Advice Needed: Suggestions for a saddle for this particular horse/rider!

[Ritazza]

Newbie endurance rider here, just finished my first LD with my redheaded Selle Francais and did great - she was top ten, finished 6th with great vet scores! More conditioning and figuring out better elyting/gut support (geez there is a science to this and it’s hard to get a bouncy fresh horse to stand still and eat!! I need an Elyting for Dummies book!!) and I think she’ll just keep getting better and better.

BUT, my saddle is TOO HEAVY. It’s an ancient old Corriente barrel saddle and while it fits both of us GREAT, it weighs between 30-40lbs. That’s just ridiculous. So therefore, I’m on the hunt for used endurance saddles that are going to work for both of us.

The saddle I’m using now (have also added squashy fleece butt saver to it): https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1422496_557282929963_440908819_n.jpg
I like how it has the deep seat so I have some wiggle room but am sort of locked in for anything dramatic that happens. The mare is strong and hot and athletic and can occasionally teleport sideways so it’s nice to have a little ‘something’ to hold me in place if she decides to go from cantering to shooting left and backwards in one movement. I like the support for my thighs without having restricting knee blocks - I also have a dressage and jumping saddle (both Prestiges) but neither of them are suited to distance as I don’t love the fit of the jump saddle on her, and the dressage saddle has this big plush wonderful knee blocks that just suck you right into the perfect dressage position and don’t allow you to really get up in your half-seat and cruise, which is this mare’s preferred traveling speed.

The mare likes how it has wider panels and good weight distribution. The dressage and jumping saddles I have have smaller panels and I think she prefers the weight spread over a wider area - is very happy to stretch out and down in this saddle. Either way she has ever once been backsore, ever, no matter what saddle I used on her and I’d like to keep it that way!! She’s not difficult to fit: warmblood, good sized withers but not ridiculous, well muscled over her topline, short back. BIG mover.
Picture for reference of back/movement: https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/604021_556153857633_786410014_n.jpg

So, recap in case that was all a bit much to read: looking for recommendations for saddle brands that will:
a) be secure enough that I can sit out a teleporting spook AND can get up in half-seat and canter/gallop
b) no treeless please! This mare needs room for her withers and I don’t find treeless to be secure enough for me - just a personal preference.
c) have good weight distribution and more western-like panels
d) have a narrow twist for my hips
e) be relatively lightweight
d) ‘endurance-style’ preferred - no horns or English/Aussie saddles

Other than that, I am open to suggestions as I don’t know much about endurance brands Fire away!

[ehwaz]

What price range are you looking at- makes a big difference.
Some brands to check out- there are a lot, these are the westernish one I thought of off the top of my head.

• specialized
  -synergist
• Advantage
  -stonewall
• tucker
• big horn(might not have a narrow enough twist)
  -SR enduro
  -reactor pannel
  -orthoflex(the older ones)

I would search for something used- much cheaper and any endurance saddle will get plenty of wear anyways. Check out the endurance tack and swap page on facebook, endurance.net,the aerc page on facebook, craigslist, etc.

Personal preference is a huge factor and often you won’t know for sure about a saddle until you have done a 50 in it(or at least thats how it is for me), and then your horses back changes.

Make sure you can give any saddle you buy a good, long trial- at least a week IMO.
I would also ask any other endurance riders who are local to you if they would mind letting you try their saddles on your horse- even if they are not for sale, it can give you an idea about how different brands fit, what brands you like and other features.

[chicamuxen1]

My suggestion is:

If the saddle has western rigging take it off and put the long dressage type english billet adapters on it. They lay much flatter, far less bulk under your legs and you can take your girth up while mounted.

You may find that an Abetta endurance saddle will work. There are several trees made and the rigging position varies with the tree. The Arabian Tree (wide) has very forward rigging which works well for many horses, especially those with a forward girth groove.

chicamuxen

[jaybird660]

Depending on what her actual lateral shape is, (I can’t tell from the one photo), she may or may not be suitable for a hoop tree. Some other thoughts for endurance saddles that we carry include the Black Country Celeste and Equinox, the Baines Enduro and the Lovatt & Ricketts Rubicon. Some AP saddles that may also work would be the BC Summit, Wexford X or Wexford and the Duett saddles. I have a feeling she is most likely on the hoop cusp and may go either way but unless I could see tracings and a shot of the back top, I can’t be sure. We have both new and used in many of those models.

[Ritazza]

Jay, what is a hoop tree? Never heard of that term before!
She’s not a wide tree for sure, and has a good girth groove location - her build is pretty opposite of most Arabs I know (she has big withers, good girth groove location, not enormously sprung ribs). She is pretty typical warmblood in terms of back build but she is well muscled. The two brands I think I am leaning towards are Stonewall and Specialized, but I’m not set by any means

[ehwaz]

[QUOTE=chicamuxen1;7358094]
My suggestion is:

If the saddle has western rigging take it off and put the long dressage type english billet adapters on it. They lay much flatter, far less bulk under your legs and you can take your girth up while mounted.

chicamuxen[/QUOTE]

YES !!! It is so much more comfortable not to have a big knot under one leg. Also, I have noticed that the western rigging tends to loosen during a long ride- that could just be due to my inablity to use a western cinch but it drives me crazy. I also find english girths a good way to monitor weight- I know what holes I normally use, so if I have to go up or down from normal, it tells me that something has changed.

[Regardless]

Eww to Stonewall and Specialized lol. Such a personal preference I guess. I ride dressage and endurance, and used to ride hunters. I rode my first 1000 miles in my Barnsby Milton Pro jump saddle, which worked fine. I have ridden the next 3000 miles in my Arabian Saddle Co. Solstice and my Black Country Equinox, with a few 200 miles in a Freeform (hated it). My current endurance horse goes in a Frank Baines Reflex. I’ve never had a problem riding in my dressage saddle and don’t find the need to ride in a half-seat but I guess that’s a personal preference also. All I know is I have ridden other people’s horses in other endurance saddles and hate anything that doesn’t feel like a traditional English saddle, but I have very narrow hips and need a narrow twist. I agree with whomever said you really won’t know what’s going to work until you do a 50 in it. Try everything you can find to sit in. You’ll know right off the bat what type will work for you and what to not even consider after a few rides in different types.

[chicamuxen1]

You may want to stick with an english saddle designed for trail with wide panels. If she isn’t a wide withered/back horse then you don’t need a hoop tree. I don’t know if you have googled hoop tree yet. Think inverted U with the arms spread out at various angles versus an inverted V. Hoop trees work well for the horses that wide thru the withers and back.

http://www.pelham-saddlery.com/smithworthingtonsaddle/Used15677.html

This is the older style Smith Worthington Trail Maxx. This saddle has a wide gullet to keep the panels off the horses spine. It has wide panels for good rider weight distribution. The flaps are moderately forward, not straight like a dressage saddle. The contact for your legs is quite close and the very moderate hidden knee rolls are more of a thigh roll sort of feeling. You can shorten your stirrups and gallop/jump in the saddle, excellent for hill and trail work. You can find used ones for sale on-line, like this one. They come with additional D rings too. The model has changed and the new one is priced over $3000 but used ones are frequently well under $1000. Made in england. Oh, extra padding in the seat so not hard on the hiney. And the tree width is adjustable by Smith Worthington, here in the US. They are good people to work with.

There are other english saddles with wide panels of course and since the wool flocked ones can be customized to your horses back they have advantages. However, most people who have had Stonewalls made for them are very happy with them and the service they get from the company. I understand that the underside of the panels can have the foam adjusted to tweak the fit for your horse. But, high pommels can be a bit irritating. Since we rarely fall of directly forward they really don’t keep you in the saddle and most western style endurance saddles have no thigh block at all. A few do have a wider style of pommel that will give you something to brace against.

chicamuxen

[jaybird660]

[QUOTE=Ritazza;7360790]
Jay, what is a hoop tree? Never heard of that term before!
She’s not a wide tree for sure, and has a good girth groove location - her build is pretty opposite of most Arabs I know (she has big withers, good girth groove location, not enormously sprung ribs). She is pretty typical warmblood in terms of back build but she is well muscled. The two brands I think I am leaning towards are Stonewall and Specialized, but I’m not set by any means :)[/QUOTE]
A hoop tree is a saddle that has more of an upside down U shape as opposed to an A shaped tree. When one puts an A shaped tree on a dome shaped horse it can be like putting a clothespin on a watermelon. It is going to pinch somewhere as it doesn’t follow the contour of the shoulder/wither area. I’ve included a link which shows the difference between a hoop and A shaped tree. This is just one example and not the only brand of hoop trees we carry.
http://www.trumbullmtn.com/store/new-saddles/dressage/black-country/

[Ritazza]

Thanks Jay! She’s definitely not shaped like a hoop tree horse, she has a contour behind her shoulder even though she is well-muscled there (so there isn’t a big hole there or anything!).

Any suggestions for not-really-English-style saddles? Ideally I’d like a little something to lock me in a little better… I have a Prestige 2000D (too specific of a position that it puts you in to get up into my 1/2 seat with a shorter stirrup) and a Prestige Eventing (too shallow of a seat and the fit isn’t great on her as the flaps are a bit too forward for her). These two have HUGE knee blocks and I really like that for flatwork, but I really really like that the barrel saddle has nothing there to restrict my knee (just keep me locked in a bit through my thigh instead) over long distances.

Thank you ALL for your help!!! I so appreciate it!!!

[Huntertwo]

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com/tucker-endurance-saddle.html

I really like my Tucker Equitation Endurance Saddle. It’s one of the lightest in the Tucker brand. Quality built, IMO. No horn. English or Western rigging.

I was using an Abetta prior and used to the stickiness factor, so I brought it to Smith Worthington, as I live in CT., and had them sew on a suede seat.

[Huntertwo]

[QUOTE=chicamuxen1;7362512]
You may want to stick with an english saddle designed for trail with wide panels. If she isn’t a wide withered/back horse then you don’t need a hoop tree. I don’t know if you have googled hoop tree yet. Think inverted U with the arms spread out at various angles versus an inverted V. Hoop trees work well for the horses that wide thru the withers and back.

http://www.pelham-saddlery.com/smithworthingtonsaddle/Used15677.html

This is the older style Smith Worthington Trail Maxx. This saddle has a wide gullet to keep the panels off the horses spine. It has wide panels for good rider weight distribution. The flaps are moderately forward, not straight like a dressage saddle. The contact for your legs is quite close and the very moderate hidden knee rolls are more of a thigh roll sort of feeling. You can shorten your stirrups and gallop/jump in the saddle, excellent for hill and trail work. You can find used ones for sale on-line, like this one. They come with additional D rings too. The model has changed and the new one is priced over $3000 but used ones are frequently well under $1000. Made in england. Oh, extra padding in the seat so not hard on the hiney. And the tree width is adjustable by Smith Worthington, here in the US. They are good people to work with.

There are other english saddles with wide panels of course and since the wool flocked ones can be customized to your horses back they have advantages. However, most people who have had Stonewalls made for them are very happy with them and the service they get from the company. I understand that the underside of the panels can have the foam adjusted to tweak the fit for your horse. But, high pommels can be a bit irritating. Since we rarely fall of directly forward they really don’t keep you in the saddle and most western style endurance saddles have no thigh block at all. A few do have a wider style of pommel that will give you something to brace against.

chicamuxen[/QUOTE]

We have the original Smith Worthington factory here in CT. Absolutely amazing store, with such high quality tack, all hand made on the premises. Even DH was amazed as the owner was showing us around, as it dates back to when George Washington was President.

He only purchases hides from Europe as there are less marks on them. ??? They had some gorgeous used Endurance Saddles.(Not sure if they show them in the on-line store)… But, I just recently bought my Tucker. Not cheap saddles, price wise, but you can definitely see the quality.

[NoSuchPerson]

There are some Australian saddles that sit on the horse more like a western saddle, but are light weight and very secure. Whether or not you will be able to get out of the saddle and 2 point, I’m not sure. I have no trouble doing that, but I have heard some people complain that they can’t. I used to own this one and liked it very much (sold it only because I no longer had an equine that it fit):

http://www.downunderweb.com/store/MI_SAD350.html

[Kitt]

If you’re looking for a western style saddle, I’ll second Huntertwo’s recommendation. That place is my go-to for western fit - nice folks, and very knowledgeable.

If you decide you want to explore English saddles, I highly recommend Nancy Okun at The Owl and the Rose Distance Tack. She’s an outstanding saddle fitter and a distance rider, so she knows the discipline and the saddles inside and out. She also offers a one week, ride in real-time trial. You can contact her at nancybokun@gmail.com.

[jaybird660]

The easiest way to know what may be worthwhile would be to see tracings and more info. There are some English saddles that could be useful but sounds like that isn’t what you are necessarily looking for. Then, there are some saddles that are hybrid type hoop trees in that they offer a more generous pommel arch but may have a panel useful for the contours that you mentioned.

[Huntertwo]

Just my opinion regarding the Tucker saddle I mentioned above. The sizing chart says to order a 1/2 size up from your normal seat size. My gut told me to order my normal seat size, but I went with their sizing chart and feel the saddle is a tad too big for my behind.

[Huntertwo]

@Kitt;7364754

If you’re looking for a western style saddle, I’ll second Huntertwo’s recommendation. That place is my go-to for western fit - nice folks, and very knowledgeable.

Plus they ship quickly as long as you don’t want all the added extras available. Some on-line stores said the saddle wouldn’t be shipped for weeks.

[Melissa.Van_Doren]

Since you like Prestige, go to their website and look at the Atena, Atena Race and Explorer 2. I have an Atena Flaps and LOVE it, my brother races all over the W/SW and is very pleased with his Atena Race.

[sbwinde]

I recognize your horse from 7IL We were there on a couple of arabs doing the 25 LD also. I rode in a Bob Marshall for my last two rides, not too thrilled, now looking at a Sharon Saare, Specialized Saddles, and was even recommended to try the Abetta (but I did a 15 mile ride the other day, and it hurt my knee quite a bit).

I see a lot of people using Tuckers at the rides too, but I would want to have one fitted before buying.