I’m writing this here because I am too embarrassed to write it anywhere public where people might know me. Just finished up a 3 day AKC trial that I was SOOOO excited for, planned for months for, rearranged everything in my life to make happen, went into feeling totally prepared and only needing one leg of Novice Jumpers to Title, and just moved up to Open Standard. The dog has been GREAT, we have been so on it and running well with flow and really tweaking all the rough edges–I mean he/we have been coming together so well, really just getting along in the ring like one mind. I practice and train multiple times a week with the dog loving it, every minute, can’t play agility enough for him, always having fun with great enthusiasm.
Well the trial was HORRIBLE. We both had a traumatic week and then I got some incredibly bad financial news a couple days before and was (and am) totally depressed and worried. Like the hits just keep coming and I cannot catch a break. Like life is falling apart like a stocking with a run–the more you move, the more it falls apart. Hits coming from all directions, big and small. Like serious low point in life, cannot shake the funk. But agility is my fun place and I thought I was able to let it all go and focus on fun for a time. Guess not.
The dog was a disaster. Like regressed a year in his training. Everything fell apart. No start line stay, no focus, he ran amuck and was totally distracted. High stress before going in the ring and then he was all over the place. It was incredibly embarrassing. I looked like a fool and the dog looked untrained. I had 6 runs over 3 days, all of which were bad. I thought we sort of got it together on day 2 and was able to get a qualifying score but it took every single ounce of my training to get it done. I have never worked so hard to get him around a course. But still, we got it. So I thought ok, we are back on track. Well day 3 was the worst. Total, utter mess. I left the ring with him in passive indifference but he was very upset. I cleaned up, packed up without a word to him and went home and cried.
I don’t know what I am looking for other then to just write it all out. If I tell my trainers they will just say, oh well, try try again, or suck it up buttercup. I can’t suck it up. I’m not sure I want to try again. Maybe I should quit if I can’t get over it. I hate life right now. Agility was one thing I was being successful at. It was one thing that was fun and I was succeeding because of hard work and dedication. I had really devoted myself to learning the sport and being really good at it and I thought I was getting somewhere and now it just seems all of that time, effort, and energy was a complete waste. I feel like a drama queen but I cannot get over it. What the hell is wrong with me? Why am I such a disaster? Why can’t I get my act together? I spend my whole life worrying and it’s ruining everything.
Well, you probably know this…but training at home or in class is not the same as a competition atmosphere. You are stressed, the dog feels the stress…plus - new dogs, new places, new people, it’s a whole new game. Sometimes playing on the “home court” has given the dogs additional cues and they know the game with fewer commands.
I don’t compete in agility but many of my friends do; but it’s the same for hunting type tests and other performance events. Sometimes the only way to prepare for them is to enter them, because they show you the holes in your training. And sometimes they are just reminders that your dog doesn’t really care about the ribbons…they just like doing stuff with you. Not that it helps when your dog just gives you the middle paw and runs amok after weeks of training.
Personally, I doubt you looked like a fool…it just felt that way. One of my good friends posts a lot of her agility videos on Facebook - she has been competing for YEARS and with multiple dogs. Some of the “fail” runs are absolutely hilarious - although probably weren’t to her at the time. I remember one where her dog left the start line while she was walking out and just pushed the first jump off with his nose - very deliberately. I thought it was adorable… but I’m sure she was exasperated.
Did you go to the trial with anyone else or set up with friends? Sometimes just being able to laugh it off at the time can set you up for a better experience for the next run/test.
As for the agility, we all have crappy days. My young lab embarrasses me on a regular basis, just walking…and we’ve been to a couple of obedience classes, but he loses his mind when he sees another dog. (overly friendly, thank goodness, but I’m pretty sure others don’t believe that at all by his actions). It happens.
The important thing is, it makes you happy. Your dog didn’t mean to disappoint you. It was probably just bad timing with your bad news, your mentality was sad and he probably read off of you and was just confused and lost.
Do what makes you happy. Don’t worry about what others think. Who cares that you had a few bad runs? The important thing is the time spent with your dog and the goals you’re working to achieve. you can do this!!!
Try not to worry about things you can’t control–just take each day at a time. And I Hope you’ll get professional help so you can get out of this dark place. Just remember, people care. HUGS> Hang in there.
Dogs are incredibly in tune to our feelings. My ex left me after 7 years and when I went to my first agility class after my dog would not leave my side, jump a jump or stay for a lead out. This is a dog who had 2 years under her belt and loved agility. She knew I was upset and didn’t want to leave me even for 2 seconds to do something she loved. I would try to shake off this trial and go back to practice just to have fun. It sounds like a number of things are compounding for you and it would probably really help to speak to a professional.
One of my favorite judges tells us in the briefing “There is nothing your dog can do in the ring that mine haven’t already done” Most of us have been there. Try not to fret and just move forward.
OP, I quoted you because there are some serious red flags in what you’ve posted here - and I know this is going to come across as pretty rough, so if you’re feeling fragile, you might want to come back to it later, because I’m going to be honest, and that might not feel really good to you.
Warning over, here goes:
Based on what you’ve written, I’m guessing this was maybe your second or third trial? And you did pretty well at the first one(s) (getting out of Novice Standard, and most of the way through Novice Jumpers)? Welcome to the real world - agility is hard. It’s fun as all get out, but it is rarely ever easy. Novice isn’t usually too bad, but that step up to Open is a big one and lots of folks get stuck in “Open Hell” for a pretty long time.
You set yourself up for disappointment way ahead of time - it’s tough when your training is going well, but trials are (as other folks have mentioned) a completely different animal. Crap happens at trials and it’s your job as a handler to work with the dog you have on that day, not the dog you had in class earlier in the week. I’ve learned (the hard way) that even though you think you should be able to finish a title in a specific weekend, the agility gods have a way of laughing in your face. Not saying that you shouldn’t look forward to trials (heaven knows I do), but you should be looking forward to the experience, not the results.
I understand that you’ve had a lot of stuff going on in your life recently (I saw the Off Topic thread) and I have no doubt that that affected you and your dog. Coupled with your expectations for the trial? Pretty much a recipe for trouble right there. I don’t know you, I don’t know your dog, but in recent weeks, to quote one of my favorite songs, you’re “gonna need a forklift, 'cause all the baggage weighs a ton.” It is what it is, but if you have a tough time dealing with that kind of stuff, there’s no shame in scratching out of the trial. Yeah, you might be out a little bit of cash, but better that than make yourself and your dog suffer through a long weekend.
Here’s the one that bothers me the most - you had a rough weekend and you took it out on your dog. Yeah, he was stressing and not being awesome like he is in class - so what. YOU CHOSE TO BE THERE, HE DIDN’T. You are responsible for making his weekend fun and good - even if you’re disappointed with him. He’s acting like an idiot, skylarking around the ring, freaked out and stressing because the judge is a scary person? It is your job to find the one thing he did right (did he come when you called him so you could leash up and take him out of the ring? Get over the last jump after you decided that the whole middle and last sections of the course just weren’t going to happen for you two today? Make a weave pole entrance on the third try?) and tell him what a good dog he was and how much you love him. Don’t “clean up, pack up without a word to him” - that’s so unfair to him that it hurts. He’s a dog, and he takes his cues from you - and you basically told him that agility sucks and you don’t like him at all. (I warned you this wasn’t going to be nice.) It’s OK to be disappointed, but unless he did something egregious (like bite somebody) what you did was pretty terrible. He’s supposed to be having fun and he doesn’t know (or give a damn) whether you had a clean run or not or if you got a title or a placement or won Nationals - and you’re the one who has to suck it up and make him feel like a million bucks because he’s your buddy and you got to do some fun stuff together.
You get to make the decision as to whether you pursue this amazing sport or not. You don’t even have to make it now - agility will still be around if you want to take some time to think about it and come back (or not) later. If you do decide to stick with it, work on managing your expectations - it’s not about the titles, it’s not even about the stupid little green ribbons - it’s about the fun. If you’re not having fun, don’t do it, if your dog isn’t having fun, don’t do it - there are plenty of other things you can do with him. Hell, you can have fun trialing and not Q - I’ve had some truly awesome runs that we didn’t Q on, but the run itself felt so good that I didn’t care about the Q because everything else came together like magic. (Seriously, that was just last weekend for me.)
LIke I said, maybe not what you wanted to hear, but I hope you got something useful out of it. Best of luck to you and your dog, OP.
The dog was a mess because I have been a mess. I had a long talk with my mom today over lunch. Thanks for the replies, I am sorry for being a drama queen. Sometimes you just have to talk it out.
Ps, yeah I acted like an asshole which was even worse. I’m not sure how to fix that or if there even is any fixing that. I do appreciate your comments–all of them. Thank you.
Seriously, that’s probably one of the easiest things to fix - heck, you’ve made a great start by acknowledging it. Now, just decide that you’re not going to do that again, and (here’s the tough part) stick to it. You don’t have to be a Pollyanna about everything - you just need to change your focus and look at the little things that are going right. Small victories, grasshopper!
Also, are you trialing with folks (training buddies or friends you’ve met through agility) or are you on your own? Especially when you’re getting started or going through a rough patch, having somebody around who can help you see the good stuff that you’re having a hard time finding and remind you to not be an a-hole can be really helpful. Bonus points if they can give you also help you fix things that you’re struggling with, but there’s a fine line between help and criticism. It needs to be a reciprocal relationship, but that’s good for you - train yourself to find the good things in somebody else’s run, and it’ll be that much easier to find the good in your own runs.
I have folks but I am the new kid. I actually worked the trial. I sat all morning bar setting, leash running, sheet running, and watched 4 hours worth of Excellent/Masters rounds. I watched a lot of people pull their dogs off the courses after a couple, sometimes even after one mistake. Dog blows off handler, handler stops, collects dog, usually carries dog out of the ring–even big dogs. One lady yelled at her dog all the way back to the crate. After 3 days I started thinking maybe I am going about it wrong. I reward my dog for everything, literally everything, all the time–>Yay, that wasn’t right but you came back to me, treat. YAY I screwed up and you did what I said, treat! Yay I screwed up and you ignored me, treat! So I started thinking maybe I’m telling him who cares, do whatever you want, here’s a treat…? These people were worlds better then me so maybe this is what I should do. So by the last disaster class on the last day I didn’t pull him, I just was passive and didn’t acknowledge. I let him finish on his own and leashed him and walked out and crated him.
But yeah, no, it was me and all me, me being mentally distracted, distressed, unsettled and he read it all over me and became stressed, unsettled, and disconnected from me because I wasn’t “right”. I just don’t know where to go from here considered how I have been training and what I saw other, more experienced handlers doing. If there needs to be some consideration for that or not, some middle ground perhaps. I thought my 100% positive all the time, no matter what thing was working but after having some recent issues with this dog I have lost a lot of confidence. Regardless, you helped give me some clarity.
It’s totally fine to be the new kid - everybody’s gotta start somewhere.
As far as the pure positive thing - it’s not my cup of tea, and it sounds like you might want to find a middle ground. Early in training, yeah, everything gets a reward (doesn’t have to be a treat, could be a tug or ball or whatever else your dog finds motivating), but once the skill is learned, pup needs to be able to do multiple tasks before the reward comes.
Have you done any reading or talked to your trainers about positive and negative markers? The negative marker isn’t a punishment, it’s just a way of letting the dog know that “nope, that’s not what I want from you”. I like to use the word “oops” as it’s pretty hard to say in a “mean” tone of voice and it gets the point across to both you and the dog - “Oops” = “That wasn’t what I asked for, but let’s try it again.” The positive marker (I’m one of those people who use “Yessss”) is a way to tell the dog “Yep, you did a good thing and there will be treats” - it’s basically clicker training, but without an actual clicker. Talk to the folks you train with - if they’re even a little bit good at what they do, they should be able to help you find a path that works for you and your dog.
Those Mas/Exc folks you were watching - there are different schools of thought and which works for you is something you’ll need to figure out for yourself and your dog. Unless you actually talk to them about why they’re walking dogs off or you know them personally and know why, it’s just not something you can really use. Maybe the dog was getting out of control and being unsafe, maybe they’ve been working on a specific criteria and the dog wasn’t getting it - it’s such a unique thing for each team - it’s not something that you can really transfer to your own team without a ton more information. And running Mas/Exc doesn’t mean all those handlers are worth learning from - some of them are, absolutely, but others are just out there because they managed to get through Open! Find the ones who you “want to be like when you grow up” and focus on them - let the others’ runs go. I’ve got several folks who I make an effort to watch, because I admire the way they run their dogs, or because I think their style is similar to mine and I could learn something from them - there are also folks who I don’t watch. Talk to your agility friends and see if they could help you find the first kind of handlers.
Great discussion - if more people would be willing to have this discussion it would be wonderful!
I’ve already said that I don’t compete in agility but I have trained and competed in field events with my hunting dogs and so much is the same. Yes - you have to be positive, but that doesn’t mean you have to reward. Your dog reads your responses, and there is a big range of encouragement to discouragement - but that doesn’t mean it has to include punishment.
I’ve seen some really severe punishments of dogs in the field. Yes, they probably “knew better” (not to eat the bird), for example, or not to break on the shot. But they are dogs. Their brains are wired differently and they don’t understand pass/fail or ribbons. Punishing them doesn’t really help at that moment.
We’ve all overdone the command one way or another - no need to think about it again…just move on.
If you ever have a chance to watch a pro in the ring/field - really pay attention to their reward structure. It’s very fascinating to see how a successful pro uses the encouragement/reward structure to get what they want. I’ve been fortunate to be able to be the photographer for a variety of field events and a full day of following the handler/dog lets you see how the pros turn a ‘failing moment’ into a positive training situation - which goes on to potentially lead to an overall pass.
For example - a dog breaks on point at just the moment when the handler would give the command to flush – pro instantly yells out "Fetch!!!’ where I would have yelled “OH SH!TTTT NO!!!”
No doubt that handler has been in that situation enough times to know how to salvage it for the test and for the mental benefit of the dog. Maybe for the test in progress…or if not, for the next one. The rest of us are all a work in progress.
Have a glass of wine/ice cream/whatever…hug your dog and know that you can salvage this.
We’ve had some really bad agility trials where I’ve left early and skipped the last run or two. But I’ve never yelled at my dog or blamed her. If we finish a bad run, I leash her up and smile and tell her that her mum (me) sucks.
I did pull her off a jumpers run because she just wasn’t focused or listening to me. I quietly called her over, told her she lost her turn, smiled at the judge and calmly left the ring. Same with start liines…I swear they know you are at a trial and they can cheat. A couple of times my dog would start before I cued her to, which meant I wasn’t in the correct spot to cue for the next few obstacles. I worked on start lines at class. The next time she started before I was ready, I told her she lost her turn and we left the ring.
I think of my first run as our practice, warm up run. I don’t care if we run within time limit. I’ll re do the weaves if she pops out or misses the entry. Lots of trials we’ve left without any Q’s… that’s life.
But no one at the trial is thinking you are a loser !!!
I don’t “do” agility, I do scent work with my two BTs. But, still a “team” sport (if anything, more of an equal team than agility as I can’t tell my dog where the scent is, they’ve got to tell me ).
When I am working them, if they re-find a hide, I have to learn how to call them off while not putting any negative impression in their head just because they’ve found the hide again. The “negative” for me is, thank you good job (no treat as I can pay in the ring) and then using similar body language as agility, ask them to keep moving “forward” and keep looking
I also get watching the high level dogs and then allowing myself to get discouraged because my dogs can’t do that. Of course they can’t, we aren’t at that level of training and experience yet. I still love watching the top dogs do their searches but then tell myself someday we’ll get there, just not today
I’m happy that you realized that taking things out on your dog wasn’t the way to go. Not talking to him on the way homes doesn’t tell him anything other than maybe agility isn’t so fun after all and you don’t want that.
Maybe also think of trying some other discipline. AKC Scent Work is gaining in popularity and in my scent work class, my instructor and the other 3 students also do agility. Nosework titles are also possible through NACSW (National Association of Canine Scent Work).
I started in nosework through Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. On-line and they also offer classes in many other disciplines
We’re supposed to be having fun with our dogs. (At least I try to )
I’m probably no good for words of wisdom here - I just compete my horses, not my dogs - but have friends who do agility and field work and have to say that I think what you’re describing (not remotely drama, by the way) is something that anyone who’s worked with animals for any length of time can relate to. And if you were in a group and this topic came up - not that I think I could raise it, if I were in your shoes, but I’d try to force myself - I suspect you’d get a lot of support from people who’ve been through variations. Hopefully with time and future progress / success (because you love this - maybe take a break and get some perspective, but go back!) this’ll become a story - maybe even somehow a funny one - with time. Hell, I drove hours to one of my favorite events one year stressing the whole way about a fight I was having with one of my good friends, and what to do about it, couldn’t let it go when I was there, and just never got on track. I was eliminated in the dressage for 3 errors before the 5th movement. Whaaaaaaaa? And I was grateful to be excused! You have to just laugh and move on - your dog will forgive you if you do.
I don’t do agility or even much with dogs, but if this were a horse it would be a relatively green horse with a stressed out, also relatively inexperienced rider. Under those circumstances a melt down / bad show would be no surprise no matter how well schooling at home was going.
So chalk it up as a learning experience, regroup and try again. Everyone has bad days and nobody has every day go smoothly.
I think you’ve already figured out that you put too much pressure on yourself and your dog. One thing that you may not realize (which might help) is that while there are other handlers in your open and novice classes, for most of them it’s not their first time there. I’m competing with my third corgi and prepping the fourth. When the fourth is ready, I do expect her to be like the third and move quickly through novice and open.
There’s a lot of “garbage” that goes in to competing successfully from best place to crate, when to warm up, when to walk the dog which you need to learn. I do still have my bad runs, but I am happy with 95% of what I get with Torri. But, I first competed in 2010. I’ve trained with someone who has competed internationally and is known worldwide as a gifted teacher since 2013. As in at least two private lessons a month plus extensive video coaching. I literally have a few books’ worth of video lessons in my dropbox. I honestly work harder at agility than I ever did riding.
I truly, truly am not trying to discourage you. There is NO reason to think that you can’t be successful with time. But try to be a little more patient with yourself and your partner.
This turned out to be a very useful thread even though I started it as a pathetic pitiful me thread. I don’t find any of the replies discouraging, rather the contrary.
I suppose green/green really only “works” in dog sports as if this were a horse sport match up I would have gotten myself killed last weekend. I should be happy for that :lol:
I was given a negative marker word–“uhoh”, and usually do use it. Seems everything fell apart in the ring and it basically started and ended with me.
Over the years I have learned to “lie” to a horse–regarding my emotions. I’m not scared/worried/insecure, all is well, let’s get to work–and I am really good at it. Seems I do not have this ability with my dog. Seems also I took for granted that I could. Wrong!
Agility differs from riding in that we expect green handlers to train and compete green dogs. You would never give an inexperienced rider an unbroke horse and expect them to take a lesson or two a week and be ready to show over fences a year later. Could you imagine going to your first horse shows with a green horse and no support team?
One of the things you need to learn at this early stage of competing with your dog is what works for him at trials, not just in the ring, but throughout the day. You mentioned how much you were working and watching the masters class. Where was your dog? Did he need more of your time and attention? Did you get him there too early? Has he competed at that location before? My dogs are very different from each other. The older one can walk into any trial site, go straight to the ring and have a flawless run. The younger one is more stressed and likes to go hang out by the ring for a few minutes, separate from her pre-run routine. There is a learning curve with each dog and sometimes it takes a while to figure out what they need to perform their best.
As for people pulling their dogs off the course, that is a very harsh thing to do. Unless your dog is very high drive and completely blowing you off there is a better way to deal with it. Agility is about the relationship between you and your dog. Everything you do in training and at trials will affect that relationship in either a positive or negative way. When things don’t go as planned your response needs to be one which will help build your relationship. Negative emotions have no place in the competition ring. Your dog isn’t making mistakes or disconnecting on purpose. He is stressed and confused - how can you help him understand what you want and make him comfortable in that situation?
Don’t be discouraged. Take the time you need to get your life straightened out and go back to trialing when you can do it with a clear head. Take your time and figure out what works for your team. Qs and titles will come in their own time.
This. I have decided I really should not work a trial I am also competing at. He sat in the crate, alone, for HOURS while I worked. I was trying to be a team player, and help out my club when they needed it. I told the volunteer organizer to sign me up for any/all working positions that needed filled and boy they did. After day 1 with him being basically abandoned and me having literally 5 minutes post working position/pre running order to potty myself and him, eat lunch [wolf], walk the course, warm him up and get in the ring–and having it be a complete disaster, I told the ring captain I can’t work that last shift. Well they were short handed and really needed the help. I overheard a comment from someone else lamenting the lack of workers, basically everyone wants the club to put on a trial but no one wants to help, I caved and stuck around to finish the job(s) anyway. I don’t think this is going to work for him/I in the future. I think it’s just too much.
We competed at this venue in the spring and he was AWESOME–3 Q’s out of 4 runs and the 4th only didn’t Q because it was an overnight move up from Novice to Open, and I was a little overwhelmed, but the run was still good, 90, just no Q. I was still thrilled as he was spectacular so I suppose I expected the same performance. I did not work that trial, came a couple hours early, walked him around the grounds, then sat with him and read my book or reviewed the course (a thousand times lol). Basically had plenty of time to relax and prepare.
(At least I try to 