Advice on switching to raw food diet for dogs

[Sswor]

I am considering switching to a Raw diet for my two ~30lb dogs. They are both having trouble with vague “allergies” which do not respond to anything but aggressive Rx treatment and I’m at my wits end. One dog (JRT/ACD) has skin allergies and the other (Sheltie/ACD) has anal gland issues. Both dogs have been treated by the vet for their issues (to the point of oral Prednisone) to little or no avail over the past couple of years and I’ve had it. With the Sheltie/ACD, it’s come down to switch the diet and hope it provides relief… or get the anal glands removed. This just seems nuts to me, it almost has to be the diet–right?

I was feeding Canidae for years, just switched to Taste of the Wild… but switching from one processed food to another processed food… well, it’d be like me switching from one brand of hot dogs to another brand of hot dogs. Hot dogs aren’t good for me.

So I’m doing a little research on raw diet. I used to cook for my former dog, until life got insane, free time dwindled, and the ease of commercial food seemed attractive. So I am well versed in a cooked diet, but seems dogs don’t need a carbohydrate (was feeding rice), nor do they need their meat cooked, which is going to cut down on prep time 100 fold.

Does anyone feed raw diet? If so, would you mind telling me about it? What meat do you feed? Where do you buy it? And what does it cost you? How do you handle raw meat contamination concerns in the kitchen? Also, what is your typical weekly routine for feeding and food prep?

Thank you, anyone, for your input. I’m looking into switching at the end of the month.

[wendy]

well, it can’t hurt- but most allergies in dogs are environmental, not food-related, and anal gland/ skin issues are usually symptoms of environmental allergies. Food-related allergies classically trigger chronic ear infections (yeah, I know it’s weird).

Have you had your dogs tested for which things they might be allergic too? that might be more productive than trying random food changes. And yeah, dogs can be allergic to ingredients in raw diets, too.

If you want to see if it’s food-related, the classic approach is to do the elimination diet/ challenges.

[Rhyadawn]

I do about 50/50 raw and premium kibble (Orijen, and Go!), although that changes a little depending on the time of year and what’s available. When I’m travelling for shows I feed freezedried raw, but that is way too expensive for everyday.

Local to me there is a butchering school, as well as a commercial meat distributer. I get turkey necks and backs, chicken necks and backs, as well as beef bones from the distributer. They grind some of the necks and backs for me, and I also leave some whole. I get free range eggs from a friend. I get some scraps from the butcher school for relatively cheap, and then after that I watch for sales. And hit up my hunter friends for carcasses and scraps. This year I was given nearly 300lbs of venison, for free!!

If I am tracking costs closely it’s actually cheaper for me to feed raw, but it takes planning. Kibble is easier. Whether I’m feeding raw or kibble I have the same sanitization routine. I have stainless steel dishes, lysol wipes, and a specific area of the kitchen and fridge for the dogs’ food. The dogs eat in their crates, and I can remove the pans to wipe them when they are done. I also make sure to give my hands a good wash before and after.

[Justmyluck]

Contrary to popular belief diet changes are not the end all to problems. A lot of anal gland issues are congenital. Certain breeds are predispoded to them. I feel like we always saw a lot of shelties in our clinic for anal gland issues. It all comes down to anatomy. Also if you have had anal gland issues for a while to the point of your veterinarian discussing surgery. There is likely such a build up of scar tissue and inflammation a diet change wont help much.

Next like stated above diet can often have little to do with skin allergies. Things like a dry coat and dandruff can be controlled with a diet change but true skin allergies related to diet are rare. They mostly manafest in G.I.issues. If the skin is involved in is face and feet. The mantra is face, feet, food. So unless it tends to be isolated in those areas food may not help.

[Sswor]

Thank you for this information, it is very helpful to me.

To answer some questions or touch on some comments, one dog does have general dry skin year round and tremendous trouble with hot spots on his feet. I have heard that foot hot spots (as Just My Luck mentioned) are related to dietary allergies. Someone blamed grain allergies specifically, I don’t know how accurate that is. But either way, the foot hot spots get worse in the summer and fall, and respond to nolvasen shampoo treatment. But he’s constantly getting them in new places–a different limb, a new spot on the same limb, etc. They do not respond to antibiotics. In addition, he will also get general skin ickies which may or may not respond to antibiotics. He has had a variety of skin problems.

The sheltie cross is the one with the anal gland issues. They are indeed full of scar tissue and inflammation as Just My Luck also suggested. I’m pretty sure the diet change won’t help her, the vet just threw it out there, and I agree, it can’t hurt and stranger things have happened. It’s a last ditch effort before surgery.

I have done a little preliminary research and I may actually save money feeding raw so I guess it’s not completely crazy. If it’s healthier, and cheaper, I should at least try it and see what it does for my dogs.

Rhyadawn, thank you for the tip about your local butcher. There is a local eat packer in town and I was going to give them a call and see if they can help me but 1. I was afraid they would think I was a crazy person and 2. I don’t really know what to ask for. You mentioned chicken and turkey, do you ever feed pork or fish? Or beef?

Thank you again, everyone, for replying. The info is helpful

[Jhein12]

I feed my two cats home prepared raw. It is easy after you get into it. Buy meat, organs, and meaty bones from the store (Chicken necks, wings, thighs, quarters) and feed according to your dogs weight. These are my favorite sources of advice when I was starting out:

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/rawfeeding/info

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/

http://rawfed.com/myths/

You start out feeding chicken breast then add in bone and then a week or two later add a small amount of liver. Make sure the meat you purchase has a sodium content lower than 60 mg per serving. You don’t want enhanced meat, it can cause diarrhea. After about 4 weeks on just the chicken meat, bones, organs move onto beef and pork. I don’t feed fish. It is hard to not find contaminated fish and some fish carry parasites. The poop is your key to see if you are doing okay Loose stool- more bone. White/ dry looking stool- more organs.
Stay away from diet plans labeled BARF, and with vegetables or fruits (dogs lack enzymes to digest those).

[Rhyadawn]

I do feed pork, beef, and occasionally some fish. Also some rabbit, and sometimes duck, goose, goat, mutton, and the rare pigeon and guinie pig if I’ve visited the asian market an hour or so away.

I have found that if you try to balance every single meal (% organ meats/skin/muscle, etc) you will drive yourself crazy. Try to achieve balance over a few days or even a week.

[wendy]

But either way, the foot hot spots get worse in the summer and fall,

environmental. Have you tried antihistamines?

Most home-assembled raw diets are completely unbalanced and incomplete (particularly ones based on commercial chicken parts), and may end up causing health problems over time for your dog. Unless you’re actually able to feed a real whole-prey diet (aka heads, brains, eyeballs, skin, and all- whole-prey diets are your easiest, best bet, fully balanced and complete), I’d suggest either feeding a commercial raw diet (many good ones to choose from- Stella n chewy or Nature’s variety are probably the most widely available and both are excellent) or doing A LOT of research and obtaining/devising a real balanced recipe based on NRC numbers instead of just going for the overly simplistic x% organs/meat/bone (which always comes out incomplete and unbalanced), or even worse, just feeding the random odds n ends you can find with no plan at all. And yes, odds are if you can’t get real whole-prey you’re going to have to add some packaged supplements.

[Sswor]

[QUOTE=wendy;7374922]
environmental. Have you tried antihistamines?

Most home-assembled raw diets are completely unbalanced and incomplete (particularly ones based on commercial chicken parts), and may end up causing health problems over time for your dog. Unless you’re actually able to feed a real whole-prey diet (aka heads, brains, eyeballs, skin, and all- whole-prey diets are your easiest, best bet, fully balanced and complete), I’d suggest either feeding a commercial raw diet (many good ones to choose from- Stella n chewy or Nature’s variety are probably the most widely available and both are excellent) or doing A LOT of research and obtaining/devising a real balanced recipe based on NRC numbers instead of just going for the overly simplistic x% organs/meat/bone (which always comes out incomplete and unbalanced), or even worse, just feeding the random odds n ends you can find with no plan at all. And yes, odds are if you can’t get real whole-prey you’re going to have to add some packaged supplements.[/QUOTE]

Yes, they work sometimes. Other times not. Like the nolvasen shampoo, it’s like a game–Chase the Hot Spot ~or~ ID the New ‘Bacterial Infection’.

I disagree a raw diet is unbalanced. Dogs ate whatever was available for years and years before commercial dog foods were ever invented and they didn’t all die of malnutrition. Besides that, if commercial dog food is so balanced, why does it contain grain?

Feeding a dog, or feeding myself for that matter, is not rocket science. Fresh food obviously trumps processed food for any animal. Come to think of it, dogs are the only animal we expect to live it’s entire life on a completely processed diet. Why is that? Are their dietary requirements so complex one need a masters in nutrition and a chemistry lab to ward off deficiencies? And their feed MUST come in a processed, formed, preserved, dehydrated and mass produced symmetrical chunk? Gimme a break. Thank you for your concern, but I’m not worried.

[alto]

[QUOTE=wendy;7374922]

Most home-assembled raw diets are completely unbalanced and incomplete [/QUOTE]
Not if you do your research - it ain’t rocket science …
there are many supplements available to assist with dietary requirements.
There are also some commercially available brands that are of very low (even questionable) quality.

Have you tried antihistamines?

I’d prefer to try adjusting the diet for relief rather than keeping a dog on antihistamines for extended periods of time - & then dealing with possible tolerance issues, not to mention the side effects of antihistamine therapy.
Most allergies involve complex cascade effects, if primary allergens are addressed/removed, symptoms caused by minor allergens may disappear as well.

[CrazyGuineaPigLady]

[QUOTE=wendy;7374922]
Unless you’re actually able to feed a real whole-prey diet (aka heads, brains, eyeballs, skin, and all- whole-prey diets are your easiest, best bet, fully balanced and complete), I’d suggest either feeding a commercial raw diet (many good ones to choose from- Stella n chewy or Nature’s variety are probably the most widely available and both are excellent) or doing A LOT of research and obtaining/devising a real balanced recipe based on NRC numbers instead of just going for the overly simplistic x% organs/meat/bone (which always comes out incomplete and unbalanced), or even worse, just feeding the random odds n ends you can find with no plan at all. And yes, odds are if you can’t get real whole-prey you’re going to have to add some packaged supplements.[/QUOTE]

Both Nature’s Variety and Stella & Chewy’s have a long list of fruits and vegetables that don’t help one bit with an elimination diet. They also don’t include any brains, eyeballs or skin. :lol: I have never considered either of them to be “excellent” and the few times I’ve been talked into buying Nature’s Variety from the pushy sales person, it was brown and freezer burned from poor handling. No thanks!

OP, I’ve been ordering from Hare Today for years. Tracy is very easy to work with and happy to answer your questions about her products. With 4 animals (2 cats and 2 dogs) on 90% raw, I ended up using a rotation of their ground foods instead of doing the calculations myself and adding in boneless/bones/organs (rabbit brains and eyeballs! and whole prey) as needed. They have all those so it’s pretty easy. Shipping to me for a 50 lb box is $25-ish so that adds 50 cents to each pound. I average about $4.50 a pound but it’s totally the cats’ fault because of the quail.

My favorite commercial option is Furry Foodie. It’s more expensive than HT but comes from the same farm we buy our human meats. Some have added vegetables but most don’t.