Agility folks - Teeter troubleshooting

[GoodTimes]

I’ve recently started agility with my current dog. I’ve done it in the past, but have never competed.

This dog has always had some fear with being on something that moves. The instructor sent us home with a mini teeter (2’6" x 12") with a 2" block as the pivot point.
If I flip it over so it’s just a board she’ll walk on it no problem (she’s pretty solid on the A frame and the dog walk). But as soon as it’s a “teeter”, even if my foot is holding it down so it doesn’t move she’s very, very hesitant. She’s a tall dog (Aussie x Bernese), so it’s very easy for her to straddle and stretch in all directions to reach a treat without putting her feet on it.

I’m wondering if buying a thick piece of plywood or fibreboard might be worth my money. Something big enough that she can get all four feet on it, but is wide so she can walk around a bit to get her balance without jumping off? Start with just a pencil under it and work our way up a bit until she’s more comfortable. I feel like with this dog I need to go super slow with the teeter until she “gets it” and then it will be smooth sailing.

Any other ideas? I won’t be putting her on a full size teeter any time soon.

[Sswor]

Wobble board!! Google wobble board and buy/make one to play on. I’m running out the door or I would get more involved. Teeter spooks a lot of dogs. Mine suddenly got spooked on a teeter because he mistook it for the dog walk once early on even though he went months in basic training with no issues on any contact equipment. Once he got spooked he was really spooked. I back trained it using a clicker. I encouraged him to reach up with his front paws, while standing on the ground beside the teeter, and manipulate it down–bang it, click treat, click treat, until that was a super fun game. Did some unconventional stuff, including going backwards on teeter, just basically got him super happy fun times to bang that teeter with his back feet on the ground the whole time before going back to conventional teeter-ing. He was back to teeter like a pro in no time. Make sure you ALWAYS jackpot 2-on2-off at teeter going forward except at a trial. Otherwise it’s jackpot jackpot jackpot.

Make sure you use a different, specific word for teeter so they do not mistake it for dog walk–was my mistake I think in hindsight. Newbie lol.

Ps, I have observed that bribery does not work, ie making a trail of treats up the teeter. I see a lot of people do this and have yet to see it actually effective. The dogs are suspicious, reluctant. Physical manipulation works even less, ie leading the dog up the teeter. They have to offer it so the clicker work was my breakthrough.

[GoodTimes]

@Sswor

Wobble board!! Google wobble board and buy/make one to play on. I’m running out the door or I would get more involved. Teeter spooks a lot of dogs. Mine suddenly got spooked on a teeter because he mistook it for the dog walk once early on even though he went months in basic training with no issues on any contact equipment. Once he got spooked he was really spooked. I back trained it using a clicker. I encouraged him to reach up with his front paws, while standing on the ground beside the teeter, and manipulate it down–bang it, click treat, click treat, until that was a super fun game. Did some unconventional stuff, including going backwards on teeter, just basically got him super happy fun times to bang that teeter with his back feet on the ground the whole time before going back to conventional teeter-ing. He was back to teeter like a pro in no time. Make sure you ALWAYS jackpot 2-on2-off at teeter going forward except at a trial. Otherwise it’s jackpot jackpot jackpot.

Make sure you use a different, specific word for teeter so they do not mistake it for dog walk–was my mistake I think in hindsight. Newbie lol.

Thanks. The mini teeter is similar enough to a wobble board that I think we would have the same issues we’re having right now. They’re small enough that she can totally straddle them so it’s too easy to get to a treat without putting her feet on it. I think I need something much wider so that she needs to get right on it before she can get to a reward.

I may go out and buy a wobble board anyway though. I used to use the ones at the gym at my old workplace and found them easy, but I was playing on the mini teeter myself last night and found I was having more trouble balancing, and today my calves are sore.

[Marshfield]

Wobble board is radically different than a mini teeter. Wobble board has much more erratic motion to it. Teeter issues are very complex. It’s an obstacle with multiple components to it. It has height, movement, noise. You just missed Julie Daniels’s fabulous online teeter class via Fenzi. But, the idea is to work at being comfortable with all of the individual components before putting them together.

[GoodTimes]

@Marshfield

Wobble board is radically different than a mini teeter. Wobble board has much more erratic motion to it. Teeter issues are very complex. It’s an obstacle with multiple components to it. It has height, movement, noise. You just missed Julie Daniels’s fabulous online teeter class via Fenzi. But, the idea is to work at being comfortable with all of the individual components before putting them together.

I’m not keen on the wobble board for this dog. You’re right in that they have an erractic motion. I want her to get used to movement under her feet, but I want her to learn that she has some control over the movement.

Right now we’re just getting her used to movement. I’ve been using the mini teeter on carpet so their isn’t any noise yet. And it’s mini, so no height yet (although she’s fine with the height of the A frame and dog walk). I’m prepared for this to be a very slow process.

[Marshfield]

@GoodTimes

I’m not keen on the wobble board for this dog. You’re right in that they have an erractic motion. I want her to get used to movement under her feet, but I want her to learn that she has some control over the movement.

Being comfortable with erratic movement is important, though. There’s good reasons that most of us consider it a critical step in teeter training. I have babies on small ones by three months of age. When you compete, not all teeters are the same. Being comfortable with whatever they may find=fluency and wobble board is part of that foundation.

[GoodTimes]

@Marshfield

Being comfortable with erratic movement is important, though. There’s good reasons that most of us consider it a critical step in teeter training. I have babies on small ones by three months of age. When you compete, not all teeters are the same. Being comfortable with whatever they may find=fluency and wobble board is part of that foundation.

Fair enough, I see your point. I’m just thinking we’re still a ways away from that. She’s four and has never liked things moving under her feet. I’ll run it by our instructor next week, she was pretty keen on getting her used to one type of movement before expanding her comfort zone.
I’m thinking

1. very wide mini teeter
   2)move on to regular mini teeter
2. introduce wobble board
3. introduce noise (she’s not a big fan of loud noises either)
4. start slowly working up to regular sized teeters

[bdj]

OP, I’d try a combo of wobble board (you can make one as big as you’d like with a sheet of plywood - just stick a tennis ball into an old sock and staple it to the underside) and playing with the mini teeter.

You can do a bunch of “bang practice” with the mini teeter - a former instructor of mine would set a regular teeter at “just about flat” and have the dogs put their front paws on the “high” end (it was maybe 2" off the ground) so that they controlled the movement - feet on, it drops, get a cookie, hop the fronts off and do it again. (One of her dogs was so enamored of that game that he would rear up on his hind legs to push a full height teeter down so he could bang it - it was pretty impressive and I always think of him with a smile when a judge tells us that the teeter in FAST is not bidirectional!)

Remember that with a wobble board or a mini teeter, the dog doesn’t have to put all 4 paws on at once - one or two at a time is fine to get started and then you can build from there.

[Sswor]

Yes, wobble board is the precursor to teeter. Prerequisite if you will. Wobble board is Kindergarten, teeter is Jr. High.

@bdj

a former instructor of mine would set a regular teeter at “just about flat” and have the dogs put their front paws on the “high” end (it was maybe 2" off the ground) so that they controlled the movement - feet on, it drops, get a cookie, hop the fronts off and do it again.

Yes, this helped my dog who got spooked. Helped him immensely to [re]discover he could and did control the movement of the equipment. I backtrained it with a clicker and a low beginner teeter. Look at teeter, click. Approach teeter, click. Touch teeter, click. Attempt to put foot on teeter, click. Dog didn’t want to climb teeter at spooked stage but he would rear up and put his paws on higher and higher spots, click. Once he got past the fulcrum, teeter moved, click and party. He was delighted. Progressed very quickly to rear up and bang it down, click. Bang it down and hop on it, click. Bang it and hop it and 2-on-2-off it, jackpot. Within a minute of this game he was turning around from 2-on-2-off and walking it backwards and 2o/2o at the front end, jackpot. A few reps of that and he was turning back around and doing teeter forwards again. Click, jackpot jackpot jackpot. Which is key because you don’t want a dog that attempts teeter/jumps off teeter in competition. He is 100% at teeter every time because I painted that muscle memory of walking the teeter (forward and back) in his brain. He was on it and just turned around and walked it. There is no repetitive memory of attempting teeter and jumping off to rear its ugly head at in opportune times.

This worked for my dog because he had a strong foundation of playing on the wobble board and just got spooked because he wasn’t aware of what obstacle he was on and therefore wasn’t prepared for it to collapse. Without that early play of surfing the wobble, I think I would have had to go back and get him confident with just movement first.

Ps. you can and should raise the height of the wobble board progressively. Start with tennis ball/baseball height, work your way up to 4", 6", 8". Our club uses 3" PVC pipes of different lengths with a dome cap, bolted to plywood. You get a progressive height wobble with a progressive noise element too. Click treat click treat.

OP are you working with a trainer?

[GoodTimes]

@Sswor yes I’m working with a trainer. She’s the one who loaned us the mini teeter, and recommended that I get her comfortable with one type of movement before expanding her comfort zone.

I didn’t have time last night to go out and buy a piece of plywood so I put the mini teeter in a door way and closed the door so she had to walk over it (it was on a blanket so no noise, and barely moved) to get to me and the treat. She whined a little bit but once she put a foot on it and got a treat her anxiety level dropped dramatically. I’m going to keep this set up for at least a few days before we try it out in the open where it’s easier to evade.
I may still got buy a square of plywood so that I can convert it between a big wobble board and a wide teeter.

Last night was a definite improvement so we’ll just keep it slow. I’ll speak with our trainer on Sunday when we see her again.

[stargzng386]

I’ve worked through this with a very nervous dog. I second the wobble board and mini teeter I’d also add a skateboard. It moves but isn’t as erratic and they control it. When any progress is made there needs to be a jackpot reward tons of super good treats, high pitched happy voice praising, sitting on the floor petting. Basically you touched that thing that moves omg a party happens after. The other big key with my dog was not to over practice it or ask for too much. Any repetitive practice and she’s revert and get worse. With her the only way she consistently improved was to get her to do whatever I was asking 2-3 times with huge rewards and walk away. She needed to know that even though she was scared of it if she pushed herself she wouldn’t be asked to do it 10-20 times. Over time she was running to the teeter to practice because she was much more comfortable and felt confident that I wasn’t going to make her do it a million time and she got major rewards after practicing.

[Lazy_Palomino_Hunter]

When it comes to challenges with different pieces of equipment, there are often a lot of options for fixing things without full sized equipment.

A wobble board can help a dog who is afraid of a teeter get started, but IMO the only way to really get a great teeter is to practice with the full thing. Teeters are standardized with where the tip point is, and how fast they go down. It’s really, really hard to create a DIY solution that will allow a dog to learn those elements.

The best dogs on the teeter are ones who know exactly where that tip point is, and have the confidence to power up to exactly where they need to be on the board to get a fast, safe tip they are able to securely ride down.

I second the suggestion others have to start with the teeter down really low, and use shaping to teach the dog to push the end that’s up, down with their feet (my trainer calls this “jungle gym teeter”). Keep doing this and raising the teeter until your dog is enthusiastically slamming it down when it’s ~12-16" high.

Here’s a video clip of me playing jungle gym teeter with a friend’s corgi (I put a cinderblock under the far end so the board was only a few inches off the ground): https://youtu.be/m7plPRjvwio

At that point, lower the teeter again to its lowest point and start having the dog run it again. If your dog is really hesitant, put a low table under the starting end so the board is only slamming down an inch or two. Do this over and over and over, consistently jackpotting and having a party for successful performance.

Then… gradually increase the height over many weeks or months.

Here’s an old clip of my Briard when I was putting the finishing touches on his teeter education – he’s actually even faster than this today: https://youtu.be/FP-zu9X_qzg

[Lyssabd]

Try putting a block under one end of the teeter so it doesn’t have a full range of movement. Have her start at the end without the block, treat accordingly as she gets on it etc., then as she walks it won’t fall all the way to the floor but will hit the block with far less movement. This might help her get used to the motion of the teeter in much smaller increments, it helped my dog’s confidence immensely and now she has no issues with any moveable contact equipment.

[brody]

Home made wobble board. Teeter between two tables to minimize movement.
I like the dog knowing they control the movement. I am big on shaping not luring but even bigger on dog opting in to whatever it is we want them doing

[DarkenStormy]

I had teeter issues with my dog for a full year. No explanation for it, he just decided he hated the teeter after being fine for years. One of the things that helped HIM and still does once he was back on a full sized teeter was helping him determine where the tipping point was. So as he was crawling up the teeter I would tell him to “tip it” -I would keep repeating it until he tipped it then lots of reward. Good boys and jackpots. It takes a long time to get that teeter confidence back and it can be frustrating but it’s all about patience!

[GoodTimes]

Thanks everyone. Here’s an update.
We spent a few days with the teeter in a door way so that if she wanted the treats she had to put a foot on the mini teeter. We’ve moved on to having the mini teeter in the open and she no longer needs a towel under it. The noise is definitely her biggest concern, but coupling it with movement under her feet it pushing her boundaries.
At class on Sunday we slowly introduced the bang game using a full size teeter (holding it about two inches off the ground and letting her step and bang it). We only did it a couple times, she got lots of treats, but while the tail was wagging I could tell she wasn’t very comfortable.

Until she’s comfortable with the bang game I’m definitely not asking her to do much more. I know she can tell the difference between the teeter and the dog walk or A frame, but I don’t want her to start jumping off equipment out of fear.

We’ve also started doing a lot more exercises so that she’s more aware of her hind end. She’s a tall dog (half Bernese) and she can get clumsy when she’s excited.

I’ll definitely be keeping everyone’s suggestions in mind.

[Sswor]

Good update. How old is she?

[GoodTimes]

@Sswor

Good update. How old is she?

She’s four so she’s fairly stuck in her ways, but on the other hand she’s listens well and is great off leash so she has progressed quickly.

We just bought some property though which is further away so this may be her only foray into the agility world as I’m hoping to take the skijoring to a racing level now that we can do most of our training at home.