Hi this is my first post and I’m hoping to get insight from equine peeps. My non-equine friends are full of advice, and are making me feel cornered, more than I already do.
I lost three mares this winter. The first from an accident, the second from old age and depression at losing her bestie. The third, just yesterday and this is the one which makes me heartsick.
She was a Belgian/QH cross, had been a Premarin mare before I got her. A strong, no-nonsense horse who trusted me deeply because we’d been through so much together. She wasn’t happy after her pals died. But she copes. And I went shopping for a new friend for her and another draft for me. I live on a farm and they were going to be my helpers for yarding cordwood. Anyways…
I found a nice short, stout Fjord/QH cross on the west coat, via the Fjord Rescue Network on Facebook. Talked to her owner, horse is four, a mare, just starting under saddle. Came from an auction lot with a foal by her side, now grown and somebody else’s horse. The seller wanted a forever home, and I arranged for a soundness exam and radiographs as well as general eval by a vet, not her usual vet so no conflict of interest. Verdict was nice young horse, no issues, pleasant and friendly, no vices. I was told lack of time and a little inter-horse stress was the reason for sale.
The new horse arrived in great shape and was biddable and calm, very reasonable.
But, when the mares were introduced, the new horse took a swipe at my older one straight away and it escalated rapidly.
I was so alarmed how the run-in she’d was being kicked full of holes and in spite of a three acre paddock they were not working things out, that I found an article on aggressive horses and equine shock collars. Two days to two weeks was all it took the horses in the study to be reformed for good. Fantastic! I ordered one. It arrived on Saturday but Saturday morning at dawn there was my older mare, still, on the ground. Her left side is covered with bruises and there’s a huge contusion where her left rear leg meets her body. I feel terrible. She’d lived with dominant mares before and was wise and strong enough to deal with them, but not this time.
Nothing will bring her back. I feel terrible.
Not sure what the **** to do with my new purchase. I won’t get what I paid for her, not without training and more miles clocked in harness/under saddle. I feel really uneasy selling her to become anyone else’s problem, either. I really can’t afford to just put her down and write off the cost. And it feels ghastly to look at her every day knowing what she did. I still need a horse to work. Fjords aren’t easy to come by as affordably as this one was. She’s a great horse, zero sign of aggression towards humans. Just…other horses.
This is tough. Can you separate them? It sounds like the new mare may not have ever been socialized. ?? I had a mare once who I could not put out with other grown horses - she’d corner them and kick the snot out of them - but I could put her in with a youngster and she was fine.
Anyways short of separating them I am not sure what else to do. I would pull blood work on the new mare and see if there are any hormonal issues going on. Maybe she needs to wear kicking chains?
Geez. Sorry.
It’s not clear from your post–did you gradually introduce the horses (like housing them next to each other, sharing a fence line) first, or did you just put everyone in together?
While such a shockingly extreme and aggressive action is not usual, it doesn’t mean the horse can never live with others. It does mean introductions need to be done with care.
I’m so sorry about the losses you’ve had. It’s never easy 
:no:
Oh wow, I’m so sorry to hear that. I don’t have a lot of advice but its not your fault, you didn’t know this was going to happen. Please don’t be too hard on yourself.
I have known some pretty witchy mares. Some just have a hate for other horses for some reason. We have had to split up several of those types of mares in the past, keep them in a paddock to themselves as they would just launch at other horses or run backwards full tilt kicking out.
Are you able to seperate your paddock? This way you can keep her on one side and try another horse on the other? Maybe introduce them gradually if all seems to go well over a shared fenceline?
Has she ever driven as a pair before? I would possibly worry about that as well if she doesnt get along with others. She may not like her partner. We’ve had that happen before and had one mare kick over the pole to kick the gelding beside her. Not fun…
If I am reading correctly, OP’s new mare killed her remaining mare.
And now OP is reluctant to sell her.
My advice is to let potential buyers know she can be (deadly) aggressive.
But that hardly makes her unsellable.
New owner is made aware this horse CANNOT be in a herd situation and from there seller is not responsible for any action by buyer.
While I am sorry for your losses @Jalkr, and understand why you prefer to not keep this mare, I see nothing to prevent selling her with disclosure of your experience.
It is not clear from your post if you introduced the two mares without allowing time to judge interactions.
In future, please do not assume any two horses can be put together safely.
I disagree that the horse cannot ever be housed with others. She may be FINE with proper introductions. Impossible to say.
But yeah, do agree that this doesn’t make her unsellable, and the new buyer should certainly be well informed.
Obviously don’t do what the seller seemingly did - minimize her aggression to get her sold… I would go back to them and tell them what happened. Ask to return her.
I knew of a cob who could never be turned out because he killed other horses. Everyone was just really straight up and clear about it. He was fine otherwise.
“Anyways short of separating them I am not sure what else to do. I would pull blood work on the new mare and see if there are any hormonal issues going on. Maybe she needs to wear kicking chains?”
Yes I was wondering if she might not have wonky hormones. Apparently there’s a type of ovarian tumor which can lead normal mares to behave violently. But it would be all the time, not just with other horses.
As for separating, one is dead now. That’s about as separate as they can get.
“It’s not clear from your post–did you gradually introduce the horses (like housing them next to each other, sharing a fence line) first, or did you just put everyone in together?”
My help and I let them mingle over a fence. They seemed to have a normal degree of tension. Nothing my older mare hadn’t seen before. My electric fences are somewhat compromised by snow right now. It’s northern Maine. We still have about two feet of snow in spots on the north side of the pasture.
The pasture is about three acres, and the horse who was killed was a good two hundred pounds heavier and a full hand taller. I started researching the ecollar for horses right away when they didn’t settle down.
I’m not asking for a fault attribution for an already done deal, but what to do with this animal in the future. I can’t recoup what I spent. I don’t want to make her somebody else’s problem. And I still need a draft horse. She behaves very calmly for me. Just seems to dislike other horses.
“I would go back to them and tell them what happened. Ask to return her.”
They know. The sales contract stipulated as-is, sale final, seller makes no claims about fitness of the horse for work. The vet exam showed nothing amiss, vet thought she was a level-headed young mare.
“I disagree that the horse cannot ever be housed with others. She may be FINE with proper introductions. Impossible to say.”
I retained the ecollar in case there’s ever another situation where it might be necessary.
Not saying I’d resort to it immediately but it gives more options. And yes, introductions in adjoining paddocks if it ever came to pass.
An e collar is NOT a solution here. It’s likely to make things worse, not better. Please don’t go that route if you keep this horse and need to introduce her to another.
Well then what advice do you need? You’re keeping her. Don’t ever put her in with another horse.
People aren’t looking to place blame - only make sure it doesn’t happen again. If you’re alarmed by how aggressive a horse is, don’t leave it with the object of its aggression for days: separate them.
Also shock collars: pretty inhumane IMO. Not the solution.
“But that hardly makes her unsellable.
New owner is made aware this horse CANNOT be in a herd situation and from there seller is not responsible for any action by buyer.”
What does make her unsellable is a lack of replacement for me. Zero horses isn’t good. Also, I paid enough to get her shipped here that I can’t recoup on the cost without lots more training.
“It is not clear from your post if you introduced the two mares without allowing time to judge interactions.
In future, please do not assume any two horses can be put together safely.”
My older mare had been without a pasturemate for a month already. The new horse had been in transit a week. The last leg, minus any companionship at all. I’ve seen acting out when mares met before and my older horse was no stranger to dominant companions. She dealt with introductions sagely.
The fencing is presently limited to the three acre pasture, Snow is obscuring the fence for the adjoining pasture for now. We still have about two feet here.
It’s my understanding that mares being this savage is a rare event, and might be due to hormonal issues.
“An e collar is NOT a solution here. It’s likely to make things worse, not better. Please don’t go that route if you keep this horse and need to introduce her to another.”
This study says otherwise:
“To determine whether equine shock collars could eliminate aggressive behavior, Kennedy looked at a group of 15 horses that were either aggressive toward a new horse in the pasture, aggressive toward a horse on the opposite side of a fence, or aggressive within an established herd…”
https://thehorse.com/152432/stopping-aggression-problems-with-an-equine-shock-collar/
“Also shock collars: pretty inhumane IMO. Not the solution.”
https://thehorse.com/152432/stopping-aggression-problems-with-an-equine-shock-collar/
Problem solved in two days to two weeks, no relapsing. Horses able to live peaceably with others afterwards. Where’s the cruelty?
“Kennedy said the total time before first and last stimulations required to change the behavior ranged from 10 minutes to 2 1/2 days.”
You’re going to stand outside, 24/7, for days, to ENSURE that you’re consistently shocking this mare when she goes after a pasture mate?? Inconsistent correction won’t work. You weren’t there when she killed your other horse. Why do you think you’ll be able to be there for every interaction in what’s likely days of correction required? And if this horse does have something hormonal causing this aggression, shocking her with a collar could very well make the aggression WORSE.
This could have been avoided with a line of hotwire on step in posts. I’m very sorry for your loss, and hindsight is 20/20, but spending time to introduce the horses properly and then separating them if one was this aggressive was the answer. Not a shock collar :no:
For dogs, shock collars also have been banned in England, Wales, Scotland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Germany, Quebec and parts of Australia. The Humane Society in the US derides them too.
The study you linked to doesn’t seem very scientific. They say no horses reverted to aggressive behavior but what timeframe did they study? Also there were only three test groups. Yeah a vet in Colorado did the test - let’s not forget the US is not well known for animal welfare and Delta CO, population about 9,000, is a pretty rural place. Giving animals electric shocks is probably normal there.
How long did you do the introductions over the fence before putting them in together? I’m not getting that from your posts.
There is nothing wrong with an E collar used in the right situation - ie, I have my hunting dog out, and there’s a skunk, or a rabbit, or fleeing deer. No matter how well you’ve trained a recall into a dog, they are predators, and they are animals. If they’re running towards a road after the deer and the whoa command isn’t “reaching their ears”, a well timed shock they believe came from the animal they are pursuing typically does the trick. (I’m talking a 10 time champion dog here, so “more training” is a non-useful suggestion).
That said, even with dogs, using an E collar to correct aggressive behavior is really risky, because there’s a chance it will INCREASE the aggression instead of subdue it. Your aggressive mare may believe the shock came from the other horse, and react even MORE violently. Not an appropriate scenario for the use of a collar.
If anything, what works in the western world for young colts trying to maim each other out in the pasture is a sideline hobble, correctly introduced. BOTH parties must wear one for it to be fair. No one can build up a ton of steam without the ability to run and double barrel the other party.
With this horse, I’d plan on never putting her in with another horse again - my .02
