Alfalfa vs. ration balancer

[BroncoMo]

I usually feed my broodmares, babies, and show horses alfalfa to supplement their free choice grass hay. I also feed Triple Crown; ration balancer to those who don’t need the calories, and senior to those who do (generally the ones on alfalfa as well). I am looking to swap out the alfalfa for either pellets or something else for the sake of convenience; not having to pay for a year of alfalfa up front, not having to haul/stack/store, etc.

Looking at Standlee and Dumore alfalfa pellets, they are substantially lower in protein than my hay; pellets are 15-16%, my hay is 25%. Protein is very important to me, but again, looking to change due to convenience. Does anyone see any reason I couldn’t replace the alfalfa I am currently feeding with some ration balancer? Currently feeding 12-15 pounds of alfalfa to adults.

I can balance rations on my own and can run numbers to compare. But want to check with others, namely JB, to see if I am missing something. I also use soybean meal due to it’s amino acid content. I am aware of alfalfa’s higher calcium and lysine content. But thinking I can make that up with RB. Thoughts? I am delirious from 60+ hour work week and 14 credit hours of college, so I feel like I may be missing something that alfalfa can provide that a RB cannot.

[Bluey]

Our nutritionists call it “the alfalfa factor”.

Any time they use alfalfa, performance just shoots up past expected parameters if you strictly go by the numbers when they formulate rations.

For some reason, you get more from using alfalfa in any ration than what we can measure.
That is expressed best when used as plain alfalfa hay, not processed into cubes or pellets or meal.

Saying that, our veterinarian prepared a horse complete ration for our regional feed mill to sell commercially that is based on alfalfa pellets.
It is working so well, many show stables are feeding only those pellets now, don’t have to carry hay bales around to shows any more, just the feed sacks and their horses are thriving on it.
One previous problem with complete feeds is horses would gobble it all in minutes and not have any other to eat for hours.
This ration horses seem to eat their fill and still have food left to munch along during the day, once they learn is going to be there.

Maybe you can find a similar kind of comlete feed in your region so you don’t have to handle baled hay?
Don’t know how that would work if you don’t feed individually.

[Palm_Beach]

Enough protein is essential, more protein is not beneficial. Excess protein is excreted in the urine. So your horse is literally pissing away money if you are paying for a high quality protein feed source and overfeeding it.

Pellets don’t have the same benefit of actual long stem roughage.

Anecdotes don’t equal evidence.

Protein is important, having access to roughage for as much time as possible throughout the day is critical to a horse’s health. I strive for a balanced diet with the horse having hay or grass 24/7. That may mean I have to feed a lower quality hay (not dusty/moldy, just not as rich in nutrients) so my easy keepers don’t overdo it.

Your best bet is to call Triple Crown. They are real people with real credentials who can steer you in the right direction and meet the needs of your various horses.

[JB]

@BroncoMo

Looking at Standlee and Dumore alfalfa pellets, they are substantially lower in protein than my hay; pellets are 15-16%, my hay is 25%. Protein is very important to me, but again, looking to change due to convenience. Does anyone see any reason I couldn’t replace the alfalfa I am currently feeding with some ration balancer? Currently feeding 12-15 pounds of alfalfa to adults.

But you’re already feeding a RB, correct? 15lb of 25% alfalfa is a lot of protein that is somewhat getting peed out. That’s 1700gm protein - about 70% more than most horses need, depending on their weight and lifestage, and that’s on top of the free choice grass hay, however much of that they’re getting. If the’re eating 15lb of the alfalfa, I’m guessing they’re only eating 10-15lb of the grass hay which, at even 10% protein, is 454-681gm protein. Way, way over-kill on the protein with the current diet.

I also use soybean meal due to it’s amino acid content.

So even MORE protein

I am aware of alfalfa’s higher calcium and lysine content. But thinking I can make that up with RB. Thoughts?

Not when you’re already feeding a RB

1lb of a 30% balancer has 136gm protein. For a later-term mare, you’d be feeding 2-3-4lb, depending on her weight. 5lb of 25% alfalfa hay is 567gm protein. It would take 4lb of a 30% balancer to meet that. Most broodies and youngsters don’t need 4lb.

However, 1-2lb of a RB, plus 2-3lb of alfalfa pellets (at 15% protein = 136-204gm protein) and you’re at anywhere from 272-476gm protein

BUT, the biggest factor is the protein of your grass hay, and how much they are actually eating. As mentioned above, an appropriate level of protein is good, excess is wasted $.

Don’t over-complicate this

20-25lb of 10% grass hay, 5lb of alfalfa pellets at 15%, and you’re at 1248gm protein. And that’s not even yet taking into account the TC30 or TC Sr. 2lb of TC30 adds another 272 so you’re at 1520.

@Palm Beach

Pellets don’t have the same benefit of actual long stem roughage.

They get plenty of hay, so the fact that pellets are not long-stem fiber is irrelevant.

[JB]

I pulled out my NRC book. An 1100lb mare at 11 months gestation needs about 893gm protein. In the first month of nursing it jumps to 1535.

That same horse in “very heavy work” needs about 1000gm.

A 2yo expected to mature to 1100lb, who is in “very heavy exercise” needs about 1091gm.

a 600kg/1320lb horses needs, respectively:
1072, 1842, 1205, and 1309gm protein.

[BroncoMo]

@JB

But you’re already feeding a RB, correct? 15lb of 25% alfalfa is a lot of protein that is somewhat getting peed out. That’s 1700gm protein - about 70% more than most horses need, depending on their weight and lifestage, and that’s on top of the free choice grass hay, however much of that they’re getting. If the’re eating 15lb of the alfalfa, I’m guessing they’re only eating 10-15lb of the grass hay which, at even 10% protein, is 454-681gm protein. Way, way over-kill on the protein with the current diet.

So even MORE protein

Not when you’re already feeding a RB

1lb of a 30% balancer has 136gm protein. For a later-term mare, you’d be feeding 2-3-4lb, depending on her weight. 5lb of 25% alfalfa hay is 567gm protein. It would take 4lb of a 30% balancer to meet that. Most broodies and youngsters don’t need 4lb.

However, 1-2lb of a RB, plus 2-3lb of alfalfa pellets (at 15% protein = 136-204gm protein) and you’re at anywhere from 272-476gm protein

BUT, the biggest factor is the protein of your grass hay, and how much they are actually eating. As mentioned above, an appropriate level of protein is good, excess is wasted $.

Don’t over-complicate this

20-25lb of 10% grass hay, 5lb of alfalfa pellets at 15%, and you’re at 1248gm protein. And that’s not even yet taking into account the TC30 or TC Sr. 2lb of TC30 adds another 272 so you’re at 1520.

They get plenty of hay, so the fact that pellets are not long-stem fiber is irrelevant.

Ok so I can clarify some. They are all on free choice grass hay. Not great quality. I’ve had previous years tested and it comes in around 4% protein. This year looks substantially better but I have not had the chance to test it yet. It’s pretty low on numbers across the board, mature and stemmy high mountain desert grass. But I trade use of land to the cattle rancher for hay. It’s a great deal for both of us, so this aspect will not change. I came to terms long ago that their forage comes from the grass hay and that’s about it. I have to make up the rest of their requirements through concentrates and better source quality supplementation.

Early term broodmares are on TC ration balancer and no alfalfa, and maintaining well. Weanlings, show horses, and lactating mares (all weaned now) are on TC senior. Show horses are the ones getting around 12-15 pounds of alfalfa, the weanlings are still getting worked up to an appropriate amount.

I am am aware that excess protein is just pissed away and I can easily tell when this is taking place as water consumption goes way up and, well, we can all tell when urine output is high. This is not the case at the moment. I am actually very happy with how those with higher protein needs are maintaining. But it’s that time of year when I need to either commit to the amount of baled alfalfa I need, or I look at changing.

The three show geldings… I can tell a difference when I take them off soybean meal. Or drop their alfalfa. Considering the low protein content of my grass hay, their need for protein from other sources is fairly high. So the question is, if I decide to forgo baled alfalfa this year, what do I replace with? JB I appreciate you crunching numbers as my I have overloaded myself on college classes and my brain is fried. Already. Oh, and one of my lovely drama queens will not eat any powder. So soybean mean for him is out of the question. Just trying to decide if I can replace the amount of protein from baled alfalfa with something more convenient.

[BroncoMo]

Just throwing this out there, perhaps it’s the amino acid content that is lacking when I drop the higher protein feeds, and not the percentage of protein itself. Because just TC senior and grass hay alone don’t cut it. So perhaps I can drop the alfalfa without losing top line, supplement some soybean where needed, and alfalfa pellets to the princess himself who won’t touch powder.

[JB]

I certainly didn’t expect you to say the grass hay is in the mid-single digits protein 15lb of 4% is 272gm protein - the same as 2lb of a 30% balancer. Do you have any idea how much grass hay the horses are actually eating?

The numbers I listed are for crude protein, and you can’t get to that with just amino acid supplements, so you really do need a quality protein source.

You COULD split the difference - half alf hay and half alf pellets. Depending on how many lb of the TC 30 and Sr each horse gets, you could bump that up a little as well.

[BroncoMo]

@JB

I certainly didn’t expect you to say the grass hay is in the mid-single digits protein 15lb of 4% is 272gm protein - the same as 2lb of a 30% balancer. Do you have any idea how much grass hay the horses are actually eating?

The numbers I listed are for crude protein, and you can’t get to that with just amino acid supplements, so you really do need a quality protein source.

You COULD split the difference - half alf hay and half alf pellets. Depending on how many lb of the TC 30 and Sr each horse gets, you could bump that up a little as well.

Yep it’s crappy. Again, I need to test this years hay as it is much better looking and less mature than years past. But… they’re round bales, stored outside. The nutritional content is just going to degrade throughout the year.

Its very hard to tell how much they are eating. I’ll try to document how long it takes to go through a bale. I figure 3% if their body weight for planning purposes but that is simply to give me some wiggle room. Most of the horses are in the 1300 pound range, and a good number are 1400 pounds.

for reference, the biggest show geldings is on 8 pounds of senior, the two year old and the princess are on 10 pounds (that’s per day). Early gestation mares are on a pound of balancer, through it seems their pregnant metabolism has kicked in and are eating substantially more hay now. I am anticipating needing to adjust their RB very soon as winter approaches and they get further along in gestation. Through now that I’ve typed all this these mares are not of concern just yet as they are maintaining very well on this regimen.

[JB]

Hay loses very little nutritional value beyond whatever it’s going to lose in the first couple of weeks, which is Vit E and, as the green color fades, Vit A (which is much lower in grass hay to start with, vs alfalfa). So even a round bale sitting out is as good now as it was shortly after being baled

[BroncoMo]

@JB

Hay loses very little nutritional value beyond whatever it’s going to lose in the first couple of weeks, which is Vit E and, as the green color fades, Vit A (which is much lower in grass hay to start with, vs alfalfa). So even a round bale sitting out is as good now as it was shortly after being baled

Well that’s good to know. This year I intend to test now (put up about a month ago) and again at the end of next spring to see if it drops at all. I was giving previous years hay too much credit then. I blamed its crappy content on having sat outside in the weather. Guess he just put it up too late. And it’s just native grass. I should find out sometime what it actually is but certainly not seeded brome/Timothy or anything like that.