Alcohol fusion for ringbone--Nov 14 update post 28

I thought some of you might be interested in this.

My much loved pet of a 23 year old quarter horse gelding, Lucky, has been retired for several years with progressively degenerating ringbone on his left fore. X rays have shown the pastern joint to be degenerating and fusing over time.

He’s been managed pretty comfortably with bute, but this year, he’s been getting progressively more lame. Still eating, bright, happy to be out with my little herd of retirees, but becoming hard to keep weigh on and getting to the point where we knew this couldn’t go on for much longer.

My vet and I had discussed the possibility of injecting the pastern joint with grain alcohol, to speed the progress of the fusion and to deaden the nerves in the mean time.

It’s still a relatively experimental procedure, and we are well aware of the risks involved, but all we are trying to achieve at this point is a comfortable pasture ornament, and the only other option at this point is to euthanize, so we felt it was worth a try.

So, this morning, we did it. Lucky is still snoozing off the sedatives and nerve block in his stall.

It was a bit of a performance getting the needle in the joint space as there isn’t much of one left, but thanks to the miracle of digital x-rays, vet was able to place the needle very precisely, and was rewarded with a little joint fluid. Apart from that, the whole thing was a no-brainer and was done standing, in my garage… (redneck horsekeeping here. It’s the spot with the flat floor and the rubber mats…)

There’s no guarantees, of course, but if it does work, this will be A Good Thing. And relatively inexpensive–I’m expecting a bill of aroud $300 including farm call and sedation and x-rays and the injection itself.

I’ll keep this post updated with progress reports.

I think it’s great that you tried and have let us know. It sounds like it made lots of sense for your horse. Plus you had the willingness, the ambitious vet and garage needed to get it done.

Chemical arthrodesis is so new that many people and horses who don’t read academic journals can really benefit from your reports about how it goes. IIRC all athrodesis procedures tend to have better outcomes for hindlimbs, rather than forelimbs. So if yours works, or works well enough, that’ll be great news.

Best of luck to you and your brave horse!

Best of luck & many jingles for a great outcome!!

My heroic old TB fought the good fight against ringbone for 10+ years. He’s no longer with us but I’ll be fascinated to know the results of your experiment. Please do keep us updated! :yes:

Props to you for taking such good care of your dear friend. :slight_smile:

Well, so far, so good. It’s all a bit subjective, but he appears to be bearing more weight on that leg already, and he’s feeling quite bright and pushy (tried to eat the pony yesterday when said pony had the nerve to approach his hay pile… this after I had to have quite a discussion with him about climbing into the hay shed while I was working in there.)

We’ll see more as the week goes on and as the nerve-deadening takes full effect, I think.

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Please do keep us updated, a fellow boarder’s 7yr gelding was just found to have very advanced low ringbone, very sad news.

I have a horse with ringbone too. I assume your horse has high ringbone, as opposed to low? I think that makes a difference as it’s very hard to fuse low ringbone.

Please keep us posted!

I have one too with both high and low ringbone. She is still pretty good, not being ridden much, but quite happy with gimpy moments. I am very interested to know the results long term.
Good luck to Lucky!!

[QUOTE=Druid Acres;4949280]
I have a horse with ringbone too. I assume your horse has high ringbone, as opposed to low? I think that makes a difference as it’s very hard to fuse low ringbone.

Please keep us posted![/QUOTE]

Yes, it is high ringbone.

I am also anxious to hear about this. My old girl has a high ringbone which is quite painful. I know the end is near but she is still happy and eating and getting around but if there was something that could give her more time I sure can’t wait to try it.

Well we are at the end of week one. Not an instant miracle cure, but he does seem to be taking more weight on that leg. And I can pick all four feet up without him sitting down. I haven’t had much time at home this week to really watch him move, so I’ll be interested to spend some time doing so tomorrow.

keep us posted. I have a horse that it was suggested to try the alcohol infusion for her ringbone.
Now, we are dealing with sarcoids, but its an option in the future so I am very curious how your horse does.
thanks.

I have an olde boarder here with painful ringbone, so I can’t wait to hear how this works.

Why didn’t the vet try shockwave? Less invasive, about the same cost. Controls the pain fairly well?

Way to far gone for shockwave–this is last ditch stuff.

atr, how is your gelding doing?

Quite well… the trimmer was here last week, and found the left front that we had injected much easier to trim than he has been in the past, whereas the right front was a bit of an ordeal, as he really doesn’t want to bend that joint at all. He’s “dot and carry-one-ing” around fairly happily, and the left front now seems to be giving him less trouble than the right. And I did see him do a version of a canter the other day.

I’m actually going to call the vet tomorrow to get him to come look at doing the right.

Not a miracle cure, by any means, but he seems to have slowly got more comfortable over the past few weeks. I’ll be interested to see x-rays to see how much fusing there has been.

He’s eating well, bullying the pony and mugging me for treats, so not doing too badly overall.

[QUOTE=Ka20118;4959753]
Why didn’t the vet try shockwave? Less invasive, about the same cost. Controls the pain fairly well?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, well. If you have the money to deaden pain at great cost for a short time…

This was offered to me in a similar situation (one slightly better than the OP’s case) and I thought it sounded like duct tape.

I’m a cheap, instant-gratification, unreasonable American. I want a cure/immortal horse!

[QUOTE=atr;5014733]
Quite well… the trimmer was here last week, and found the left front that we had injected much easier to trim than he has been in the past, whereas the right front was a bit of an ordeal, as he really doesn’t want to bend that joint at all. He’s “dot and carry-one-ing” around fairly happily, and the left front now seems to be giving him less trouble than the right. And I did see him do a version of a canter the other day.

I’m actually going to call the vet tomorrow to get him to come look at doing the right.

Not a miracle cure, by any means, but he seems to have slowly got more comfortable over the past few weeks. I’ll be interested to see x-rays to see how much fusing there has been.

He’s eating well, bullying the pony and mugging me for treats, so not doing too badly overall.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the update! Out of curiosity: When does your vet want to re-X-ray? How long does the DVM predict it will take to accomplish full fusion? I assume that’s the goal. If so, can you redo the injection again if fusion is partial?

And if you haven’t taken rads of the right one, you may be seeing clinical signs that he has a matched set of ringbone issues.

Best wishes to you guys!

MVP, Vet is actually coming out on Saturday and we will re Xray then. This is a bit experimental for him so he wants to xray to see where we’ve got to. We do indeed have a matching set of ringbone, but we wanted to just do the worst one first to see where that got us.

I should have a clearer answer to your questions after he’s been in.

With the benefit of heinsight, we should have done this last year, before it degenerated this far, but we were hesitant to be the vet’s first go at it…

BTW, the bill for the procedure, including farm call, tranq, 2 radiographs (he took a lot more than this) and injection was $188.

Yeah, first thing I thought of for my horse when I read this is “Damn! Shoulda coulda woulda a cotton pickin’ year ago.”

But maybe not. If the point is to fuse a joint, why not start with one that’s closer to that rather than farther away? Waiting means that horseling limped around longer and a little worse than he might have. But as I understand it, immobilizing the pastern joint puts more stress on the coffin joint. So no worries! The horse may still get the chance to limp around later, just with a different problem.

It may turn out that chemical fusion really works best with joints that quite degenerated. If I were to experiment on one of my own, I’d start with “a bad one” as you did. Let vet schools try this on healthier joints. Putting your tax dollars to work, they already do with other joints and it’s not always a success.