Airedale breeder question

[Ardhi]

I purchased an Airedale puppy a few months ago from a well-respected breeder who I’d known through other dog activities. I admired his dogs when I had been showing another breed. When it came time to purchase another dog, I thought I’d try an Airedale and go with this breeder. I told him extensively what I was after, that I wanted to show in conformation and possibly obedience. I was admittedly stupid and excited when I picked up the puppy (which the breeder chose from the litter for me based on my criteria). I forgot to check basic things like if puppy had all his boy parts. I normally would have but it’s been awhile between puppies and it simply slipped my mind. At seven months now, he (the puppy, not the breeder, lol), is cryptorchid. When I asked if the breeder has had this problem in show prospect puppies in the breed before, I don’t get a clear answer.
Is that suspicious, or just an oversight?

I want to believe breeder is not knowingly misleading me. I realize puppy development is a gamble, but most responsible breeders won’t sell a puppy as a show prospect male if he hasn’t descended by 8 or 10 weeks. Any suggestions or similar experiences? I guess what bothers me about this most is the idea I may have been knowingly mislead, and I want this person to be someone I can trust, sigh.

He said he would mentor me in the breed. I don’t think this is the best way to start a mentoring relationship, but is it possible for a puppy to mature this way? I’ve never heard of it. The puppy is nice in every other way and is probably going to stay with me anyway, but I don’t want to think I’ve been screwed around if there’s a better explanation. I’d like to hear from you if you’ve had similar situations with breeders and how you dealt with it, horse, dog, or other.

[Marshfield]

@Ardhi

I want to believe breeder is not knowingly misleading me. I realize puppy development is a gamble, but most responsible breeders won’t sell a puppy as a show prospect male if he hasn’t descended by 8 or 10 weeks. Any suggestions or similar experiences? I guess what bothers me about this most is the idea I may have been knowingly mislead, and I want this person to be someone I can trust, sigh.

He said he would mentor me in the breed. I don’t think this is the best way to start a mentoring relationship, but is it possible for a puppy to mature this way? I’ve never heard of it. The puppy is nice in every other way and is probably going to stay with me anyway, but I don’t want to think I’ve been screwed around if there’s a better explanation.

Your puppy should have come with a health certificate which specified that both testicles were present. It’s one of the things I check when doing litter exams for breeders. That said, it is entirely possible for a previously descended testicle to recede with growth. My husband used to breed GSPs. One puppy he sold, I know had both testicles when he went home at 8 weeks. Cryptorchid at a year. I sold a corgi (breed known to have a bit more issue with crypts) in 2017 that had both testicles when a friend of mine did the litter exam. Did not stay down

[Ardhi]

Oh thank you for your post, Marshfield. I’m very glad to know that it is legitimate to think the breeder was being truthful with me about the puppy at eight weeks. In my mind, that honestly makes all the difference. I am missing the health certificate and the official pedigree which I should definitely have insisted on the day I picked the puppy up. All I got was a health record of his first shots and deworming and a sales contract. I should be better at this by now, but live and learn!

[S1969]

I agree with Marshfield; although I’m trying to remember if my puppy’s health certificate stated that both testicles were present? It was definitely checked by the breeder, her vet and my own vet, but I can’t remember if it was actually on the certificate. Now I’m curious and will see if I can dig it up.

It’s definitely something that all breeders are concerned with, particularly any show prospects - but really, all puppies. I am sure the breeder had checked and had the vet check on the testicles. Did your vet check at your first puppy visit - that should be an absolute given in a puppy wellness visit.

So, it does happen that a testicle can play hide and seek for a while - even months; but it’s really impossible to know whether the breeder suspected the puppy was cryptorchid at 8 weeks. When you asked about it, did they say they had felt it themselves as present?

My dog’s breeder recently bred a bitch back to him and that litter produced a puppy that had a possible undescended testicle - it had been there but the buyer’s vet couldn’t find it at the first puppy visit. They waited another 4 weeks and told her not to keep feeling around to check; and then had the vet check again. It was there and all were very relieved because this male was a show prospect - but she had planned to refund 50% of the sale price if it did not ultimately come down and/or was willing to take the puppy back (which the buyer had already rejected).

Did your breeder offer any refund?

[Houndhill]

In my breed (Irish Wolfhounds), most breeders charge the same whether the puppy would be going to a companion, performance, or show home, so there would not be an issue with a refund, but of course no reputable breeder would sell a monorchid or cryptorchid puppy to a show home. We do check early and often! I too know of cases where one testicle has descended and then gone back up. I haven’t heard of any cases where they have both gone up and stayed up, that would be unusual but I suppose it is possible.

It is a bit more expensive to neuter a dog with undescended testicle(s), so that is something to be aware of.

In IWs this can pop up in any line, so it is possible the breeder hadn’t experienced it in the past. The breeder should have known the puppy had two descended at the time the puppy left them (as you should have ascertained, as you say) but the breeder cannot control whether they go back up. The breeder might offer to put you higher up on the waiting list to purchase another puppy if you chose to do so, if you did have unfortunate testicle luck.

What I am wondering though if the breeder is mentoring you, have you not gotten together to work on patterning the coat, or ring training, and examined the puppy and realized his lack of testicles when they went back up (if they did)?

[Ardhi]

The breeder is mentoring me and is aware of the situation. He said some descend late and I’ll just have to cross my fingers. If puppy doesn’t turn out, I do get several hundred dollars back. But that’s not the point, really…what I want is to show this puppy… :’-(…sigh. I’m sure other people have been here. I just haven’t heard of them going down and up again like this. Apparently from the replies above, this does happen. I feel better hearing that because then the breeder is not trying to mislead me about the original state of the puppy’s development. I could technically exchange the puppy, but I am too attached. Even though I like to show, dogs aren’t exchangeable clone things, lol. My heart gets involved. That’s why I depend on a good breeder to do the right thing by me at the beginning. But nature is fickle and things don’t always go as planned! Sigh…of course this puppy is otherwise amazing…sigh…sigh. :-/ If nothing else, it would be nice to have the cheaper surgery when it comes time to neuter.

[S1969]

@Ardhi

The breeder is mentoring me and is aware of the situation. He said some descend late and I’ll just have to cross my fingers. If puppy doesn’t turn out, I do get several hundred dollars back. But that’s not the point, really…what I want is to show this puppy… :’-(…sigh. I’m sure other people have been here. I just haven’t heard of them going down and up again like this. Apparently from the replies above, this does happen. I feel better hearing that because then the breeder is not trying to mislead me about the original state of the puppy’s development. I could technically exchange the puppy, but I am too attached. Even though I like to show, dogs aren’t exchangeable clone things, lol. My heart gets involved. That’s why I depend on a good breeder to do the right thing by me at the beginning. But nature is fickle and things don’t always go as planned! Sigh…of course this puppy is otherwise amazing…sigh…sigh. :-/ If nothing else, it would be nice to have the cheaper surgery when it comes time to neuter.

Well no one can say whether the breeder is trying to mislead you or not. Did they feel TWO testicles before you took the puppy home? If they did not, and did not tell you, I would be very upset.

Did your vet feel two testicles when you brought him in for vaccines? They should have checked at 12 and 16 weeks. Were they there then?

How old is the puppy? (I’m guessing 4-5 months at this point?) If so it is likely that it will not come back down now. Which is too bad but does happen. But it is much less common for the testicle to be felt and then go back up and not come down than the opposite - that only one was there to begin with.

[Houndhill]

And it seems to be a rule that it usually happens to the nicest puppy in the litter- so sorry! I had one that descended at 16 weeks, breeds do vary in this aspect but most breeders seem to think if they are not both down by six months you are out of luck, unfortunately.