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Advice for a horse with an *interesting* lead change

Hunter/Jumper
#1

I recently purchased a horse that is unlike the type I normally buy. He is a 9yo, that was imported two years ago and has since sat and not done much at all. No show record, very little training, some very bad training to add in. He is very pretty, kind, jumps nicely, has a huge step, and will take a piece of the hack.

When I tried him, the R->L change was right there, hardly even an ask. The L->R I had to school on once, and then no problem.

I took him immediately to a show at which we played around in the 2’6 and 2’9 modified adults. Sometimes the lead change was easy as can be, and others he simply did nothing, no even recognition that anything was supposed to be happening.

He’s now been home one month. Every single ride the lead change starts off rough/miss/unbalanced, and then somewhere in to a ride it clicks and they’re flawless. We don’t drill them, and he does them best off a counter canter, not across the diagonal.

This one is a head scratcher for me. I’ve had lots of horses with tough lead changes that I’ve been able to fix/clean up, but never one where the lead change is very very easy, but only after it’s very very hard.

I know I’ve only had him a month, and I need to give it time. I was curious if any others have had this experience and have any thoughts or guidance. Of note, we tried utilizing a pole on the ground and he seemed to come completely undone.

Video with lead changes if useful. They have gotten easier/cleaner than this after they are not easy or clean (each ride):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUu1BaDnESA

#2

I bet he just isn’t used to the way you ask for changes. In the video, you can tell he knows he has to do something and then he does. Bet if you don’t worry about it, they will get easier. Nevertheless, this Is always an article that is good to read for a refresher on changes. And he is adorable!! Good luck with him!

https://www.southernstates.com/articles/the-key-to-lead-changes.aspx

#3

My guess is being an import when he was taught changes he was kept more packaged and together through his changes so it could take a while to adjust to doing “hunter changes”. During each lead change in the video he gets hollow and runs forward before doing the change. I think if you can keep him more connected through his back and pushing from behind the lead changes will get easier. Have you tried a gentle half halt to set him up for the change? I realize that as a hunter it will need to become auto at some point down the road but a half halt to setup and accomplish a clean change will be better than running through the change and needing to use your crop to accomplish it.

The other thing to remember is that it could improve on its own with strength and fitness. If he has done next to nothing over the past couple years it might be difficult for him to get his hind end under himself and carry himself properly to be able to do clean changes until he gets stronger. I would be careful about over schooling the change right now as he could end up just starting to anticipate and run through it.

Take my advice with a grain of salt, I am an amateur rider but have had pretty good luck with putting solid changes on my horses. This is me playing with changes on my current horse a 7 year old warmblood gelding who is actually my hunter: successfully showed in the 3’3 Junior Amateurs this year and will move up to 3’6 next year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiE1N5Gy5ZI .

Your new guy is adorable and I am sure you will have lots of fun with him.

4 Likes
#4

I fully agree with this - wouldn’t be worried at all. He looks like a long horse with a long back - he is currently running through the change like a hollow arrow. He’s staying straight - which is excellent and step one, however, he needs to be rounder so he can push off properly. He just looks like he’s weak behind and needs more conditioning. I would not school changes until he’s had 6 weeks of hills/cavalettis/poles under his belt…but I’m definitely the conservative type. I wouldn’t want him to get anxiety over it. I’ve had to fix that type before and it’s challenging.

On a side note - he’s lovely :slight_smile:

1 Like
#5

I agree with what everyone else is saying…and if I am understanding your post correctly, he is only recently coming back into work. That tells me that he needs a lot more conditioning and strength, which is likely why the lead changes are coming and going. If it were me, I would spend the time putting this boy into a solid fitness program and getting him muscled up before doing any jumping and lead changes. Otherwise, you are just asking for an injury.

3 Likes
#6

I think he just needs a little more help this direction, as this change is obviously the harder one for him. When you put your outside leg on for the change, he just hollows out and gets quick. You seem to kind of allow it, and then keep asking for the change with the leg until he gives it to you. That improper reaction from him is probably an easier response for him than balancing, shifting his weight, and doing a lead change. I would work on strength building as others have noted but also just ride the change with more help in mind right from the start this direction. Keep more of a feel of his mouth, expect him to hollow and get quick and be ready for that, etc. Make him stay balanced, slow, and methodical. If you just approach the change that way, especially since you’ve noted that if you school them he gets better, I would bet that in a couple months you can give less and less help and he’ll have them.

It’s like he’s saying “naaaahhh that’s hard and I’m weak” and then when you finally school them and say “Sorry bud we gotta do this” he’s like “Okay, fine,” and then realizes it’s not that hard to begin with. Don’t keep giving him the benefit of the doubt, it’s just reinforcing the bad habits he’s doing right now. Instead, for a time, really help him through the change so he builds the habit of a balanced, strong, proper change, and then you can slowly phase out having to set him up and balance him so much.

#7

I think he just needs to get stronger so that he can really get straight into your outside rein and sit down a little in the half halt rather than running and diving into the change once you give him a strong enough boot with your outside leg. The good news is he still completes the change even though he’s flat and wanting to dive in. I’d bet he changes better out of the counter canter because you’ve got him more collected and on the outside rein n the counter canter already.

1 Like
#8

As other posters have said, time and muscling will help. But it sounds like he doesn’t understand what a lead change is, and what is being requested. From the video, he clearly knows “something” is about to be asked and is athletic enough that the change happens once he is warmed up and supple. But I suspect he doesn’t know - hey, this human is asking for a lead change and I know how to do one. With time, he will understand the “exercise” and aids, but I would just treat him like a baby horse with a decent instinct for the change, but bearing in mind that a previous rider may have fried him a bit by schooling it without establishing a good foundation.

That being said, I also knew a horse years ago who had jumped around the upper levels as an event horse, and yet would “green” up at the beginning of just about every jump school. He would trot into a warm up fence like a 4 year old that had jumped once in his whole life…then quite quickly he would be a jumping machine carting my very amateur just returning to jumping self over courses. He was so cool, but quirky.

#9

Fully agree with this, and @Nickelodian , he’s really, really cute. Have you ever tried working on changes with him using a ground rail heading into the corner and asking him for the change over the rail? I’ve found sometimes with the greenies, it helps to keep them up and a little lighter on their front ends and helps them to figure out the change without running and getting hollow.

#10

She said he came “completely undone” with the pole on the ground. That is too bad because I was going to suggest that exercise John French supposedly recommends which is a pole, one stride, and another pole to be cantered whilst turning in new direction. I have not been able to try it but I think it sounds genius!

#11

I rode in a John French clinic a few years ago, and he used a bounce (not a one stride) with us, set up close to the rail across the middle. We cantered in on one lead, over the bounce while asking for the new direction, and poof a lead change, both directions. I’m going to have to remember to use that again!

2 Likes
#12

A bounce! Thank you! It makes so much sense to me!

#13

I think you’re very much on to something here. When I got him he was incredibly resistant to the outside rein. That is likely one of our big missing pieces as when I push him there he wanted to resist. That has already I proved significantly.

I probably gave the the wrong impression. He was being ridden regularly (not like turned out) just not in full training, not in a program, not being ridden correctly. Still needs the right muscling and body condition, but he’s not just completely out of shape either.

I actually like the bounce pole idea, but maybe on a figure 8 or straight away, not on the diagonal. Someone really fried him on that exercise.

And thanks for the compliments! The good news is that over the last month with learning how to find the right jump and not the wrong one, his style has improved significantly. When I bought him I thought a 3’ type horse, but now with where he is I could definitely see in in the a/o ring. He’s incredibly fun to ride, and super sweet. A resale so who knows how long he’ll be around, but I’m really enjoying him.

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#14

If he’s getting them in the ring like that - I wouldn’t school them at home. Slow hill work would be great for this guy. If anything when schooling just halt at the end of the lines. One tip in the ring if you stay right of center down the lines headed to a left turn, the lead change sets up much better (and often horses will just land the left lead). Have fun with him.

#15

He’s off balance and disconnected in the video. You’re landing and he’s on the forehand then cutting the turn. You need to land, get him back, keep him in a frame, take him out off the inside leg into the outside rein (straight!!), then ask with the new outside leg. Actually the change will probably just happen. He’s above the bridle going into the corner…thus not using his back/hind end underneath him.

Does he do haunch in and haunches out? Counter canter? All those are the buttons/tools you need. I agree fitness is also a big issue. Cute horse!

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#16

Yeah. IMO his canter isn’t really there yet. Had half a dozen or so like that when I got them over the years. Just never been allowed to independently move forward, micro managed every step so they just never learned to relax into it and flow which is what gets you that clean and easy change. And think everything I ever got on has been stronger right to left then left to right simply because we handle them from the left side from day one, that can be schooled out but not overnight.

He seems a nice mover but moves a little stabby in a few places, to me he’s just tense in the back and unfit so after only a month and with a history of some unfortunate training, I don’t think this is going to be a lasting issue. It took time to screw him up and it will take time to right the wrongs and get him to relax into the good canter he shows signs of and that alone should smooth out your lead change.

Like to see more video in about 8 weeks.

#17

A clinician I rode with had us school the changes doing a half-turn reverse into the rail.

We started by cantered slightly off the rail (not quite the quarter line), then pushing the horse further off the rail (so basically moving over until you are at the quarter line), transitioning to the walk, turning towards the rail, and then you pick up the canter from the walk immediately while your horse is walking straight towards the rail. This teaches them to rock back for the canter depart.

You then do that same pattern but you ask for the change after you have “leg-yielded” (it doesn’t have to be an actual leg yield, just moving over off your leg) to the quarter line but on the straight line before you turn once. Again turning into the rail after the change. If your horse doesn’t get a clean change on the straight line then you walk, turn towards the rail, and pick up the new lead while walking towards the rail. I can’t remember, but I think even if your horse gets the lead in front but not behind she wanted you to come back to the walk.

The OTTB event horse I was riding didn’t have lead changes and this exercise really helped it click with her. It was not pretty the first few times but It seemed like an exercise that she was able to easily take-away something, because she very much improved at it the following day when it was repeated and is now more consistent in her changes. My warmblood jumper has beautiful changes and this just helped him stay elevated and rhythmic through the change (and more balanced on his hind end through the corner). I think you could easily do this exercise and then slowly soften your aids and seat to be more conducive to the hunter ring style. The clinician had the hunter/eq kids do it as well.

Hope the description made sense! Good luck. Also, nice horse!

2 Likes
#18

This is how I learned also (regardless of what method one uses to ask for a change). So the horse doesn’t learn how not to do a lead change (or to skip a change or do late changes), and also to use the downward transition to bring them back into balance, instead of becoming more undone at the canter.

Agreed with everyone saying to work on horse’s balance and quality/strength of canter. He’s not between the leg and the hand. If the horse can travel from its hind end, through its back and stay connected on landing, seems like the change will sort itself out (and so will the jumps). I would probably not school them for a little while, until the horse gets a stronger/more together canter, because I don’t want the horse to think they are difficult.

Develop a good canter first, with the horse connected from leg to hand, and balanced, THEN float the reins for the hunters, after the canter has been established. The other way, where one tries to be “quiet” on the horse before the horse travels under itself I think tends towards a disconnected horse and less effective rider. IMO, ride the horse more like an equitation horse at first; have him step under, in balance, working from behind every single step. It’ll end up easier to ride him more hunter-y when he gets the canter rhythm/balance down and you can ride him off the leg.

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#19

I agree that to teach the half halt you want, you need to be able to do a good walk transition and good leg trolls. I never teach one changes by trot transitions—good way to screw it up and teach the skip change instead.

For one that dives in like this, I practice either a rollback or diagonal with transition to the walk, leg yield to the rail get them into the outside rein, then canter from the walk. Next step is a serpentine with walk transition at X with changing the bend through the walk. Using a short turn there can help reinforce the sit for the downward transition. Once you get him off your inside leg into the new outside rein, I’d bet his change will become pretty automatic given where he is now. But the hole missing is the leg yield and half halt skill done correctly.

#20

Nothing like leg trolls to sharpen them up…:lol:

But, seriously folks…my late trainer imported a lot of 5-7 year old WBs every year. Enough to debunk the stereotype that all Europeans school extensive Dressage into their average quality horses identified early as destined for sale to the low to mid priced North American market. No, they don’t. It’s anything to get them sold like any other dealer with too many horses they don’t want to keep and not enough time. Just because they don’t buck you off , don’t bolt and run off with you and can get around a simple 4’ course does not mean they have been taught what they should have been taught.

Nothing like getting one over here that has been jumping solid 4’ + courses and it A) won’t even go within 10’ of a flower box let alone jump it and B) lacks enough brakes and steering to do anything about it.

They school only enough to get them broke and around a course choosing to spend their time developing scopier, more talented animals with potential to command another zero in the sales price. Many who buy recent imports are disappointed in the level of training installed, or not installed. Some lack the skills to finish up those horses so they sit. Suspect this one disappointed, got some crappy training trying to fix him instead of teaching him how and he got stuck on a back burner.

Something I noticed with many of them is they were fine in a small ring but totally rudderless in a large one. Without the rail a few strides away to guide them and give a visual to stay straight? Clueless. Many over there don’t have the spacious arenas we are used to so the horses just never are asked to work independent of a rail and never took more then a dozen or so strides away from it.

Awful lot of them really have no idea what the outside rein is either In other words, despite age and getting around the jumps, they are pretty dam green. Spacious turn out is also not so common over there in the big yards handling hundreds of horses, some don’t have any and, IMO, that doesn’t help develop independent balance and equal coordination on both sides.

Id approach this one as physically and mentally Green who didn’t get the consistent regular training program he needed. Make your decisions based on that theory and go from there. Get him out, ride him out, hit the flatwork and be patient. There is much he just has never been taught. Mostly how to canter.

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