Any pictures? 
What are you doing with her? IIRC, you said you were going to start her in the hackamore vs. going through the snaffle phase first?
Not wonderfully, sheās a tough horse to work with. Walk trot sheās manageable, but sheās got a heck of a buck at canter. Baby horse stuff, so just working at it slowly.
Thanks for asking, just not much to report yet.
Not gloriously, sheās an extreme stallion to work with. Walk run sheās sensible, yet sheās got a heck of a buck at jog. Infant steed stuff, so simply living up to expectations at it gradually.
Not gloriously, sheās an extreme stallion to work with. Walk run sheās sensible, yet sheās got a heck of a buck at jog. Infant steed stuff, so simply living up to expectations at it gradually.
What theā¦spam attempt maybe?
lol, imaginative indeed! Sounds like my post got sent through google translate to another language and back.
Funny!
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7595208]
Any pictures? 
What are you doing with her? IIRC, you said you were going to start her in the hackamore vs. going through the snaffle phase first?[/QUOTE]
Here, we start colts with our homemade rope nose hackamores first, then go to a snaffle.
Interesting when some do it the other way, wondering why even use a hackamore after a horse is already on a snaffle, other than mouth problems?
Now, we use our hackamores all thru a horseās life, but not really as a training aid in itself, as we do when we start one.
Weāve had this discussion a few times, but okay, hereās the same thing again.
Your grass hackamores, by both composition and low hanger position, donāt function the same way that Californio-type hackamores do. The neutral position is much less distinct and the release speed is slow, so they canāt function off balance in the same way. A snaffle is of the same persuasion - direct pressure, little meaningful inherent balance.
As such, the snaffle doesnāt fit into a balance-oriented progression. It allows for understanding of direct reining, but requires something in a coltās mouth. Given its state of dental development, that may or may not be appropriate. Substitution of a sidepull during periods of soreness accomplishes largely the same thing. Introducing a snaffle early is used by some folks (Buck Brannaman being one) so that they understand the general concept of a bit in their mouth BEFORE the two-rein phase, so that transition is smaller.
After the snaffle phase (if used at all) is complete, a series of CA-type hackamores is used to bring a horse to a more refined state of work by working more and more off balance, and less and less off pressure.
The ultimate expression of working off the inherent balance of the tack is found in the spade, and the two rein is the gateway to that point. Lots of folks use the two rein phase for everything other than showing.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7595208]
Any pictures?
What are you doing with her? IIRC, you said you were going to start her in the hackamore vs. going through the snaffle phase first?[/QUOTE]
BTW, to put a bookend on this thread, the mare in question is now off babysitting yearlings on Vancouver Island. She didnāt want to be a riding horse.
We got to the point where experienced people could ride her if they stayed on their guard, but she would spook and hump up with every new rider that tried her.
I eventually decided that defining success as her not getting pissed off and my not wanting to strangle her wasnāt accomplishing anything, so off she went and sheās reportedly very happy in her new role.
As life tends to do, I lucked into the chance to buy a neat little hotrod of a horse as my current ride. Heās a large POA, actually, and super well trained. Been a breath of fresh air to just go canter down the trail without keeping one hand on the Cheyenne roll doing it lol
Only downside is none of my tack fits, but nothing some time in the shop wonāt fix. Finished up a schooling bridle for him, and working on a spade bridle for later. Heās nicely curb trained right now, but since that doesnāt really turn my crank and none of the heavier bosals I have fit him, weāre riding in the snaffle until I can get a nice 1/2" that fits him (5/8" is too much bosal for his fine muzzle).
Congrats, heās cute!!! Did you make that bridle? I can see where a 5/8" bosal would be too much for his cute little nose. Bummer the mare didnāt work out but it sounds like sheās got a very happy life now!
[QUOTE=aktill;7788399]
Weāve had this discussion a few times, but okay, hereās the same thing again.
Your grass hackamores, by both composition and low hanger position, donāt function the same way that Californio-type hackamores do. The neutral position is much less distinct and the release speed is slow, so they canāt function off balance in the same way. A snaffle is of the same persuasion - direct pressure, little meaningful inherent balance.
As such, the snaffle doesnāt fit into a balance-oriented progression. It allows for understanding of direct reining, but requires something in a coltās mouth. Given its state of dental development, that may or may not be appropriate. Substitution of a sidepull during periods of soreness accomplishes largely the same thing. Introducing a snaffle early is used by some folks (Buck Brannaman being one) so that they understand the general concept of a bit in their mouth BEFORE the two-rein phase, so that transition is smaller.
After the snaffle phase (if used at all) is complete, a series of CA-type hackamores is used to bring a horse to a more refined state of work by working more and more off balance, and less and less off pressure.
The ultimate expression of working off the inherent balance of the tack is found in the spade, and the two rein is the gateway to that point. Lots of folks use the two rein phase for everything other than showing.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for your explanation.
Balance and self carriage is what we around here think is in how you teach a horse to move and not necessarily dependent on what you have on itās head.
Different strokes for different folks.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7788817]
Thank you for your explanation.
Balance and self carriage is what we around here think is in how you teach a horse to move and not necessarily dependent on what you have on itās head.
Different strokes for different folks.[/QUOTE]
Donāt mean to sound snippy, but we seriously have had this conversation about 5 times on this forum already. Iāll say it again however, - Iām talking about the inherent balance of the tack itself, not the horse.
[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7788779]
Congrats, heās cute!!! Did you make that bridle? I can see where a 5/8" bosal would be too much for his cute little nose. Bummer the mare didnāt work out but it sounds like sheās got a very happy life now![/QUOTE]
Thanks! Super work ethic, just a treat to ride. Iāve ridden him in a 5/8" I have and itās not only a lot of āstuffā on his nose, itās a bit too much weight for his level of responsiveness even with only a single wrap.
I wish Ivy the best, and made sure she got a good home, I just hope she stays far, far away lol.
I did make the bridle, yep. All hand stitched and doubled (save the throatlatch), with a simple version of the āvaquero laceā stamping pattern Iām going to use as a border stamp on his saddle. Conchos are just cheapies, but theyāre nice enough.
[QUOTE=aktill;7788873]
We seriously have had this conversation about 5 times on this forum already, but Iāll say it again - Iām talking about the inherent balance of the tack itself, not the horse.[/QUOTE]
So, I am talking about the inherent balanced horse and how we get it there.
Sorry, will keep out, no need to keep repeating yourself.
[QUOTE=Bluey;7788880]
So, I am talking about the inherent balanced horse and how we get it there.
Sorry, will keep out, no need to keep repeating yourself.[/QUOTE]
I donāt mind having the conversation, but we really are coming from different places.
The answer to your thought here from the perspective of tack is that you make it easier for the horse to respond to changing requests by having tack that has a firm, inherent neutral. The horse then makes a habit of finding that neutral position.
When you then change the balance of the tack, the horse readjusts to find the ācenterā of the tack.
A snaffle has no balance. It works from the perspective of pressure or release. As such, the reason someone would move away from it as quickly as possible (original Q) would be to move a pressure and release system to one where the horse hunts a neutral, rather than a release.
