to continue focusing on the positives - for instance, yesterday when I stepped into her paddock she came trotting up to me from the other side of the field instead of her usual ambling walk - and keep remembering that she and I have all the time in the world and there’s no ‘rush’, especially because I’m still able to ride in weekly lessons.

7 Likes

Yeah I think they were just full of it lol.

1 Like

I think your horse trotting over to see you in her paddock sounds like a huge step forward in your relationship. Very positive!

14 Likes

I am with the poster who said that you need to assume a leadership role immediately. The barn hands should not be expected to molly-coddle a horse just to take it to the turnout pen. You molly-coddling her about simple things is making it really confusing for your poor horse, who is likely being told “get up here NOW” by the barn hands when she balks (which is the right thing to do, for leading manners), and your mare goes “but but but I can do this with [owner]!!”

I’m ok not pushing her beyond a reasonable threshold while leading her further from the barn, but basic leading manners MUST be installed, stat. Pushyness should be dealt with swiftly, or this horse will eventually hurt you, even by accident.

I want to say - submissive/non-assertive owners do not click with lots of horses. A horse who will assume a leadership role will take over, and quickly.

I wish you continued success with this mare, but I caution you to set a reasonable time table. If, in a year, you haven’t made substantial progress - move on.

7 Likes

Update 6: Tellington Touch Begins, Best Day Yet, Wind Panic

Much to share with this update. First, the great: yesterday we had an amazing day. She led like a champ back and forth a bunch of times, was very brave about the wind, and I tried some of the basic circular Linda Tellington touches on her neck. I did that while I was in her paddock so she could decide when she’d had enough and leave if it got to be too much, so what we ended up doing is I would do the touches on her neck for a little bit, she’d walk in a circle, and then come back and stand with her neck directly in front of me for more. The biggest victory of the day is that they WORKED: I got four huge yawns out of her while I was massaging her neck. When it was time to get her halter I went to the gate and as soon as she saw me pick up her lead rope she came running at a fast trot to join me - she definitely seems to enjoy her walkies. I also opened the barn doors and stood inside with her on a loose lead and gave her the option of coming inside to explore (it was empty, zero other horses) and she did choose to join me and sniff around on her own accord without signs of anxiety! It was only for a few moments before she decided it was a little scary so we left again, but it felt really big that she felt confident enough to willingly go into the barn alone, even for a few moments.

Re: connection, it’s always been this way but I feel like I should mention that I’m lucky in that a lot of the stuff the early Warwick Schiller videos focus on building seem to already be the case with her - I have her attention as soon as I’m driving down the drive, as she even recognizes my car and sometimes whinnies at it. I was noticing that when I got out of the car she was at the edge of the fence some 50 yards away already watching me with her ears pricked. Very endearing of her.

Her balance is also getting better when I am picking her front hooves, but we have a while to go. It’s interesting to me that her balance is so, so much better with her hinds. She’s also much better about picking them up, which I think is because feeling off-balance is a little stressful for her with the forelegs. All I have to do is tap her inner thigh twice and she picks up her hind feet and holds them in the air for me - never known a horse to be that good about it as long as I’ve been around them, and I’m hoping that once she’s better balanced that willingness will translate to a similar ‘trick’ with her forelegs too.

Now the negative: on Thursday? Wednesday? we had extremely high winds and a stablehand took her pasture buddy in before her. Although there were still 5 other horses in the adjacent/fence-sharing paddocks, she panicked very badly once we were on the way to the barn and was trotting/briefly cantering in circles around me on the lead. Fortunately she was very mindful of where I was in space but I’ve never seen her so upset. What should I do in a situation like that?

Every single horse in the world will blow up in hand given the right circumstances. My mare is as broke and ground skills as they go, but about half a dozen times a year she will blow up in hand. For her, it’s a sign she needs a good buck n run turnout with a buddy. Her trigger is almost always other horses cavorting. You just need to stay safe and not get trampled. Circling round you is OK. Standing still is Ok. I can usually muscle my mare past triggers now.

High winds are legitimately worrying to horses. There were record breaking tornados and line storms all down the center of the USA yesterday. Horses can tell when a storm is coming. Most horses are wired and spooky in high wind. We don’t get wind often but I don’t even take my mare out if it’s windy. She’s super attuned to falling branches in the forest. Once I recall giving her turnout in the wind and she wouldn’t even go back into the arena closer to the trees.

As far as picking up feet many horses find hinds easier to pick up than front especially if they have any soreness behind. After all they can easily rest a hind toe but rarely a front toe. I would see a marked discrepancy as showing she’s a good girl that knows what you want but it’s really uncomfortable to shift her weight back and lift a front.

7 Likes

Yeah, I’m thinking that might be part of it too given that before I stopped riding bc back pain/restarting groundwork she was a little heavy on the forehand and she does have the gluteal soreness.

Re: wind - she’s usually a very brave girl about it, but you can definitely tell when it’s windy and I don’t blame her, especially as someone with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder from surviving a tornado impact at a young age, lol. My BO says he grew up being told horses ‘hear voices in the wind’. You can definitely tell when it’s windy before you even get out of the car just watching the racehorses in their paddocks.

How does one move a horse forward and toward a location when they’re circling? She was much calmer once she was in the barn but I had to have help.

If you had to have help at this stage, then accept the help and be very grateful you weren’t alone. What did the other person do?

For me part of being able to muscle my mare past triggers when she blows up is keeping my hand up and out, so I don’t pull her on top of me or make her circle rather than half half. And marching on. And not letting her get in front of me. Showing my own shoulders back head up forward marching authority. Always a rope halter obviously.

Some Western trainers say to send the horse in circles or to “disengage the hind end.” That always seems to work on videos. But my mare has had enough basic dressage training that she can trot and canter shoulder in around you without losing balance. And it winds her up more and she can buck and even do that buck behind strike out in front thing.

Other horse I’m working with will rear under stress, mostly run backwards away from me and then rear. That’s harder to deal with. I try to stay within the edge of her comfort zone to reduce the blowups.

Wind brings a million new smells and also alerts predators to the horses. And out on the range they need to outrun tornados. Many domestic horses die in tornados but my guess is not so many feral horses since they can move miles and miles out of the way.

One calm summer evening my mare halted on the trail ears forward. Before I could even put my leg on a very large branch fell on the trail about 20 feet ahead. I realized she could hear the microcracks of the branch starting to fall that I couldn’t.

Another time we were halted on the rail in the outdoor arena and I saw a dead tree start to fall away from us. We weren’t in any danger but I knew we were going to teleport. I sat in and up, dropped my heels and carried my hands. Before the tree hit the ground we were on the other side of the arena. Both times maresy was sure she saved our lives. We’ve also had trees fall on the barn.

The last thing I want to do is tell her to disregard falling trees because they are legitimately dangerous in our park and she is way better at hearing and responding than I am. Part of her being a good trail horse is being able to recognize real dangers. So I don’t take her out in high wind because I know she is hearing things crack and break that are potentially really dangerous and our agreement is that I will not make her do dangerous things.

Obviously this would be different on the high prairie with constant wind and no trees.

3 Likes

Well that’s entirely reasonable even without the high wind. You don’t leave one horse in a two horse field.
Leading you never ever let the horse get to the end of the lead where it can circle around you. This is how you get cow kicked or struck. It’s also incredibly easy for them from there to pull away (and then double barrel you), or get a leg over the rope. You stay at the shoulder, with an elbow in the shoulder if need be, and sharply correct any surges forward with a pull back and in towards you. You walk forward and keep going until you get to an area of safety. If you need to circle sharply to get control that’s a last resort (they often bolt the last turn) but they can’t without you at the shoulder pivoting them. If you can’t hold this stance with a halter you need a rope halter or a chain.

11 Likes

Warwick Schiller often utilizes the “crab walk” for those sorts of situations

2 Likes

Imagine you don’t want to hear this experience based opinion any more then my last but…you know nothing about this horses past history and are taking some concerning risks working around this mare on the ground.

CB points out the “safety zone” at the shoulder where you are out of bite range, front leg strikes, cow kicks, able to maintain better control of the horses body and are less likely to get knocked down and/or run over. This is standard practice everywhere from show barn in all disciplines to 4H livestock handling to race tracks. Because it keeps the handler SAFE. Also reduces the chance of a loose horse which keeps the horse SAFE. Yes, accidents still happen but why not reduce the risk of serious harm that could have been, at least, mitigated if not avoided completely by simply practicing safe horse handling?

Being around a loose horse with no halter and lead in a smaller enclosure increases the risk of a bad experience. Even in a bigger enclosure, like an arena or pasture, loose horse can knock you down and run over you. You should never just walk in and fool around without simply putting a halter and lead on and minding where you stand.

Everything said here goes triple with new horses and triple again with no history on the horses past. They can hurt hurt you. And will. Without intent, just too big, quick and easily startled.

Beware the “ s/he never did that before” with new horse with unknown history BS because its just that. BS. They have no idea and ANY horse can get upset or scared.

11 Likes

The circling spooks come on quickly. As in, no way to tell they are about to happen.

1 Like

The winds are BAD today. And for that reason, I didn’t hesitate to put a chain on my guy who is normally a very good boy. As others have stated, even the best out there have their blow-ups.

I would so much rather put the chain on and not have to touch it than have regrets later about “why didn’t I have the chain.” Because the beauty of the chain lead rope is, if you don’t need it, you don’t need to touch it. If the horse makes a bad life choice then the chain is there to remind him there are better choices and gives the handler leverage to maintain best leading practices.

OP, if you haven’t used a chain lead rope before, do take a peak at a video or two

An inappropriately applied chain lead rope can be hazardous.

4 Likes