All Warmblood lovers- Help!!!!!

[Tammy_Fox]

I need your help! I have just recently acquired my first Warmblood and I love him, but I need help. We live in Central North Carolina.

I dont know anything about his previous owners or his history and would love to find out more. Also I have one major issue with him which has proven to be a safety concern.

First, He is a Bavarian Warmblood and is branded. He is a big chestnut with one white rear sock. He is about 17.1 hands and he is close to 18 years of age. I would like to research his brand to see if I can gain info (history) from his number, but I cant find any information on how or where to search?

Second, my instructor thinks she remembers seeing him at some shows and thinks his Owner was Lorie Enloe. Anyone know her? His name is Dunhill. I was told he competed in at least second level dressage, did some low level jumping and possibly Fox hunted over the years. Anyone have any information? I also have been told he came from the Southern Pines area.

Third… and my safety concern. He falls down when standing up to sleep. I have done some research and know it has to do with the staying aparatus and the inability to lock it. I also know it can be caused from the cutting of the patalla ligament or stifle issues. I cannot find any information on treatment, prevention or any ideas on protecting him from hurting himself etc… Any info is greatly appreciated and thank you.

[STF]

He falls down??
WOW, def pad his stall REALLY well.

[Rival]

My friend had a mare that did that. They just made sure she had a big quiet stall and bedded it deeply with straw. Anything you can do to encourage your horse to lie down to sleep will help.

In my area I think we will be seeing increasing numbers of this problem as everyone is switching from hogfuel to crusher rock. Another friends horse was boarding at a place with crusher rock paddocks (with stalls attached) and it wasn’t until we spent a couple of nights at the barn watching a colic that we realized quite a few horses were falling down while sleeping at night. We figured out that the common link was that none of them would lie down on the crusher rock and for whatever reason they weren’t comfortable going in to their stalls to sleep. When my friend moved her horse to a place with sand and hog fuel the mare rolled about twenty times the first day and the sleeping issue has completely disappeared. So while this is just my research my recommendations for sleeping disorders is to make sure you always have a soft clean quiet area large enough for your horse to lie down and be comfortable.

[hessy35]

Maybe your Dunhill is by the stallion Dunhill H -

DUNHILL H 1990 DkBr 169cm Westphalian. [410384090]. International Grand Prix dressage stallion. Körung 1992 Münster. HLP 1993 Münster-Handorf: DRE 147.69 (1st) SPR 138.66 (1st) INDEX 153.47, 1st of 75. 1993 first year at stud. 1994 NRW Reitpferdechampion. 1995 Bundeschampionat: 3rd place. 2nd place: Grand Prix Freestyle in Aachen. 2nd place: Grand Prix Dressage at the World Cup in Lipiza. Sire: Diamantino, Dam: Renaissance.

[Boomer]

When I had my horses boarded in Tryon, NC there was a gelding there that had narcolepsy - I seem to think that he’d fall asleep around feeding time. I don’t think anyone rode him.

This was 2000ish so I’m pretty foggy on details.

[SBF]

Rival posted some good information. Have you ever seen your horse lay down to sleep? If not he is probably sleep deprived. This can happen when a horse is uncomfortable laying down, either for physical reasons or because of something in his environment.

[cloudyandcallie]

brand

does he have any numbers under his brand? (like part of his life number)

[Tammy_Fox]

Thanks for your replies.

I have thought of narcolepsy but everything I have read says narcoleptic horses tend to fall asleep at unopportuned times…like during exercise or while eating etc… He is obviously at rest and trying to sleep. He does seem to catch himself before falling completely down, but I do see scrapes/cuts on his hocks.

He has every opportunity to lay down to sleep. He has turn-out of about 15 hours a day in a seven acre pasture with two other buddies. He is also the boss.

He is stalled for about 8 hours each day, but his stall is big 12 x 15 with plenty of shavings. With the exception of some shavings on him now and then I do not see any evidence of him laying down to sleep. I have watched him get up when I see him role and I cannot see any signs of difficulty getting up. My vet says that even his his patella is cut most horses especially his age tend to figure it out and will lay down to sleep more often. So she doesn’t know what else to do either.

I tend to agree he is sleep deprived but not really sure of why??? or what else to do to help. Any other ideas?

Yes he does have numbers- 882 underneath the Bavarian Brand.

I know when I was doing some research I found the famous stallion Dunhill and wondered if they were related. That would be awesome.

Keep the replies coming.

[cloudyandcallie]

numbers

ok, most German horses have part of their life number tattooed on their hip or neck, for identification purposes in case their papers are lost or not available.
for example, mine being Hessen has 2 numbers out of his life # tattooed on his hip.
hannovarians have 3 of their digits from their life numbers tattooed on them.
so you Bavarian has 3 #s from his life # on his hip–probably.
so I assume, unless the american registries are doing this, and I know absolutely nothing about american wb registries, just german ones, that maybe your boy is imported from europe?
I just looked at my “Warmblood Guidebook” , an english publication I bought off of amazon.com 7 years ago when I purchased my wb.
I think that when you find his registration, it will have an 81 to begin with, which, someone correct me if i am wrong, is the german stud book registry for Bavarians.
the last digits in his life #, whichyou don’t have now, will show the year born.
here’s an example:
my Hessen is 61-30436-95. 61 signifies he is Hessen (there can be more than one set of #s depending on the popularity of the breed), and the 30436 signifies the breeding station and the # of the covered mare (36th mare )covered that season, and the 95 signifies the year born.
so you can maybe contact the bavarian stud in germany, and give them the 3 numbers you have, and that might enable them to find out who your horse is.
I received my horse’s papers from the importer, but I did contact the Hessen stud in germany and they were very cooperative in helping me find out information about his sire (unfortunately I have bee unable to find his dam).
so I recommend a search on the web, an email to germany to the stud, and hopefully they can help.
If there is a Bavarian stud here in the states, well I didn’t check to see where you live, but if so here, you can check thru them.
I never found any Hessen stud registry here so I had to go thru Germany.
so with 3 digits of your horse’s life number, you have a starting point to try to find him in a German registry.
good luck.

[cloudyandcallie]

lying down

I don’t know what the problem is with your horse but…
some horses won’t lie down in company. when my mare was the only mare out with 10 geldings, my Hessen and all others except one outcast unsocialiized gelding and my ottb mare would lie down and sleep. My mare always came into her stall to sleep lying down.

[monicabee]

Some geldings will not lie down to sleep unless there is a mare around to stand guard - at least according to an Equus article a few years back. The article suggested that they were then lacking in REM sleep and were often casually diagnosed as narcoloptic, which they weren’t - just sleep deprived.

There was a horse at my a barn, a really tall TB, who had a tendency to fall asleep in the cross ties and then almost go down or while standing to sleep in the pasture he would in fact fall. Bedding his stall really really deeply helped. There were mares in the next field that he would stand next to when he could (he was a bit of a rowdy and no one volunteered to turn their mare out with him). He was also rather an insecure horse on the ground and under saddle, or maybe it would be truer to say a very emotional one.

In your horse’s case, maybe he is worried by being the boss over the others and is not resting. Do the other horses lie down?

[Tammy_Fox]

Monica, interesting thoughts.

There is no mare in his pasture. I have 3 geldings. One lays down all of the time and the other will lay now and then. Do you remember anything else the article said as to how to help, other than put a mare in?

He seems to be a very secure horse on the ground and under saddle. Extremely confident.

cloudy- thanks for the info- it does help. I have tried to find a register but cannot. The only thing I found is a British Bavarian Association. I have emailed but have heard nothing.

Do I have to go directly to a Bavarian register or can any warmblood register help? If so do you have numbers, emails, websites etc… I have looked several times on line and really do not know where to go to find info on him.

[SBF]

Agree with Monicabee, and if changing his environment does not help you could always try a course of bute to see if it makes any difference. If it does, he could have some physical discomfort somewhere.

Also CloudyandCallie provided good info on the brand and registration numbers. Assuming your horse is 18 years old, his registration number will be 81-xx882-90. There is not a Bavarian registry in the US; you would have to contact the Bavarian registry in Germany for more info and to find out the rest of his registration number.

[cloudyandcallie]

try this

ok, use previous poster’s info, and try this:
www.bayerns-pferde.de
that’s bayerns for bavaria in deutschland.
fortunately most Germans know english, as my college German is spotty.
now if your boy wasn’t a stud over there, they may refer you to a performance registry. While I have papers on my boy, since he was not a stud at the stallion station, he went to a performance registry.
but they may also have some info on the mare, if she was covered and the number shows that, as there aren’t that many bayerns stations. The fewer the horses in the registry, the more likely you are to be able to track your horse down. And you can ask them how many stallions were standing at their stud that year (hope you have the right year) and their colors, etc., to maybe narrow down who is his vater.
hope they can ascertain the stud and mare for you.
lots of fun trying to find out, as you will see just how much tb is in your boy. My Hessen, from Germany descended from Man O’War thru War Relic. small world, especially in the tb community.
will look at my other warmblood horse book later to see if any more help.

[Tammy_Fox]

cloudy, thanks again for all your help. The website looks very informative but I am afraid I do not know one word of German. LOL! I will keep trying though.

[cloudyandcallie]

email them

the Germans know english a lot better than we all speak Deutsch.
email them and they will get back to you.
give them as much info as you have.
and then ask them to refer you to any other bavarian websites if they cannot help you.
and good luck. glad you got a German boy. they are very nice…but very teutonic. be patient, they think we are their servants.:yes:

actually, trying to communcate in college German is a lot easier than reading an ottb’s tattoo.

[indigoshorses]

Narcolepsy

I’d just like to toss in a couple of words about narcolepsy. My tb had it for about 6 years as a lasting complication of EPM. Although while the EPM was active he did have random spells triggered by odd things (i.e. having his lower legs clipped or even sometimes just having boots put on or off, standing still after a lesson while I talked to the trainer–always had to keep him walking), after treatment (when the narcolepsy was much milder) he would frequently fall to his knees while resting. He would look to be just dozing but his head would get lower and lower and he would fall to his knees. He would then wake up and it would usually repeat itself.

For him, spending more time outside helped because he could keep himself moving. While stalled, we kept his bedding very thick, but he tended to weave to keep himself alert. In his case, I do wonder if it was a perpetuating cycle of narcolepsy leading to sleep deprivation, triggering more narcolepsy (however, he was diagnosed as narcoleptic by several different vets).

Don’t know if that’s any help, but I like to throw it out there because most descriptions of narcolepsy you read about are the severe cases where the horse will collapse in the middle of being very active.