Alcohol Injections for Ringbone, Subluxation

[cocohooves]

My mare regressed horribly in the past two months. She limped/limps constantly and her front left pastern is obviously swollen. I finally got a look at x-rays done last month and saw the causes - not only does she have a subluxation, she also has ringbone riddling the joint. I’m no expert by any means, but it looks severe.

I’m at the point where I know the kindest thing would be euthanasia. I can’t justify the costs of supplements and medication, and her pain is obvious. I talked to the vet and she brought up fusion of the joint. I told her I can’t afford it. However, getting home I discovered alcohol injections to induce fusion. I’m ready to let Pepper go, but if there’s anything that could keep her with me longer without the pain she’s suffering now, I’ll jump on it. She’s easily the sweetest, kindest, most gentle horse I’ve ever encountered, and is really the love of my life. I’ve read up on the positive results of injections and am completely willing to try it.

I’ll call the vet when they open after the holiday. What are your thoughts? Her subluxation is also a factor, and I wonder what is really giving her more pain - subluxation or ringbone? Sorry for no pictures of the x-rays - totally skipped my mind.

[enjoytheride]

I would put her down. Fusing her joints would be a temporary fix so you don’t have to say goodbye, but is it really what’s best for the horse? You are already short enough on funds you can’t treat her on her painful days and that is no life for a horse you love.

[cocohooves]

@enjoytheride

I would put her down. Fusing her joints would be a temporary fix so you don’t have to say goodbye, but is it really what’s best for the horse? You are already short enough on funds you can’t treat her on her painful days and that is no life for a horse you love.

I anticipated this, thank you. I can treat her on painful days, and am doing so. The issue is having to pay 70 dollars every two months to do so is a chunk of my money.

Could you elaborate on why it’s a temporary fix? I have limited knowledge of how joint fusion works.

[CindyCRNA]

Op, how old is your girl?

[HappyTalk]

Do a COTH search on this topic. There was poster here who did the procedure and she updated on the results. I talked to my vet about doing it on one of our horses. He refused to do it because he felt there was not enough research on the procedure.

[cocohooves]

@CindyCRNA

Op, how old is your girl?

She turned 15 this year. Sorry for the following sappy blurb, but Pepper has gone through a lot of severe neglect in her life and I’d love to have a way to give her more time to be spoiled and loved. Even if she could be pain free until next summer, just having that amount of time to spend with her would be invaluable to me. I’ve had such a short time with her. She’s still happy, perky, and has a great appetite. I’m prepared to let her go, especially while she’s still well, but it would be relieving if there’s a way she can have significantly less pain until I make that decision.

That’s her in my profile picture. Her ears are always perked up, her eyes are always bright, and she’s the one horse in my menagerie that I can trust unconditionally. Seeing her gimp around is just… heartbreaking, honestly. I just want her body to work like her mind and heart does.

[cocohooves]

@HappyTalk

Do a COTH search on this topic. There was poster here who did the procedure and she updated on the results. I talked to my vet about doing it on one of our horses. He refused to do it because he felt there was not enough research on the procedure.

I actually read that thread before I made this post, hence my optimism toward the treatment. The study they did with it had great odds, and any amount of relief would be great for her. If the risk is too much, I won’t do it.

[CindyCRNA]

@cocohooves

I anticipated this, thank you. I can treat her on painful days, and am doing so. The issue is having to pay 70 dollars every two months to do so is a chunk of my money.

Could you elaborate on why it’s a temporary fix? I have limited knowledge of how joint fusion works.

I know all things are relative but $35 a month is very cheap. If that is the only thing between her and pain and euthanasia, please find a way.

[cocohooves]

@CindyCRNA

I know all things are relative but $35 a month is very cheap. If that is the only thing between her and pain and euthanasia, please find a way.

I’m currently waiting for the Equioxx to take effect. It’s been about 4 days now with no change in comfort, which is expected early on but still worries me. The money starts stacking when I factor in her 40 dollars/month Smartpaks and her 30 dollars/month feed, along with the other two also needing joint care and feed. I work a minimum wage job around college. I could cancel her Smartpaks easily, but I fear that would make her condition worse to the point the pain medication can’t help her.

Thank you for caring about her comfort. This may sound a little dumb, but this does make me more optimistic that the Equioxx may help. She’s getting Equioxx because I was worried about Bute. The Bute did seem to help.

[CindyCRNA]

@cocohooves

I’m currently waiting for the Equioxx to take effect. It’s been about 4 days now with no change in comfort, which is expected early on but still worries me. The money starts stacking when I factor in her 40 dollars/month Smartpaks and her 30 dollars/month feed, along with the other two also needing joint care and feed. I work a minimum wage job around college. I could cancel her Smartpaks easily, but I fear that would make her condition worse to the point the pain medication can’t help her.

Thank you for caring about her comfort. This may sound a little dumb, but this does make me more optimistic that the Equioxx may help. She’s getting Equioxx because I was worried about Bute. The Bute did seem to help.

Yeah but you can’t do Bute long term. How much Equioxx are you giving? My boy is on 1/4 of a dog dose daily (about 56 mg).

[cocohooves]

@CindyCRNA

Yeah but you can’t do Bute long term. How much Equioxx are you giving? My boy is on 1/4 of a dog dose daily (about 56 mg).

She gets a 57 mg tablet every day. Do you give it to relieve severe pain or manage minor to mid range stiffness/arthritis?

[Simkie]

@CindyCRNA

Yeah but you can’t do Bute long term. How much Equioxx are you giving? My boy is on 1/4 of a dog dose daily (about 56 mg).

A quarter of a large dog dose IS a full sized horse dose. That’s not a “small” horse dose. Unsure if that’s what you were implying?

[cocohooves]

@Simkie

A quarter of a large dog dose IS a full sized horse dose. That’s not a “small” horse dose. Unsure if that’s what you were implying?

Cindy was giving the amount of a Previcoxx given relative to Equioxx.

[dressager]

You need to give a triple dose of equioxx as a loading dose on the first day or wait a week for the drug to reach the same therapeutic level in the blood. This is as per the vets at Merial and my own vet.

We did an alcohol joint injection on a mare about a year ago who had a pastern joint collapse. She could barely walk. They told us it would take several months to fully fuse- she was a retirement case. She had to be on complete stall rest with a very short handwalk daily to monitor lameness. She showed considerable improvement within 2-3 months but still couldn’t exercise much. She is no longer in my care but my understanding is that she is doing well. She was on equioxx or bute the whole time. When she was on bute we gave her tramadol for a period of time as well, but then we switched to equioxx.

[cocohooves]

@dressager Ah, thank you. I wish I’d known that when I started her on the Equioxx.

That’s very encouraging! Thank you so much. Seeing as how Pepper’s ringbone is barely starting to seem to fuse, this could be beneficial. I feel a bit sad thinking about cooping her up for some months, but if it would help her in the long run then it would be worth it. Pepper will always be a pasture pet/companion.

Did you supplement the mare during her time with joint care? If you did, did you feel it necessary?

[Color_of_Light]

@cocohooves

I’m currently waiting for the Equioxx to take effect. It’s been about 4 days now with no change in comfort, which is expected early on but still worries me. The money starts stacking when I factor in her 40 dollars/month Smartpaks and her 30 dollars/month feed, along with the other two also needing joint care and feed. I work a minimum wage job around college. I could cancel her Smartpaks easily, but I fear that would make her condition worse to the point the pain medication can’t help her.
.

I hope you find a solution to her pain. What is in her Smartpaks that you think is helping her so much? If you are not able to afford her treatment and care, maybe a rescue could help?

[cocohooves]

@Color of Light This is the last month of her Smartpaks that have glucosomine, MSM, and probiotics (SmartSenior Herb Free). I can’t say it helped with her pain, but its ingredients are proven to aid joint health. There’s no way it could magically cure Pepper of her severe pain, of course. I recently changed her Smartpaks to SmartTLC (including devils claw, MSM, yucca) and an extra well of MSM so MSM amount adds up to 10,000 hoping it could better help her pain.

My parents do have money but don’t give me any as I’m the sole caretaker of the horses, thus I’d feel bad asking for money from a rescue. I’ll find a way to make ends meet, I just have to be much more diligent about where my money goes (which, for the past year, has gone fully and completely to horses and vet bills, haha…ha). Thank you so much for the suggestion. I’ll definitely consider that in the future.

[Color_of_Light]

@cocohooves

@Color of Light This is the last month of her Smartpaks that have glucosomine, MSM, and probiotics (SmartSenior Herb Free). I can’t say it helped with her pain, but its ingredients are proven to aid joint health. There’s no way it could magically cure Pepper of her severe pain, of course. I recently changed her Smartpaks to SmartTLC (including devils claw, MSM, yucca) and an extra well of MSM so MSM amount adds up to 10,000 hoping it could better help her pain.

My parents do have money but don’t give me any as I’m the sole caretaker of the horses, thus I’d feel bad asking for money from a rescue. I’ll find a way to make ends meet, I just have to be much more diligent about where my money goes (which, for the past year, has gone fully and completely to horses and vet bills, haha…ha). Thank you so much for the suggestion. I’ll definitely consider that in the future.

Subluxation is out of alignment or partially dislocated. She’s constantly lame, swollen pastern? Sounds severe and like she needs some serious veterinary treatment. What did the vet recommend? Why is her pastern out of alignment and can it be put back into alignment? Smartpaks probably won’t help much and are expensive. If you insist on supplements, Santa Cruz Animal Health has a devils claw/yucca supplement called Ultra Relief and powdered MSM for $18/month. Ultra Relief is $32/80 days. MSM is $17/86 days. $49 is $1 short of free shipping. Ask, they might ship free.

Are you able to ride the other two or three horses that you have?

[cocohooves]

@Color of Light Her pastern is indeed out of alignment. It’s “slight”, and could be blamed on unbalanced trimming to an untrained eye. The subluxation is a years old injury. Vet just told me to retire her, keep her on supplements and medication, and keep her trimmed well (biggest issues reappeared after a poor farrier job, which is why she got x-rays in the end).

I’m very worried about her swollen pastern, but I feel stuck. I hope the swelling is related to the ringbone/subluxation and not a new nasty injury. She was run around a week ago by the other two excited for turnout and has been in lots of pain since then. This pattern has occurred on and off since this spring. She gets better, then collapses again. Yesterday’s vet visit cost me 200 dollars more than I thought due to miscommunication with costs (I misinterpreted), so I’m over budget. I’m so tired of not knowing how much the next visit will be and if it’ll be me burning more cash on an unsolvable issue. Ugh. Sorry for the tangent. I just have no idea what’s next. I’m behind on hoof trimming for the other two and am running out of grain for all three. This past month’s unexpected crapshow has me in the red.

My two other mares are unrideable. One of the others was the biggest part of the bill yesterday. She has a massive arthritic growth on her knee that I got x-rayed. My vet has deemed both she and Pepper borderline medical anomalies. As for the third, she is ALSO an anomaly. An arthritic knee that may or may not actually be arthritic but a deformity. Sigh.

[dressager]

Hi… no, we didn’t supplement her with anything- we used bute/tramadol for the first few months but because of the prolonged use we switched the equioxx. IMHO, equioxx helped her more than the other two. We kept her front legs wrapped and the first few weeks she was icing (i don’t think the icing helped).
If money is a consideration I would stay with the solid medications like equioxx and discard the supplements. Focus on the goal which is fusion and minimizing movement.