Advice needed, buy my lease horse or not?

[ammyhour]

I have the opportunity to purchase a horse I’ve been leasing and quite honestly, I’m so on the fence about it. I want to make sure my heart and head are in the right place and you all are so knowledgeable I want to hear if I’m crazy or not from people who don’t know me.

Horse is a 9 year old imported Hanoverian from Germany, shown a bit here in the US on the circuit and then was purchased by an ammy in the mid to high 5’s as her new hunter mount. Horse began displaying really quirky behaviors and she could not get horse around without someone stronger getting him around the course first so she sent him back down to trainers to be ridden/sold. Suspected that this horse has had these problems all along that were well hidden. Has been extensively checked by vets with no visible signs of pain.

Here I come, and fall in love with this horse but quickly realize he basically needs to go back to the basics, we’re talking flatting only and groundwork to try and work out the kinks. Horse has gotten a lot of quality time and is improving but is still quirky nonetheless. I do truly love him and am willing to put the money into training board or sending him somewhere for confidence, etc…but would only do so if I could get him for the right price and somewhat hope that he can work through this.

Horse is capable of doing the 3’3 but I wouldn’t mind never jumping above 3’ ever as I’m not as young and fearless as I once was and have no desire.

The problem, I’m not sure if this is the best idea for me in the long run and am trying to work logic over heart. He’s spooky and has a stop. It’s not a completely dirty stop (depends on the day) but a stop nonetheless and he needs a lot of confidence from his rider. He’s been manhandled over the jumps from what I’ve seen and heard, so I’m not sure if this can even be a thing where he could ever be relaxed enough. I am capable of supporting him, but I am almost having a gut feeling that there’s something wrong with his eyes deeper than a vet can see.
The barn he’s currently at isn’t the best, barely any turnout time, no grass, no room to be a horse.

He adores me as he’s gotten a lot of love and reassurance from my end. I actually just take the time to sit with him, work with him, and love on him. He’s a fancy guy, moves incredible, jumps well, and has the most comfortable gaits. He pulls things with other people (spins, spooks, stops) but does seem to try and protect me. He still hasn’t ever pulled half of the things I’ve seen him do to others, but it’s only been 5 months and we haven’t started trying to horseshow yet.

I don’t want to spend a bunch of money on chance and hope, but I am moving soon and want to take him with me if we’re meant to be a pair. I guess I just need advice and for someone outside of my circle to ask me the hard questions and give me answers I don’t want to hear. I also don’t know what to offer his owner, as im just care leasing him, she just wants him off of her bill.

Help please and thank you for reading this novel

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Can you financially and emotionally afford for him to become a big grasseating pet if, in a month’s time, all his problems reassert themselves and he has to be retired?

If the answer is YES (and not “yes but I’m eating ramen and looking wistfully at ads for other horses whilst vet sends creditors to my address”, but “sure can avocado toast!”) then go for it.

[paw]

Well, it sounds like you’re right - you’re going to have to go back to the beginning with this one to build his confidence and fill in the training holes. Sounds like he’s responding to the work you’re doing with him now, but it’s likely going to be a long journey to get him to be a completely reliable partner. Do you have the patience to take the time he needs, and the financial stability to support however long it takes?

If you are focused on getting him into the ring within a certain time frame, don’t buy him. If you can find your joy in the journey, though, you might want to consider it. Bear in mind that changing his living situation (moving) may affect his confidence for a while.

[Scribbler]

@ammyhour

I have the opportunity to purchase a horse I’ve been leasing and quite honestly, I’m so on the fence about it. I want to make sure my heart and head are in the right place and you all are so knowledgeable I want to hear if I’m crazy or not from people who don’t know me.

Horse is a 9 year old imported Hanoverian from Germany, shown a bit here in the US on the circuit and then was purchased by an ammy in the mid to high 5’s as her new hunter mount. Horse began displaying really quirky behaviors and she could not get horse around without someone stronger getting him around the course first so she sent him back down to trainers to be ridden/sold. Suspected that this horse has had these problems all along that were well hidden. Has been extensively checked by vets with no visible signs of pain.

Here I come, and fall in love with this horse but quickly realize he basically needs to go back to the basics, we’re talking flatting only and groundwork to try and work out the kinks. Horse has gotten a lot of quality time and is improving but is still quirky nonetheless. I do truly love him and am willing to put the money into training board or sending him somewhere for confidence, etc…but would only do so if I could get him for the right price and somewhat hope that he can work through this.

Horse is capable of doing the 3’3 but I wouldn’t mind never jumping above 3’ ever as I’m not as young and fearless as I once was and have no desire.

The problem, I’m not sure if this is the best idea for me in the long run and am trying to work logic over heart. He’s spooky and has a stop. It’s not a completely dirty stop (depends on the day) but a stop nonetheless and he needs a lot of confidence from his rider. He’s been manhandled over the jumps from what I’ve seen and heard, so I’m not sure if this can even be a thing where he could ever be relaxed enough. I am capable of supporting him, but I am almost having a gut feeling that there’s something wrong with his eyes deeper than a vet can see.
The barn he’s currently at isn’t the best, barely any turnout time, no grass, no room to be a horse.

He adores me as he’s gotten a lot of love and reassurance from my end. I actually just take the time to sit with him, work with him, and love on him. He’s a fancy guy, moves incredible, jumps well, and has the most comfortable gaits. He pulls things with other people (spins, spooks, stops) but does seem to try and protect me. He still hasn’t ever pulled half of the things I’ve seen him do to others, but it’s only been 5 months and we haven’t started trying to horseshow yet.

I don’t want to spend a bunch of money on chance and hope, but I am moving soon and want to take him with me if we’re meant to be a pair. I guess I just need advice and for someone outside of my circle to ask me the hard questions and give me answers I don’t want to hear. I also don’t know what to offer his owner, as im just care leasing him, she just wants him off of her bill.

Help please and thank you for reading this novel

Life with this horse is going to be three years of increasingly expensive vet diagnostics until you find the pain trigger that’s causing this behavior whether it’s kissing spine or C5/6 malformation or early arthritis. And then you’ll need to retire him

[Calvincrowe]

Don’t. He’s heartbreak waiting to happen. Find a horse you don’t need to worry about quirks, stops, spins and spooks. They will never completely go away. Been there…

[222orchids]

I’d pass. You have had the luxury of a peek into the future with this horse, and you know it is going to be difficult, possibly very expensive and perhaps it will never be better than it is now, even after a return to square one. Buy a horse you’ll have fun with.

[fjordmom]

Those quirks would make me pause and pause hard. As others have said, I’d pass.

Putting his quirks aside, you said you are moving and would want to take him along if you do buy him. Consider that there might be quite a bit of “normal” disruption in both your lives for a period of time. This may not be conducive to regularly and patiently working with him. Not a great plan either.

There will be other horses. You will find the right one when the time is right.

[vxf111]

This horse would have to be basically free for me to take a chance. I’d pass.

[nighthorse6]

It’s normal to want to help a horse be better or want to bring out potential. But in my experience problems like you are describing don’t go away, you only make them less noticeable. I would pass on this horse.

[Bluey]

What do you want from having horses in your life will determine what makes more sense in this situation.

Do you want to have a horse for a pet and do whatever you can do all along, maybe retraining him become a horse you can do what you do as a rider, or if it doesn’t work enjoy caring for him in whatever form that takes, even as a retired pet to play with as you find time?
If so, buy him.

Do you want a horse to follow a riding path, training you and horse and showing and going places with others that do that? Then maybe better find a horse that can expected to be good at that.
This horse, as you describe, doesn’t sound to be a sensible choice for that, is more of a questionable project horse that may or not be what you want down the years.

Life is complicated, is it, we wish we could do it all, but there is only one of us, with limited resources.
We have to choose all the time where to go, what next.
The trick to a happy life is to choose wisely, good luck that you do so.

[fivestrideline]

@ammyhour

He pulls things with other people (spins, spooks, stops) but does seem to try and protect me. He still hasn’t ever pulled half of the things I’ve seen him do to others, but it’s only been 5 months and we haven’t started trying to horseshow yet.

This is the part that makes me say a hard NOPE - 5 months is nothing, and he’s pulling things with other people still. Be honest with yourself: are you asking him to work as hard or do the same things that the “others” are? Or are you pretty forgiving and not asking for much/doing completely different things with him?

Anyways, no I would not buy this horse.

If he was FREE, and I had other horses and was ready and able to take on a retiree in case he never returns to showing or even riding, then maybe. In some ways maybe the timing could work, if you are moving where you already have contacts with a retirement/boujee pasture board place where you could kick him out for a year and then see what you have. In other ways, this is a time of upheaval and change - don’t add a horse that’s not reliable that you already think has an underlying eye or other weird issue.

Can you afford multiple horses with this one as an expensive pasture pet that may or may not come back to usefulness? Do you think the owner would take $1k or something just to get him gone?

[MissusS]

For me personally, as an adult beginner (riding for 4 years) it’s very much a No based on what you have described.

For you, based on how you have framed up your post, I feel like the answer is No as well. You have enough change coming up in your life with the move, and unless you can afford to give this horse all the time off, training, and possible veterinary care (and then still possibly end up with something that doesn’t suit your needs) it sounds like a “pass”.

There are plenty of horses out there that will make good partners for you - don’t buy someone else’s problem unless you have the time, skills, and funds to try to fix … and roll the dice that the problems only get worse.

[luvmyhackney]

I own my own farm and can afford to retire a mistake buy, I’d pass real fast on buying this one.

Sounds like a confidence killer.

[EmilyM]

I wouldn’t buy this horse. It may slowly erode at your confidence. And it will be very hard to sell. You will have this horse forever.

[2DogsFarm]

I’ve had my share of horses I refer to as my Science Projects.
They all came around, but now, after stepping waaaay back from my interest in showing, I’d pass on this horse.

You mention staying at 3’, is that Stepping Down for you?
Would you consider going even lower & possibly never moving back up?
Horse has shown you who he is.
The (putting it nicely) shenanigans he exhibits with other riders aren’t going away.

Find one you can relax in the saddle at least ,90% of the time.
Probably also best to wait until you’ve moved & the dust settles

[ammyhour]

Thank you all so much for the incredible, sound advice. This is exactly what I needed to hear.

I will continue on with him for the time I have left here and give him all I have got until then. Maybe I can throw in a suggestion to have some things looked at for his owner (eye specialist, more X-rays) and then leave in good conscience that I did what I could when I was with him.

Even for free or extremely cheap I would be wary to accept now with sound logic in my mind. Thank you all again 🩷

[NaturallyHappy]

@ammyhour

The barn he’s currently at isn’t the best, barely any turnout time, no grass, no room to be a horse.

This is the part that gives me pause about all the good advice above. Sometimes horses turn around in an environment with turnout and room to be a horse.

[findeight]

Put me in the hard pass crowd. Always boarded out and could ever only afford one horse at a time. I wanted to ride, learn specific skills and compete. While willing to care for them should they need a lengthy lay up or retire, no desire to spend my prime riding years looking at an unrideable horse. Lord knows hefty vet bills were not in the budget.

No way I can realistically take a chance with a history of issues. And never excuse signs of physical problems instead of looking at hard facts. Maybe it is this, maybe it is that but bottom line the horse cannot do it.

Only bought and leased older and doing what I was buying or leasing them to do and staying sound. Don’t buy or lease a problem if you pay to board out.

[thereadinghorse]

If you are interested, send me the name (the one he had in Germany) and I can check records here, so you could get some more info, if he had issues before he was sold to the US

[BostonHJ]

This. I read the post about the horse and thought, I might consider it if it were free. And then I would want to get my own vetting done and not rely on word of mouth previous vet work.