I was sitting all my trot work until back issues arose 2+ years ago - at 68. There was a period of time that I couldn’t manage real shoulder in on my I-1+ horse. Thanks to PT and hard work, I’m much improved but still cant manage a full diagonal extension w/out some bouncing around. Stepped back to 4th freestyle where I could do shorter distances for that movement. Gave up goal of GP. But really have no desire to show my FEI horse at 2nd level. Oh well.
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IDK, my horse was champion at both his shows at First Level this spring before I moved him up to Second, where we were middle of the pack (except day 1 where my trainer rode him and won). Still got a qualifying score for Regionals despite an error (walked right by the walk pirouettes like the idiot I am!)
I doubt very much my competitors would appreciate me staying at First Level forever. It doesn’t seem really fair to them to have to show against my horse with scores over 70% at Second at USDF shows. It’s more sportsmanlike to show at Second, I think. It’s where the horse is, and I can do it, even if it is painful. What’s wrong with moving up? If the movements are not correct, they’ll get a score that reflects it.
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I would think it would be the opposite, that those who want a rule allowing posting are MORE concerned about horse welfare. Less hammering around on the horse’s back.
But really, rider and overall scores are going to take care of that and reflect on bad riding and perhaps encourage people to either sit, or post, or take more lessons and thus contribute to horse welfare.
Besides, the argument by several has been to put in a separate division. That doesn’t exactly mean they’re concerned about horse welfare.
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Honestly, if someone sits the trot and their sitting trot is bad enough that they are killing the gait and they think posting riders have an advantage…maybe they should be posting themselves if “horse’s benefit” is the goal.
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I don’t have a problem with anyone showing whatever level they want, posting or otherwise. My point is simply that both riders and horses are expected to develop through the levels and the ability to sit the med and ext gaits is part of that development and scores should/will reflect that.
Yes, we all age and have physical limitations. I was never going to be a ballerina with my Northern European hips.
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I don’t think they do though. The directives don’t discuss rider at all for the mediums. That’s only in the collectives, so it won’t affect the score much EXCEPT to the extent it impacts the execution of medium itself.
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I didn’t realize it was that hard to qualify for para, my apologies. But I stand by what I said. I knew it wouldn’t be a popular point of view. I respect other peoples perspectives. I also don’t understand the rationale behind denying minor accommodations for riders who need them. The playing field in dressage competition is not and never has been level. Hence, why I am not in Florida with 7 figure horses under me. 
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I think that’s a good point. But if they aren’t interested in ribbons and only want the score. Why not just clinic and get your pro/judge level feedback that way. It’s less expensive, even with the BNTs. And you can post to your heart’s content.
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I’m very sorry you had to give up your goal. If Ms. Lamping gets this rule change accomplished, it still wouldn’t help you though. 
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It absolutely would help her, because she could do 4th level and post in the mediums and extendeds, lessening her pain. Now she has to sit and it hurts her.
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This is maybe a devil’s advocate question.
If horse welfare is of interest, and pushing for the biggest extensions contributes to the prevalence of suspensory issues, could we not improve welfare by scoring the extended trot somewhat differently, encouraging not so huge movement.
Kills two birds with one stone if the “too big” gaits are what is making sitting too difficult?
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My point was that some of us have made the decision to back off rather than pursue something that is hard on us (and maybe the horse). In my case it was more than just the sitting trot, it was an overall strength issue to keep the collection as well. I am able to ride respectable 4th level tests ex the extension challenges and the freestyle gave me the flexibility to limit that issue but to still feel somewhat challenged in my riding.
I can see both sides of this discussion. I get the points you make about the goals and criteria for the levels.
And if 100 people say “yes” to Natalie’s proposal, I dont know how many of those are “old and hurting” vs how many are not well trained or not fit or dont want to work hard. And who knows how many of the responders do much showing.
But I’m not going to complain if two lines of my freestyle could be a little easier/longer.
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How fortunate for you that you have missed the ravages of arthritis and experienced no accidents that have impaired your riding ability. Your lack of empathy for those who would like to continue showing and not hurt their horses or hurt their own body is telling. Your lack of knowledge about Para dressage is also telling. Para dressage is not for individuals who are experiencing the wear and tear of everyday life.
From the FEI MANUAL FOR CLASSIFIERS GRADES AND PROFILES: PARA DRESSAGE
Grade V Para Dressage
Athletes in Grade V have a mild Impairment of movement or muscle strength or a deficiency of
one limb or mild deficiency of two limbs. Grade V also includes Athletes with visual Impairment
equivalent to B2 with a higher visual acuity than visually impaired Athletes competing in Grade
IV and/or a visual field of less than 5 degrees radius.
Hypermobility of joints, joint
instability, and acute conditions, such as arthritis, are not considered
eligible Impairments.
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No sorry, of course you are right. I meant the new rule would not help her achieve her GP goal.
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Whoa, there friend. Please calm down.
I do not lack empathy. And if you think I have somehow “missed the ravages of arthritis,” you are sadly mistaken. I’ve ridden with pain that most people can’t imagine in their worst nightmares. I’ve had BOTH hips replaced. Here’s the thing, I bear no ill will toward folks who want to continue showing even when it has become difficult for them. That’s why I got my hips replaced, so it wouldn’t continue to cause me pain, and so my horrible stiffness wouldn’t harm my horse. I feel for the folks who have to step down some because they have infirmities.
I have no reason to know anything about Para dressage. So what, exactly, is that “telling” you about me? I stand by what I posted. And, as I posted, YMMV. Let’s put it this way: were I to get to a point where I could no longer show at a level that I wanted to because it made me and/or my horse too uncomfortable, I wouldn’t show anymore. That’s me. But you don’t need to be so defensive. I’m not criticizing anyone.
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I’ve worked with para riders and your advice to go be a para rider if you can’t sit the trot because you find it’s difficult because of wear and tear, age related health issues is offensive. Perhaps you should have educate your self about para dressage before recommending riders should go that route if they can’t sit medium trot and/or trot extensions.
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Seriously, Horsecrazy3, you have no reason to be offended because a random stranger on the Internet posted an (offhand and ill-considered/ignorant) comment. For the record, I did familiarize myself with the competition rules about 15 years ago because I was judging a very large schooling show here locally, and one of the riders did a para test. She was blind and had people at the letters giving her audible reference points. It was really fun, wonderful to watch (and judge) and she was a most excellent rider. It’s not the first time I’ve posted something dumb without all the facts. Shrug. This is how we learn. Thank you for speaking up.
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My horse is a 6.5 mover on a good day and that’s only because his canter is a 7, because his trot is a 6. We have no medium or extended trot. It’s just not there. And it’s not just me - my trainer doesn’t get much out of him either. Probably if I’m getting a 5 she could get a 5.5 or a 6, but it’s not like I’m getting a 4 and she could get a 7.
I’d love to be able to post my mediums and extended at 3rd and 4th (the levels we are currently showing at and scoring in the 60s) because, yeah, it might help us get an extra 0.5 in the score but really because it’d just be more comfortable for him and for me. I can sit the trot just fine for collected word (and really I can barely do trot lateral work posting, I don’t even like to post leg-yields because it’s so much easier to influence with my seat when sitting) so it’s not that I can’t sit the trot. But if we’re already getting a not great score on a movement that just isn’t our strong suit being a little more comfortable would be nice.
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The reason I believe that they do is because the test asks for sitting med and ext trot. It’s the same as asking for sitting collected trot instead of posting working trot, collected canter instead of working canter, a walk pirouette instead of a turn on the haunches, half pass instead of leg yield etc.
At some point, most of us are going to run up against something we struggle with or just can’t do. The same goes for our horses.
Note that the collectives for the horse also don’t change for levels 1 through 4, however, the expectations do as one goes up the levels. For example, in the L program we discussed how much collection was needed at each levels and the instructor had a great answer; “enough so that the movements are easy.”
BTW @Mondo aren’t hip replacements the best thing since sliced bread!!
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Indeed! You get to skip the line at the airport and go through the full body scanner, lol.
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