AITA - Dog fight, and what now? - UPDATE Post #60

[erinmeri]

@eponacelt

On Christmas eve, I had to break up a dog fight between two of my dogs - a 70lb Alaskan Husky and a 120lb boxer/hound mix. It was sudden, bad, and I ended up with a dislocated finger, a sprained finger, and a dog bite.

Neither dog is aggressive towards people - they’re both marshmallows and they’ve only tussled one other time, shortly after we brought the husky home, over 9 months ago.

I have no idea why this started. No food or attention was involved. I barely managed to stop the fight, and was only able to get the dogs apart because my dad was here. Mr. eponacelt was at work.

The hound is 12. He’s snapped on other dogs of ours in the past, but always with a discernable reason. We’ve had him since he was 4 weeks old.

The husky is very sweet and this seems so out co character for him. He was given to me by a friend, and he could easily go back to her, as sad as that would make me. He and I have bonded incredibly and I adore him.

My husband is adamant that this situation can be managed. I’m less certain. I’m here alone a lot and I’m now terrified of letting the two of them near each other ever again. He’s furious that I’m even considering sending the husky back, even though he’d be going to his breeder who loves him.

Am I the asshole? Are there other options here? I’m fairly traumatized and hurting.

Have you considered enlisting a dog behavioralist or trainer? The largest “pack” I have ever had was two, but the bulldog really got aggressive with the frenchie when frenchie was added to the pack. I hired a trainer to teach frenchie puppy the basics, and we quickly veered to dealing with bulldog’s aggression. It worked, mostly. They still scuffled, but nothing too serious. I did discover years later that the “innocent” frenchie was provoking the more dominant bulldog then acting the victim, but that’s another story.

I do understand being traumatized by the fight. I had to break up a fight involving several (4 or more) border collies on my best friend’s mom’s farm when I was riding for them in college. A dog uninvolved in the fight, who had a history of biting humans, came up from behind me while I was breaking up the melee and attacked me. I kicked him off my leg and ended up on top of my Tahoe, to protect myself. It was really traumatizing on a lot of levels, but for what it’s worth, the dogs involved never had another scuffle as far as I know. The one who bit me was eventually put down, but the others remained for many years.

[trubandloki]

@Sandysmom

My pit mix and coonhound loathe each other. I keep them separated. It’s not as hard as people here would have you believe. One is crated when the other is loose. They are rotated. It takes a little effort but you get in a routine. You can try muzzling them or putting them where they can see but not get to each other.

I 100% agree with this!

[ekat]

I agree as well.

I have a dog that is pretty dog-intolerant. He despises most other dogs. I also have other dogs.

Once you have a schedule and a routine going on, crate and rotate is not that difficult. The reality is, he doesn’t want to play with the other dogs, share his sunspot with them or anything else. He is a much happier dog not having to deal with them, and getting his one on one time with me.

The other dogs could not care less that they have a schedule. They know what to expect and when.

My old man is 13 years old. We have been doing this for the vast majority of those 13 years. It becomes fairly easy after a while.

Edit to add: I sympathize with the OP. Breaking up a dog fight sucks. It IS a traumatic, and worse when you get hurt in the process, and worse when one or both dogs need the vet. It just flat out sucks. And that is why the Old Man no longer gets the chance to start one.

[aregard]

@chestnutmarebeware

Regarding the shock collars, even if it appeared to work, I couldn’t trust the young dog with the older one ever again, and I agree that keeping pet dogs separated isn’t fair to them.

i agree that I wouldn’t trust the two dogs together again, but I’m not sure why separating them isn’t fair? Sounds like they’d like to be separate.

Dogs are pack animals: So, while i think keeping single dogs is theoretically suboptimal, that’s how most dogs are kept, and they do OK by transferring their pack behavior to their people.

I had baby-gates in my house: mostly because contractors NEVER EVER shut doors EVER, so I’d gate the dogs in other rooms away from the action, and it worked fine. I mean, those gates were up for years. It’s not that hard. They can see each other, smell each other, on opposite sides of a gate.

Other people have indoor dogs and outdoor dogs. The indoor dog only has a small (separately fenced) area for it’s outdoor needs; these are often small dogs that could be easily hurt by a larger animal. The outdoor dog has somewhere to go for shelter (barn/doghouse/porch etc.) for cold times. That kind of arrangement can work out just fine.

I guess I’m saying I’d try separation first, since it seems you want to keep both dogs, and yet don’t want a reoccurrance of the problem.

[Angela_Freda]

Is the husky getting a lot less exercise now that it’s not training to be a sled dog?
Just cause he’s a lazy sled dog doesn’t mean some regular vigorous exercise might not help him blow off steam.

Personally, I could not live with myself if one of my dogs killed the other because I was attempting to keep them separated. Because no one’s perfect.
If there was a rehoming option for one, I’d take it, as hard as it was for me to do.

@Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom

Ask your husband if he wants to stay home full time with the dogs from now on. If not, then maybe he needs to back off. YOU were the one who saw it and got hurt, not him

I Agree

@eponacelt

his motto is “you never give up on an animal”

The husband is already kinda throwing down ultimatums with this though.
Finding them another home isn’t giving up on them, and if it means they’re not killed, or doesn’t acquire the burden of being considered a killer, it’s actually a plus.

[chestnutmarebeware]

I only think that because honestly, what’s the point of having a pet dog if they only get limited time with their humans. And probably a brief period. Especially with the elderly dog that is used to have unrestricted access to his people.

If there was a responsible single-dog home where the young dog could have continual access to the family, wouldn’t that be kinder? If not, then sure, separation plus meds to reduce aggression (not tranqs!) would be better than sending him on to an uncertain future.

I’d also worry about slip-ups in the separation procedure that are almost inevitable.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I understand there are many people who are okay with having the separate dog thing, and it works for them, but, personally, it’s not something I would feel comfortable with (my last dog was nearly killed in two separate dog attacks). So OP, it’s okay if that’s not what works for you.

The younger husky doesn’t sound like he isn’t able to be rehomed, and might be happier in another situation in a one-dog home. Huskies are such active dogs, the management might be challenging. I would talk with the breeder and with your husband, especially if the breeder has another home potentially available. Rehoming to a better situation isn’t giving up on the animal, but doing what’s best.

[colorfan]

What a tough position. I am glad you weren’t hurt worse! My theory is simple, not necessarily easy, jut straightforward.
People first, you are in danger, you proved it by getting hurt. If the dogs got at it again would you really just stand by and watch?
Maybe you try the separation thing but one of them gets their gate open, maybe when you aren’t home. As others have posted the worst can happen.
This isn’t a case of regular pee accidents, this is a potential dog or person getting hurt situation. Totally different stratosphere,
You mentioned that the 12yr old has snapped before. This was not a one off, he will snap again. You didn’t notice the signs but I would bet they were there. Just like many people miss Dobbins signs of aggression, people miss their pups silent stares and stiff walk.

If you don’t feel safe you aren’t.

[PNWjumper]

Sucks to have to deal with fighting dogs.

But I will say that I don’t think it’s as unusual as it might feel?

Years ago I had 3 dogs - an old husky female (alpha), a male Bernese, and a male malamute/shepherd/wolf mix (he was a drop off at a hardware store that we later tracked back to some backyard yahoo trying to do hybrids -sigh-). When the female husky was alive, there was peace all of the time. She was a good alpha, and though she’d occasionally go after one of the others, the second they backed down she let it go.

She died and the berner died, and we got another male berner. He was raised by the malamute mutt, who did his best to become the new alpha. But he clearly never really learned how to do it, and he would go after the berner like the old husky had, but he absolutely would not stop. It took my husband picking him up by his butt and shoulder skin and removing him from the situation. If you pulled away the berner, the malamute would stay on him, and if you just pulled away the malamute it would keep going. The couple of times I was home when it happened, I tried prying them apart with rakes and couldn’t do it.

Long story short, once every 6 months or so, they would get into that awful fight, and fortunately my husband was usually around to deal with it. The couple of times he wasn’t I was eventually able to get them apart. They did cause each other to bleed, but via small puncture/teeth marks…a lot less damage than they were capable of.

I always assumed the malamute took issue with the berner and sensed that he wasn’t healthy. And the attacks escalated a bit as the berner approached his 8th birthday and then just died in his kennel one night.

Cue another couple of dogs. The malamute raised our corgi and our next berner (female this time). And he did the same thing a couple of times to the berner, but not with as much ferocity, and the berner always backed down immediately (unlike the boys). The malamute passed away at 13. And lo and behold, once he was gone, the corgi started the attacks on the berner.

It’s not a very high risk situation - the berner literally stands there confused when it happens. But it’s still something where we generally intervene and pull the corgi away. And it’s probably the same frequency - once every 6 months or so. They get along great all of the time otherwise.

My point is just that I don’t think it’s that unusual.

But I too learned that you don’t ever intervene with your hands! I got bit by my first berner (who would have died for me!), by inserting myself in the middle of it. Hence the husband picking up the malamute and/or rakes.

Seems like other people have good advice. But I haven’t ever found a way to make the behavior non existent!

[Jaegermonster]

You have an elderly dog and a young dog.
What happens in wolf packs, dog packs , canine groups, is as the younger dogs mature eventually they take out the older dogs.
It sucks but that’s how they roll.
You will have to keep them separated until your old dog passes or you will be taking a big chance anytime they are together.

PS if you didn’t have to take one of both to the vet to get sewn up
Then it was just a lot of noise. Usually they sound a lot worse than they really are.

[2tempe]

OP - it seems from reading your comments that somehow you and your husband need to get on the same page. I get his concern over rescue dogs in general, but the husky has a safe and workable solution. I dont get that he is focusing on your injuries, or justifiable worries about when the next event will occur. But somewhere there needs to be a conclusion between the two of you.

Side story, but one worth thinking about: I have a now elderly friend who was widowed many years ago as the result of a dog fight. They had 3 dogs, and one night there was a nasty fight between two of them. The husband tried to separate them, it was in the kitchen, he tripped in the process, hit his head on the edge of granite counter and died before ambulance could get there.

[Unfforgettable]

Pro dog trainer here. Please don’t use an e-collar to try and prevent or stop a dog fight. It rarely ever gives the response you hope for and often escalates the aggression.

[4horses]

I went through something similar a few years ago. May even have posted on here about it. We adopted a puppy that came in a bit traumatized. Extremely timid. She would cry if you gave her any kind of toy and try to hide it- sort of an odd response. Usually puppies are happy to have a toy. Outside in the yard, she acted fearless, but around people she would shut down.

She was friendly with the cats for about 3 days. It was downhill from there. Despite using crates, separation, food rewards, etc we could not get her to accept the cats. She would snap at them and try to go after them. Then her aggression turned towards our other dog. Our other dog is a shepherd about 3x her size. She would randomly and without obvious provocation attack the shepherd. She latched on to her back one time and we had to lift her off her feet to get her off the other dog. I think we treated bite wounds about 3 times on our other dog. Then one day she went after my cat and I went running after her. I hit the wet grass, and slipped. Fractured my foot and bruised all the bones. It took 4 months before I was able to even touch my big toe on the ground, almost a full year for me to walk without limping. She was rehomed shortly after that to someone with no other animals. The truth is she needed to be rehomed much sooner but my family really fought me on keeping her even after everything that had happened.

It would have saved us a great deal of suffering if we had just rehomed her immediately when she first showed aggression issues. We had hoped we could keep her seperately and work on training her to be more tolerant.

My friend found us the perfect dog a few months later. I was very reluctant to even consider another dog, but my friend worked at the shelter and was convinced this dog was the right one for us. It just so happened that on my birthday, I ended up bringing home a little Cocker Spaniel that immediately made friends with everyone here, including the cats.

This isn’t the best picture of her, but you can see how friendly she is with others.

[Jenerationx]

@Unfforgettable

Pro dog trainer here. Please don’t use an e-collar to try and prevent or stop a dog fight. It rarely ever gives the response you hope for and often escalates the aggression.

Excellent advice. E-collars are great for many things, aggression isn’t one of them.

[JanM]

Rehoming to a one-animal household isn’t a failure, it’s a success for everyone involved. It’s accepting the reality that right now you had one fight, but the next one is going to happen, and you can’t prevent it forever.

I would still get the older dog checked out for health issues, since sometimes the weaker animal gets attacked. However, if the older dog is healthy, then I would rehome the Husky to a single animal home. Waiting could allow something avoidable to happen.

[Kemosabe]

I have two intact males (Aussies) that have fought. Thankfully a dominance fight not a fight to the death. I have to keep them separated. I recently neutered the older of the two since he is no longer breeding. Still I have to keep them apart.

It’s not difficult, you just have to be mindful. We have dog gates throughout the house. The now neutered boy stays in the kitchen and SO’s man cave area with two spayed girls and another neutered boy. SO takes them with him on farm chores.

The younger intact boy is with the oldest pack member (15 years old) and a spayed female in the living room, den, bedroom area. These three go everywhere with me including to work.

We have a big fenced in back yard which keeps the intact boy safe while the recently neutered boy runs around the farm. When I want to take the intact boy out on the farm, I bring the recently neutered boy into the house with another dog.

I am lucky my SO and I coordinate with the dogs very well. That is a crucial piece of making this work.

[Bluey]

A local fellow found some puppies on the road.
They were dumped a few days ago and in sad shape.
Took them to the vet and two died, two made it and he kept them.
I warned him that raising two puppies together can make them harder to train, they bond to each other more than to humans, to handle them together and individually each one for training, so they also bond to him.
Also warned him that, depending on temperament, if very equal in strong character, some times as they mature they will fight, some times seriously, to the death.

Well, friend did well raising them, both listened to him and were very nice dogs.
One looked to be an aussie/GSD cross, the other about same size had the looks of some more mixed in there.

As they were past one year old, they started having fights, after one they both had to be patched up by the vet, that warned someone was going to get seriously injured.

This fellow had fixed a dog yard to keep them outside part of the time, so he added one on the other side of his house and kept each one in their yards and only let one in the house at the time.
That worked fine for many years. As they were getting old, he tried and, under supervision, he could keep both inside in the worst weather, as long as someone was there to warn them if they started posturing.
Eventually one died of old age, later the other. Fellow has never owned another dog, said those two were enough dog and trouble and heartache for a lifetime.

I wonder, what was really the quality of life for all involved, the humans knowing they had to keep one dog outside, not with them, the dogs knowing there was a sworn enemy in their house?
Was that kinder than rehoming one, or if no suitable home found, making a final decision?
No one knows those bad, hard answers to bad situations in life, can only manage, best we can.

OP, hope you can find your way, with all that has been already discussed, that will fit you and your dog best in such a tough situation, that sadly is way more common than we think.

[eponacelt]

Thank to everyone for your thoughts. There are communication issues with my husband that I won’t go into here, but which we’re working on. It mostly comes down to him being too tired right now to have any conversation, much less a serious one. But that’s something we’ll discuss with our counselor.

I agree that not giving up on dogs is important. But my line is not where his seems to be at the moment. For example, my rescue border collie ate the pear tart off the counter on Christmas day. I would not rehome a dog for being an inveterate counter surfer.

But safety is important. We did rehome a dog 16 or 17 years ago who was a rescue. Terrible fear aggression issues which we got her mostly over. But she just never could be in a home with another dog. She was placed with the rescues help in a single dog home and everyone was very happy.

I still don’t know what we’re going to do, but I do appreciate everyone’s thoughts and support.

[brody]

If he wasn’t there he has no clue as to how scary it was.
I lived with a wonderful terrier who every once in a while would start a war with another one of my dogs. Like maybe 4 times seriously in 9 years. She was an absolute delight with me and sweet with hubby. But until each of us had been alone with her attacking someone else we did not know how scary it was ( and we are talking 25 pound dog not a big dog).
Give yourself some time and grace, get the vet check done and you’ve gotten lots of great advice above.
Be gentle with yourself and both of them. Inter dog aggression happens in multidog households it’s often one of those un discussed things.

[Scribbler]

@Bluey

A local fellow found some puppies on the road.
They were dumped a few days ago and in sad shape.
Took them to the vet and two died, two made it and he kept them.
I warned him that raising two puppies together can make them harder to train, they bond to each other more than to humans, to handle them together and individually each one for training, so they also bond to him.
Also warned him that, depending on temperament, if very equal in strong character, some times as they mature they will fight, some times seriously, to the death.

Well, friend did well raising them, both listened to him and were very nice dogs.
One looked to be an aussie/GSD cross, the other about same size had the looks of some more mixed in there.

As they were past one year old, they started having fights, after one they both had to be patched up by the vet, that warned someone was going to get seriously injured.

This fellow had fixed a dog yard to keep them outside part of the time, so he added one on the other side of his house and kept each one in their yards and only let one in the house at the time.
That worked fine for many years. As they were getting old, he tried and, under supervision, he could keep both inside in the worst weather, as long as someone was there to warn them if they started posturing.
Eventually one died of old age, later the other. Fellow has never owned another dog, said those two were enough dog and trouble and heartache for a lifetime.

I wonder, what was really the quality of life for all involved, the humans knowing they had to keep one dog outside, not with them, the dogs knowing there was a sworn enemy in their house?
Was that kinder than rehoming one, or if no suitable home found, making a final decision?
No one knows those bad, hard answers to bad situations in life, can only manage, best we can.

OP, hope you can find your way, with all that has been already discussed, that will fit you and your dog best in such a tough situation, that sadly is way more common than we think.

Wow, that’s an eye opener. I’d assume two litter mates growing up together would be buddies, like cats or horses. I guess pack behavior is different.

I remember hearing about a friend of a friend that had multiple rescue dogs and a whole system of keeping them together and apart. It sounded exhausting. Honestly I would never sign up for an ongoing life of separating pets. If I had a dog I’d want it to blend into my daily routine and create no fear. There’s enough work in keeping a pet and enough latent anxiety about health and training and exercise that I wouldn’t want to add actual fear and a quarantine system to the mix.