Allowing posting at med and ext trot through Fourth

[luvmyhackney]

I wish they would make the medical exception rule more accepting and allow those with documented issues to post at the higher levels vs everyone being able.

I’m working really hard to be fit enough to sit my horses trot as that’s a great rider milestone to move up on my end. It takes away some of the feeling of achievement if I can just post to get there, feels like a shortcut. I can already post but sitting trot requires so much more fitness.

Not everyone is entitled to show the higher levels just like my running times aren’t good enough for me to run at the Boston marathon even though I would love too. I would have to put the time in and train appropriately just like learning the sitting trot.

[Knights_Mom]

@atlatl

Therein lies the rub. It’s not that people want to be able to post for the good of their horses or bodies, they (ETA: clarification, some people) want to be able to post at higher levels and not be penalized for not sitting.

I disagree. The majority of people want what’s best for their horse.

[lorilu]

@luvmyhackney

just like learning the sitting trot

its not about “learning”… its about being unable.

[atlatl]

@sascha

We’re talking about actually giving a crap about riders with issues and about horses who may be ‘saddled’ lol with riders who are capable but for whatever reason do not HELP the horse by sitting.

In competition, hence the AQHA example of a separate division.

[atlatl]

@lorilu

@atlatl

. It’s like running; anyone can run but only the fastest runners go to the Olympics.

And we arent talking about International Competition either. Or even National FEI level classes.

My point, apparently poorly conveyed, is that we’re talking about competition.

[atlatl]

@Knights_Mom

@atlatl

Therein lies the rub. It’s not that people want to be able to post for the good of their horses or bodies, they (ETA: clarification, some people) want to be able to post at higher levels and not be penalized for not sitting.

I disagree. The majority of people want what’s best for their horse.

I agree that most people do want what’s best for their horses, but this conversation is about competition, which the horses couldn’t care less about.

Are you too in the “not a different division” camp? If so, why?

[atlatl]

@lorilu

Because, I am pretty sure whatever division is created will not have year end awards, scores towards Regionals (even if Regional Championships require posting), or points towards medals (yes, I realize medals are “rider awards”. Frankly I am OK with this aspect). etc etc.
Additionally, this is a big added burden on show managers - gonna bet some dont put those classes on the schedule.

I suspect that if people sign up, show managers will run the classes.

Nobody signed up for the rider tests, hence their demise.

So is your issue with a separate division that you think there won’t be prizes?

[Knights_Mom]

@atlatl

@Knights_Mom

@atlatl

Therein lies the rub. It’s not that people want to be able to post for the good of their horses or bodies, they (ETA: clarification, some people) want to be able to post at higher levels and not be penalized for not sitting.

I disagree. The majority of people want what’s best for their horse.

I agree that most people do want what’s best for their horses, but this conversation is about competition, which the horses couldn’t care less about.

Are you too in the “not a different division” camp? If so, why?

I am. Because the test calls for a certain gait and whether it’s done sitting or rising is a determination the rider should make based on the needs of the horse. This decision and implementation is EXACTLY what “horsemanship” is. Correct horsemanship is not just aids and position. It’s the skill of knowledge and decisions too so why shouldn’t that particular skill set also count?

[atlatl]

I agree with much of what you say but would add that horsemanship includes the decision of whether a horse and rider is ready to compete at a certain level.

[Knights_Mom]

Maybe don’t think of it as a “could” but rather a “should”?

[luvmyhackney]

Which is why medical approvals for those medically unable.

Competitive riding is a sport and should be treated as such.

[SillyHorse]

@Knights_Mom

Because the test calls for a certain gait and whether it’s done sitting or rising is a determination the rider should make based on the needs of the horse. This decision and implementation is EXACTLY what “horsemanship” is. Correct horsemanship is not just aids and position. It’s the skill of knowledge and decisions too so why shouldn’t that particular skill set also count?

I think our paralympians would disagree.

[SBrentnall]

The difference is that in THOSE sports, it the human participant who’s being judged. In dressage, it’s the horse. The rider only accounts for a single score, so if they want to blow that score to get better movement from their horse, why shouldn’t they be allowed to?

[atlatl]

@SBrentnall

The difference is that in THOSE sports, it the human participant who’s being judged. In dressage, it’s the horse. The rider only accounts for a single score, so if they want to blow that score to get better movement from their horse, why shouldn’t they be allowed to?

May I suggest you audit an L program. I suspect you will be surprised about what goes into each score and how the rider score is the reflection of the entire ride.

[Knights_Mom]

@SillyHorse

@Knights_Mom

Because the test calls for a certain gait and whether it’s done sitting or rising is a determination the rider should make based on the needs of the horse. This decision and implementation is EXACTLY what “horsemanship” is. Correct horsemanship is not just aids and position. It’s the skill of knowledge and decisions too so why shouldn’t that particular skill set also count?

I think our paralympians would disagree.

Please explain.

[lorilu]

No. I think if there is no possibility of year end awards folks won’t enter it.
A similar situation is what sank the rider tests. They counted towards the “three tests a day” limit but didn’t have any award’s associated with them.

[SillyHorse]

Here’s the main thing, paralympics aside. The original reason for the movement to allow posting in the medium and extended trots is that many aging riders simply don’t have the core strength and flexibility in their backs to allow them to sit these gaits. Some, maybe not at all old, have rods in their backs or other issues that prevent them from sitting these movements. Other than that, they are able to ride a 2nd, 3rd, and/or 4th level test just fine. Why should they be forced either to stop competing, or to compete to the detriment of their horses’ comfort?

@lorilu

I think if there is no possibility of year end awards folks won’t enter it.

I disagree. Not everyone competes with the goal of year end awards. Most people I know compete because they love the atmosphere, they love getting their horses out in public, they love the competition of the show, they want feedback from judges, and they just plain enjoy it.

@lorilu

A similar situation is what sank the rider tests.

I’m not so sure. The rider tests were hard (as they should have been) and required a pretty special, unflappable, compliant horse. This is why there are specialized equitation horses in the hunter world.

[Knights_Mom]

@SillyHorse

Here’s the main thing, paralympics aside. The original reason for the movement to allow posting in the medium and extended trots is that many aging riders simply don’t have the core strength and flexibility in their backs to allow them to sit these gaits. Some, maybe not at all old, have rods in their backs or other issues that prevent them from sitting these movements. Other than that, they are able to ride a 2nd, 3rd, and/or 4th level test just fine. Why should they be forced either to stop competing, or to compete to the detriment of their horses’ comfort?

@lorilu

I think if there is no possibility of year end awards folks won’t enter it.

I disagree. Not everyone competes with the goal of year end awards. Most people I know compete because they love the atmosphere, they love getting their horses out in public, they love the competition of the show, they want feedback from judges, and they just plain enjoy it.

You must have misinterpreted what I wrote. I agree with you. My point focused on horse welfare. Yours on rider health. They are connected as it’s rider physical issues which keep them from sitting. We are on the same team.

[Gardenhorse]

Sports change. I mean dressage now allows brightly colored jackets. The directives are updated every time they update the tests. It’s not like they were handed down on stone tablets. Changing them isn’t going to get you struck down by a bolt of lightning.

[netg]

My brother plays in the Men’s Senior Baseball League. Like most of us, it is full of people who love their sport and want to compete in it regardless of age, and even if limited by injury. The league includes former professional baseball players, former professionals from other sports, men who love baseball and want to play despite no chance at a profession, and guys like my brother who chose professional careers and to keep baseball fun despite having opportunities to have careers in baseball (coaching.) Just a wide variety. The following rule is established by their national federation:

> Players that will need courtesy runners must have their manager notify the opposing manager and home plate umpire at the home plate meeting. Otherwise, the opposing manager has the right to refuse the courtesy runner. Each team will be allowed a maximum of two players per game who can be classified as needing a courtesy runner. Each time a designated player reaches base, he will call time out and at that point will be replaced by the last batted out.

No justification and dispensation needed- my brother used a courtesy runner when he had an injured hamstring, for years he had a guy well past retirement on his team who wasn’t up to running, sometimes a team just has someone who is painfully slow.

Baseball is still a sport, but these aren’t the major leagues - this is hobby competition people are paying to do. Much like USEF dressage competitions.

All the local leagues for various sports have even more relaxed rules because they know the value of including everyone. I think most of us agree well ridden sitting gaits tend to get the best balance and quality out of a horse. But posting with a back injury or recovering from an injury and not ready to sit yet or a horse is extra tense and needs posting to not go acrobatic - it doesn’t matter, we all know the ideal and that none of us are going to be ideal, as even Olympic riders gave yet to score as ideal. So why not make the sport the best it can be for every one of us? I’m hopefully nowhere near needing this rule, but if I did I sure would be glad for it, and without it USEF and USDF would never see any more of my money.