deleting. no pictures will be offered and I will not be at the horse show. Not worth it to me. Sorry to those who e-mailed and asked for pictures.
Response to Free Pictures…
I just would like to put my two cents in regarding photographers coming in to offer ‘free’ photos at horse shows that already have ‘Official Photographers’. We, as Officials, spend alot of time, effort and money getting to these shows to offer professional photography to the riders. We have travel expenses, assistants, marketing, advertising, web space…the list goes on and on. I personally have invested so much this last year into my business, and to see that someone wants to come in and offer free photos to my potential clients is quite honestly just not right. Perhaps people like this are new to the industry and trying to gain experience and a client base (or build a portfolio), but do it with an honest work ethic and please don’t undermine the people who have been there for years and already invested their lives into their careers. If you want to give away free photos, do it when you have shows of your own.
I"ll Second Amy. . . . You must check in with the Official photographer. QUite often a contract is held stating that no other ‘professional’ may shoot on the weekend with out the OP or Show committee’s approval…
Us pro’s work hard at building our business and provide a service to the show and the competitors.
I don’t know that that is the way to win friends and influence people
Here is the thing and I will send Amy an e-mail also (she e-mailed and called me, but I could not anwser at the time). I am doing this with no compensation, I do not expect to get paid (or else I would never have posted this as it is against forum rules). I am doing this for my own experience as I have never shot any dressage before. I thought it would have been nice to offer pictures that I would have taken to the people in them. Now, they will probably not be as good as Amy’s so I really don’t feel as if I would be taking any business away from her. I am sure not everybody not attending would know about this (nobody has contacted me yet anyways, but that won’t stop me from going and shooting on my own for my own experience). I obviously am using my own gas to get to and from the horse show but I don’t intend to be compensated for anything. I am not getting pictures printed, I am e-mailing them so I have no expenses from that. Now if it is SUCH a big deal to you that I not come, I won’t, as I have other things to do this weekend. I was making time to head down to the horse show so again, I could gain experience shooting a discipline I have never shot. I felt it would be nice as a long time member of this BB to offer pictures to those “friends” who has posted here aswell. I am not going to the dressage show as a professional (and I wouldn’t call myself a full professional as I still have a lot to learn), I am going to the show as somebody who wants to learn more about shooting a discipline that I am not accustom to. Now again, if you have a problem with this, I will not go at all, though I think by actually banning me from the horse show so I can take pictures and then give them away for free (that I am using my own money, talent, and time for!) is insane. I will e-mail this to you as well.
I think it is absurd to discourage any aspiring photographer from taking pictures at a show and doing whatever she wants with them - especially if she is not asking for money. I have been to several shows where we have relied on the show photographer for pictures and the photos just weren’t good at all… The one’s “mom and dad” took with their rinky dink camera were always better. I’ve never heard about a wedding where you weren’t allowed to bring a camera of share photos - even though there is an “official wedding photographer”.
Just my two cents…
I can understand if you are offering this service to a friend. But there are official show photographers for a reason. What you are doing is offering to take away potential customers. Free versus a fee? Wow, sign me up.
I say go and take pictures. Heck, even post pictures. Train you eye, train the timing required. But I wouldn’t advertise for a sign up sheet if YOU want to make friends and influence people.
I used to slang homemade tacos from my tackroom in between riding tests, and never did the official DogBurger Roach Coach show fud people come after me raging about undercutting their monopoly. This is America. Take the pictures. gee whiz. There’s enough for everyone
This is posted on Hali’s website. “*Hali is not the official show photographer for any of these shows. She is going on her own time to help build up her very small business and is only compensated through the photos that you buy.”
If you are going to the show to practice, to hone your timing, add to your portfolio. that’s one thing. If you approach the offical photographer and let them know your reason for being there, most will not get too upset and may even offer a tip or two. However if you post these free photos on your website and offer them for sale, that’s not what you are doing, THAT is referred to as poaching. The OP is there to do the same thing. Most shows do not pay the show photographer to be there, they are there at their very considerable expense, work long hard hours all in hopes of enough sales to make it worth while.
Yes, America is open to free enterprise, but venues have contracts with vendors, and contracts are binding.
Well in MY post what the point is that any ‘asipiring’ photographer (and yes we were ALL at that point in our careers)
Should contact the show committee,
Contact the OP.
And be open and honest- i know I have and i know other OP’s at shows have let other photographers take pictures- and often even given tips and help.
But what we DON"T like seeing is when we have a contract (and sorry it’s not ‘public’ it’s on private property- and WE’re there under contract quite often) someone sneaking around taking pictures handing out cards and giving away photos or at a very low rate. makes it hard for us (and that photographer once THEY wnat to go be a pro) make a living.
But you want to build your portfolio?? Contact the OP- offer to be an assistant for the weekend you learn a TON and get photos for your portfolio and make a great contacts in the local area.
And not every show is going to have an OP. This is why you should contact the show comittee to see if there is one. 90% of the shows i shoot at i’m not the ONLY OP- i’m one of… And often if someone comes up asking if i’m the OP and if they can shoot by me- i end up spending the whole day with them chatting it up about great angles, what i look for what they look for. I’ve done this myself when goign to shows of other breeds (arab shows etc) where i dont’ have experience- if i’m there watching a friend etc i’ll go introduce myself to the OP and have learned a TON from doing this
K
got it. no pictures.
[QUOTE=Ree;3041547]
This is posted on Hali’s website. “*Hali is not the official show photographer for any of these shows. She is going on her own time to help build up her very small business and is only compensated through the photos that you buy.”
If you are going to the show to practice, to hone your timing, add to your portfolio. that’s one thing. If you approach the offical photographer and let them know your reason for being there, most will not get too upset and may even offer a tip or two. However if you post these free photos on your website and offer them for sale, that’s not what you are doing, THAT is referred to as poaching.
.[/QUOTE]
Again, I am no longer going to the show, but what was going to happen was that I was going to take pictures and email them to whomever asked for them. No money was exchanging hands (free is free).
You may wish to take a different track
Consider visiting the show and making contact with trainers while there
Tell them that you are working on perfecting your skills and would like shoot at their barn. I am sure riders would welcome a chance to see themselves in action during a lesson. It might also gain you some insight as to what the trainer and rider are looking for in what makes for good quality work on the horse and riders part.
You can retain the photos or delete them and riders might offer you some input as to what they like in photos. By not giving away or selling the resulting (digital?) photos you are not undercutting the local pros and you are gaining some valuable “real life” experience
I take a limited number of photos at shows for my own enjoyment and fun. I might send a rider an email photo of a particularly nice photo but I certainly would not consider myself replacing a pro. I personally like mood shots that tell a story about the event and situation . I much rather have a nice candid from the stalls and barns than one in the performance ring.
( then again you have not seen me ride :o )
I personally have no interest in yet another photo of my horse across the diagonal or doing a shoulder in. If someone captured a nice candid moment or head shot, that I would enjoy.
Response to Free Pictures…
I want to clarify that I am not opposed to having someone come to a show that I am the ‘OP’ for and work on their portfolio. In fact, as someone else has mentioned, I have mentored countless aspiring photographers whom I know have full intention of taking that knowledge and furthering their career. I do not have a problem with that. If I can call them and hire them for a day rate (a very good one at that) in exchange for my mentoring sessions…great! If not…then hopefully they will be a good friend and colleague in this challenging industry. What I do have a problem with is people coming in to shoot and taking away my potential business because they are offering a free product. As I stated before, the official photographer occurs many expenses in providing this service. The obvious ones being professional equipment, gas, food and hotels. The less obvious being payroll, insurance, IT consulting for website, marketing costs to get the photos to the customers, advertising…the list goes on. While a photographer may feel that providing a free photo or two to riders because they haven’t incurred any expense in being there is a nice gesture, it is not the right thing to do to the official photographer who is there trying to make their living and incurring real costs in order to do so. We were all there at one point, trying to build our portfolio and further our photography skills. I appreciate that and am more than willing to accommodate aspiring photographers when the right channels are gone through. I have never turned down anyone who wanted to shoot at a show that I was contracted to shoot, and have always done my best to be accommodating and helpful. I pride myself on the fact that I have many younger photographers that I have taken under my wing and mentored…many of which continue to work for me now.
We closed this thread as the OP is no longer there for reference and it has become more of a discussion of general professional photography etiquette than being specifically horse-related. Some good advice has already been given for aspiring pro photographers looking to build their portfolios, etc.
Thanks!
