Allowing posting at med and ext trot through Fourth

Link?

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/allow-rising-trot-on-the-path-forward-for-dressage/

6 Likes

I agree. Be consistent.

Besides, there are so many amazing and aging trainers around. I’d rather be easier on their bodies so they can keep riding than force them to sit to make a point!

Somewhat related: I’ve been doing huge numbers of transitions to build my horse’s strength, and discovered I could not post and do 2-3 strides of medium then back to collected trot. As long as I was sitting, it was easy. I’ve been finding I actually prefer posting leg yields because I can better keep tempo with my post, as I have nerve damage in my seat which blocks my leg yields left. (Oddly, half pass sitting has become beautiful… just the leg yield is a struggle for me.)

7 Likes

You’ll get no argument from me that leg yields are easier to do posting.

1 Like

I’m a yes. Allow posting. It’s better for the horses.

3 Likes

My coach’s opinion: Allow posting. Riders who cant sit well cant get a good medium etc sitting. They may be able to get an adequate one while posting But riders who can sit well can often get a better medium sitting than posting. And that ability to sit will likely result in a better medium than those who must post can achieve.

7 Likes

Aren’t the horses being judged and not the riders for each movement anyway? Let us post if we want and take it off the rider score - if you post in a 2nd or above test you can’t get above a 6 on that score. Something like that.
If our horse goes better with us sitting but we choose to post than the scores for each movement will reflect that, but we can still do the test and not hurt our bodies. A horse who does a 10-m circle for a 7 is a horse who gets a 7 for that movement regardless of what the monkey on their back is doing. The scores will fairly reflect our rides, so we don’t need separate classes or anything crazy like that (it would be a nightmare for show organizers).
We’re mainly amateurs who do this for fun; it’s not fun when you can’t walk the next day. For trainers, if they can’t work because their back hurts from sitting at the weekend show they can’t eat. It’s a win for everyone.

7 Likes

In short, no. The judge is assessing the rider throughout the test and then gives the rider score.

Many judges will comment on the rider in individual movements if they feel it is warranted. Stuff like “tactfully ridden” or “rider pulling horse’s head to inside” etc.

I wouldn’t agree with setting a score of no better than 6 if a rider didn’t post, they may do everything else well so, to me, a 7 (fairly good) could be warranted.

9 Likes

This request is a common one. It makes me wonder (not picking on you specifically, pluvinel) does anyone actually read the Chronicle, or do they just come on here for the forums? When you sign on, do you not see the front page of the Chronicle with all the recent articles posted? I just watched the “Why They Won” video. It seems weird to me that folks don’t read the magazine, they just come for the forums.

5 Likes

Agreed. My initial reaction to this suggestion was, no, but how about a set deduction? But, on further thought, no, if the rider is riding the horse to an 8 or 9 (or a 5 or 6) that should be the mark received otherwise I think the purpose of allowing rising trot is defeated and you’ll get people who maybe shouldn’t be sitting (for human health or horse welfare) sit anyway for fear of incurring the automatic deduction for posting the trot.

3 Likes

I dont read the Chronicle. When I open the forums I dont see the front page of the magazine.

6 Likes

Therein lies the rub. It’s not that people want to be able to post for the good of their horses or bodies, they (ETA: clarification, some people) want to be able to post at higher levels and not be penalized for not sitting.

This is why I think it’s best to offer a separate division for those that want to post. It will be a more level playing field for those who want ribbons. That isn’t meant as an insult.

For those that disagree, please show me another sport/competition where the standards are lowered/different based on the athletes’ abilities. Heck, remember this gal in the news recently? A Belgian shot putter ran the 100m hurdles so that her team had an entry, she wasn’t looking for a head start or lower hurdles. That’s sportswomanship IMO.

4 Likes

No, I go directly to the forums.

2 Likes

If a rider can get the same or better trot work while posting how is that “lowering the standards?”

Sports change all the time. I mean, hey, look at the swim cap bruhaha. Look at the way bicycles have changed. Running technique.

But more than that, we’re talking about the way the sport needlessly omits people with some physical issues beyond the lowest of the low levels, and does not take horse welfare as the absolute priority over all else.

Yes, your example of the Belgian shot-putter is a great example of sportsmanship. I don’t see how that has anything to do with posting trot? Nobody said, you’re going to be too slow, you don’t have a sprinter’s body, your technique is terrible.

The whole ‘no way to posting trot’ thing just reeks of “since I had to do it, everyone should have to do it” closed-minded type of argument that puts tradition above all else. It doesn’t really speak to sportsmanship at all. It speaks to exclusion.

Times change. We gain more knowledge of how our bodies work and luckily, lots of people have discovered that they don’t have to give up their beloved sport because they CAN ride just as well in posting trot. If we would only allow them to compete on a level playing field, we might learn some really interesting stuff about what can be accomplished when a rider puts their mind to it and doesn’t rely so heavily on their physicality.

I find it really interesting to reflect that 30 years ago, no way in hell would I have been in favour of this potential rule change. I just didn’t get it. I get it now and would dearly love to keep more people in the sport, climbing the levels and meeting their goals and not having to quit or ride only at home. Sitting trot isn’t a hill to have to die on anymore, imo.

21 Likes

^^ Already addressed in numerous posts above

None of your examples are changing standards based on athletes’ abilities (see my post above). If anything, standards are increasing as athletes and equipment improve. There are many examples of this in dressage too, just look at video from the Olympics in the 60s and compare to horses today.

The sport itself isn’t excluding anyone, anyone can still ride. We’re talking about competition requirements. It’s like running; anyone can run but only the fastest runners go to the Olympics.

Even you are literally saying that people should not be penalized for posting the trot where it currently is required to sit.

I find your argument reeks of “participation trophy” attitude. My point is still that that moving up the levels requires improvement of both horse and rider. I find it really interesting that in the other thread about moving from 1st to 2nd, there is a lot of discussion of how the horse needs to improve but I didn’t see anything about the rider. Claiming that it’s some punitive plot by those that can sit the trot to make people suffer seems to reflect a lack of understanding of the sport. Again, that’s just my opinion.

That all said, I’m fine with people posting the trot if they want to. I just believe that if you want a level playing field then having a separate division is the way to go. If you want to believe that effectively posting the trot is the same level of difficulty as effectively sitting the trot; well, I think you’re wrong.

A separate division would provide a level playing field. Again, nobody is being forced to give up riding. You keep making it ever clearer that your concern is showing; not riding in general or horse welfare.

Yes, we definitely need the sport to be welcoming and more people involved. That’s why I believe a separate division is a great idea. I think it’s better than getting spanked by better riders even more than we mortals are already. Years ago, AQHA (the world’s largest breed registry) instituted the Novice program to allow people new to showing to have classes separate from the very well experienced amateurs. (Side note, I was in an amateur HUS class once, had a great go on a nice horse and ended up 6th behind 3 past World Champions and 2 past Reserve World Champions).

5 Likes

I didn’t realize there was a 4th level Olympics? Even a national level FEI Olympics? Awesome, I really am gearing up for the Olympics! Woohoo!

Correct. Your point? Why should a rider who is riding an 8 or 9 not receive an 8 or 9?

No, it actually wouldn’t.

The hell? Those are my concerns above all else - good riding and excellent horse welfare and how they go hand in hand.

What does AQHA have to do with ANYTHING? How does a novice HUS saddle class compare to climbing the levels in dressage. It doesn’t.

Once again, please give your head a shake. We are not talking about changing rules at the Olympics for Pete’s sake. We’re talking about actually giving a crap about riders with issues and about horses who may be ‘saddled’ lol with riders who are capable but for whatever reason do not HELP the horse by sitting.

8 Likes

Explain why it wouldn’t, please.

4 Likes

And we arent talking about International Competition either. Or even National FEI level classes.

6 Likes

Because, I am pretty sure whatever division is created will not have year end awards, scores towards Regionals (even if Regional Championships require posting), or points towards medals (yes, I realize medals are “rider awards”. Frankly I am OK with this aspect). etc etc.
Additionally, this is a big added burden on show managers - gonna bet some dont put those classes on the schedule.

5 Likes

All of that is ok with me. I believe there can be found a way to do this without creating a lot of mishegas for show managers.

2 Likes