AKC registration of pup - halfhalt pls!

[Saskatoonian]

ETA Figured it out, I think. She’s an AKC breeder of merit, and one of the requirements of the designation is that 100% of pups produced be individually registered, so that may explain why she did it - but still, it’s not as if she didn’t know who owned the pup!

[original question below]

Hi all,

Got a pup in February from a very legit but maybe kind of flaky breeder, and he’s a lovely guy. I finally got his papers only to discover that she registered him in her name and signed the back with my info. To say I was taken aback is an understatement. For my other dog, the breeder filled out the papers in blank and gave them to me to register her. She had registered the litter, IIRC, but not the individual pups?

I know there are breeders here and people with more experience than I with registered dogs. Is it customary for a breeder to register a pup in their name after they’ve sold him? Now I have to change it. Not that big a deal - I think it’s $35 - but really, the pup was not inexpensive, and it’s a PITA.

Just want a little half halt before I tell her I was taken aback. TIA!

[chestnutmarebeware]

I’ve only ever purchased one AKC registered puppy and that was from a very respected corgi breeder back in the 90s. She registered my puppy before I purchased her at 8 weeks old and told me she did that with all her puppies so that she could ensure that they had the names she wanted for them. She was the number one corgi breeder that year, and bred a lot of champion dogs, so it made sense that she wanted to make sure she got credit for all the dogs she bred through her naming conventions.

I bought Snaffles because she had an underbite and was pet-quality, and had her spayed quickly, so I never even bothered to change her papers into my name.

[S1969]

@Saskatoonian

I know there are breeders here and people with more experience than I with registered dogs. Is it customary for a breeder to register a pup in their name after they’ve sold him? Now I have to change it. Not that big a deal - I think it’s $35 - but really, the pup was not inexpensive, and it’s a PITA.

No, it’s not typical. Registry of Merit breeders don’t typically sell them to people who will not register them. You probably cannot change the ownership without her signature, either.

Did you reach out to her already? She may want to co-own the dog but all that would have been discussed well in advance of purchase.

That said, many good breeders may want specific naming conventions used – did she name your puppy for you too? My breeders have always asked us to use their kennel name, but allowed us to decide on the rest of the name and submit the paperwork. If a breeder wasn’t sure if a buyer knew how, or wanted the puppy named an exact way, that is not entirely uncommon - but not listing you as the owner is very unusual. And sketchy. I’d be pissed.

[Saskatoonian]

I did reach out to her, and she told me that she had registered all the pups in her name and had signed the back over to me, to which the only response I had was “no sh&* Sherlock.” That if I decided to show him in conformation - which she has encouraged me to do - she’d need to change his reg to full and then would go back on as full owner. I’d be second. The ownership bit was news to me, and solidified the decision I’d already made not to show him in confo. Liberating.

I’m not an unknown quantity: her mentor is my other dog’s breeder and connected us. And she gave me the papers to submit and only asked that I include the kennel name in her name.

It’s all good - he’s a very nice pup and will be a super agility dog - and I won’t have a show coat to maintain on a barn dog!

ETA At least she did let me name him, but I suspect only because she was drawing a blank on her theme. Pretty sure my ideas were better than hers - theme was a topic I know well. LOL

[S1969]

@Saskatoonian

That if I decided to show him in conformation - which she has encouraged me to do - she’d need to change his reg to full and then would go back on as full owner. I’d be second. The ownership bit was news to me, and solidified the decision I’d already made not to show him in confo. Liberating.

Ugh I’d be so annoyed about this if it hadn’t been discussed beforehand.

I would (and do) gladly co-own with some breeders, but not others. And it’s my decision. If I didn’t want to, I would either say no and/or find a different breeder. In my case there have been benefits to co-owning, but I know that every breeder/owner contract is different and it would definitely depend. The breeder with whom I co-own my dog typically does not require it - I actually only added him as a co-owner so he could show my dog in the Bred-By class at our national show (which he won, and it was a great honor for me as well even though I let the breeder handle him in that class.) My point is that even though the litter was amazing, most of the puppies went to pet homes without any co-ownership needed.

If your heart wasn’t set on conformation anyway, I guess that makes it easy enough to walk away from. That is just really discouraging to hear – people choose not to buy from AKC/conformation breeders because of stories like this. Many breeders aren’t anything like this, but the ones that are bias buyers away from purebred breeders.

[Simkie]

@Saskatoonian

That if I decided to show him in conformation - which she has encouraged me to do - she’d need to change his reg to full and then would go back on as full owner. I’d be second. The ownership bit was news to me, and solidified the decision I’d already made not to show him in confo.

Wow, this is bonkers. I thought it was weird that the last puppy I bought was registered by the breeder, especially when she changed the name we chose (after giving us no theme or feedback…turns out there was a theme and she just … included that too) but not clearly stating how ownership will work before purchase when it’s this convoluted is just wild.

Just curious, did she microchip the puppy, or did you? If the former, you might want to make sure the info on the chip points to you. That’s something else our breeder did…she didn’t chip the puppy, but did supply one with only her info, to be placed later. TYVM but if god forbid the dog gets loose, I want to be the one called, not someone half the country away!

[trubandloki]

@Saskatoonian

I’m not an unknown quantity: her mentor is my other dog’s breeder and connected us. And she gave me the papers to submit and only asked that I include the kennel name in her name.

Did you ask her mentor about all of this stuff?

I wonder if they know she is doing this stuff. If their name is associated with her, they likely would like to know about how she is doing the paperwork and not being honest about the ownership.

[Jarpur]

Our dog’s breeder asked that her info be included on the chip – which was purchased from and inserted by our own veterinarian – as a backup contact, and we did so.

[evenstar]

The snarky side of me would submit to my “co-owner” invoices for 50 percent of the cost of food, vet care, training, agility obstacles, and of course toys!

[Saskatoonian]

Thanks, everyone. This isn’t really my bailiwick so I’m ok being corrected. He’s really a very classy dog - she and the people she had evaluate the litter (including my other breeder) thought him most likely to get the final championship his mother needs for a breeding title or designation (did I mention it’s not my bailiwick?). I took a handling class with him (fun, actually) and the instructor completely agreed. He’s not only handsome but a cocky little show off. Pretty sure I only got him because of my connection, and I’m not going to interfere in that relationship - mentor is no fool.

And breeder is a little flaky and this is a definite bobble, but honestly she’s a nice person and breeds lovely dogs, so I’ll just go on my merry way with my (did I say MY?) pup and we’ll have a ball. hehehe

[trubandloki]

My thought was not so much get this breeder in trouble, but if their mentor knows they are doing this stuff they can fix it so it does not happen in the future.

[Saskatoonian]

That’s what I understood, and thanks. But this isn’t a new breeder and I’m old enough to not stick my nose in where it may not belong where no one is being harmed.

I have to say what a gift it is to have all of you as a resource - much appreciated!

[S1969]

@Saskatoonian

He’s really a very classy dog - she and the people she had evaluate the litter (including my other breeder) thought him most likely to get the final championship his mother needs for a breeding title or designation (did I mention it’s not my bailiwick?)

Wait, so she wants the dog shown in conformation for a (probably) Registry of Merit title? This is basically a tally of titles awarded to offspring - but it typically does include other (performance) titles as well. Depends on your breed club, of course.

My recommendation at this point would be to truly clarify the breeder’s expectations as well as yours. I would be annoyed about the registration part, but if she did that because she expects the dog shown in conformation and you don’t want to do that - I’d sort that out now.

Breeder titles usually don’t require the breeder to own or co-own the dog, so her name would not need to be on the dog as an owner. But if SHE was going to pay for the conformation title and handling - that might be worth it. Generally, though - the owner the dog lives with is the FIRST owner on the list, and the co-owning breeder is 2nd.

If she’s expecting you to foot the bill for a conformation title, and you’re not interested - I’d at least make her aware. Did you sign a contract? These details are usually outlined in a contract when done well - for both of your understanding/protection. The fact that the dog was registered with a limited registration anyway makes this very confusing. If it was sold for conformation, you wouldn’t do this - it’s just a waste and a hassle.

(And also saying, nothing wrong with putting the conformation title on your dog or allowing the breeder to do so. I show my dogs in conformation, not because I think it’s fun (because I think it’s boring as hell!) but because it’s important for the breeder and the breed to preserve excellence and health in the standard. If your dog is nice, it might not be that hard.) In your case I would want to be very clear what the expectations are if you went this route though. I’m assuming it would be your money, so while I’d allow a breeder to co-own for certain reasons, I would never let them be the primary owner on the registration unless they were paying.

[Saskatoonian]

It’s always been clear that showing him in confo was my decision, so no need to clarify on that front: she’s just asked me to seriously consider it. If she wanted to put a title on him herself or with a pro, I’d consider that, but I don’t have time for another sport, and this is a breed with a high maintenance coat, so there’s also that. Yes, I have a contract, and it doesn’t say he’d have a limited registration, but that’s fine with me and what I understood he’d have unless he showed.

I’m afraid I may have made the breeder out to be sketchy and don’t think she is - just a little flaky.

[S1969]

Well I know some flaky breeders. And/or some that remember things differently sometimes depending on how nice the dog ends up lol. If it’s stunning, they might remind you that you agreed to show it. lol. And if not, “they always knew” it was pet quality.

The limited registration makes it easier for you; you can’t show it now unless you agree to the change.

[Saskatoonian]

LOL - horse people don’t have a monopoly on flakiness!