Where did you read?
It was the first story that came up on the home page when I logged in this morning.
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I’ve gone back and forth on this for a bit and watched this thread unfold.
I think that my final stance is that of all the things to care about in this sport, whether or not someone can choose to post or sit the trot is very, very, low on my list of concerns. I’m totally fine with there being a choice.
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On a somewhat related note, I saw a post awhile back where Jessica von Bredow-Werndl posted the passage, and I incorporated that into my training. It wasn’t easy at first!
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trainer schooling my almost-GP horse will sometimes post the passage to help keep the correct/desired rhythm.
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The first time I saw this was at an elite riders clinic with, (iirc), Ellen Bontje. She was working with a team rider on passage and had her start posting. The rider looked at her like she had 4 heads but went ahead. The smiles on everyone’s faces when the horse shifted to an altogether new and fancier gear were simply radiant. Bontje (again, iirc, it was a LONG time ago) called it a “stupid exercise” that was very useful for some horses 
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On its own, I agree it is totally harmless.
But comments in the article pointed at a larger discussion about deliberately shaping the sport more broadly. I have questions about whether they are harmless long term. Maybe they are, but the point is there is more to discuss re: her vision than just posting at extended gaits.
- She advocates explicitly for becoming more like HJ showing. What are the pros/cons of this? My first reaction is ugh it will become much more expensive…and also, isn’t this explicitly what was NOT wanted for many decades? I am sure there are pros and cons. What do we want the sport to look like in 20 years?
- Pluvinel points out that sitting trot was not done in extensions early in the sport’s history. Why was it introduced? What was it supposed to test? Are we actually testing that/scoring in a way that reflects that intention? If not, shouldn’t we reflect on why not? Pros/cons?
- Re this quote in the article: “The scores are mostly for the horse anyway, and it’s the riders that inhibit the score by sitting and hanging on the face, and then the horse doesn’t go forward enough”. Reads to me like papering over the problem of people riding above their level? Her assertion seems to be it will happen anyway so why not accommodate it? If what is wanted is a better situation for the horse, maybe we are at the point where the national tests should be changed to reflect the model where the horse is expected to be trained to a higher level than the rider? Maybe the right thing to do for the horse is to place a much higher emphasis on harmony and softness of the aids instead of “effectiveness”, which points mostly at showing the horse’s gaits to the max? That seems more beneficial long term to me…
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Alive and kicking still. A. Because it’s fun, interesting, accessible, entertaining, and B. because the rabid Animal Rights faction hasn’t run us off our horses completely.
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Still extant, for one. Which at the pace it’s going in some places, I’m not sure it will be in many regions if we don’t make some changes. As said in the blog, the high performance people won’t go away–but the less-affluent amateurs and shows that make up the bread and butter of the sport very well may.
I didn’t read her note about the hunters as “I want dressage to be run like hunters.” I read it as “why are their shows, wildly expensive as they are, filling and dressage shows are not? Because they have made a point of being more accessible to more levels of riders.” You can argue whether that’s a good thing or not till the sun implodes, but it’s a valid point.
I don’t want dressage shows to be run like H/J shows, and I don’t think allowing posting in the med/ext or even in all trot work through the national levels will make them that way. Now if we start making different divisions and classes for each option (open posting, open sitting, posting amateur, sitting amateur, posting ammy over 65, etc etc etc) THAT would be much more likely to create additional headache and thus additional costs. But I don’t think that’s what Lamping or the folks supporting the idea are aiming for.
Personally I support the idea of allowing posting at national levels. I think greater accessibility to the sport can only benefit its long term viability.
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- I didn’t understand what that meant. Did she mean attracting more amateurs? How would it “look more like HJ?” In 20 years, do you want the sport to be populated only by professionals, Olympic hopefuls, and the uber-rich? Because if the AAs continue to drift away, that could happen.
- That is an interesting topic to research. Why was sitting trot added?
- Here’s where I think you and I differ from the majority on this thread: riders riding above their level of competence. I think they should be able to ride at whatever level they feel competent. If they obviously aren’t, their test sheet will reflect it. After reading the opinion piece, I thought about it from my personal perspective. Would I care if I was in an open class, and someone else in the class was posting at the extended trot but I wasn’t? No. All things being equal, I can’t imagine it would affect me at all - even if that person got higher marks on their extensions than I did. I don’t think posting gives anyone a special advantage.
I think in all sporting endeavors, there is always a desire for parity. The attempt to “level the playing field” is noble if sometimes misguided. In this particular case, I think it’s a relatively harmless suggestion. I don’t see it attracting a whole bunch of new amateurs, but it might soften the image of showing a little. And as evidenced by some of the comments in this thread, there are plenty of people out there willing to show at higher levels who would benefit from being allowed to post. I have just rethought my initial knee-jerk reaction. YMMV
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I read the new article and like how it makes the intent even more clear than the original Facebook post did. That said, it hasn’t changed my mind that sitting any trot is a higher level of difficulty. The article is very clear that it’s really about making dressage more “accessible” to more people at higher levels. Lamping, and according to her other judges, just don’t want to see horses’ backs getting pounded because people are going to ride at higher levels whether or not they can sit the trot.
ETA: I did find the comment about the score being mainly for the horse anyway to be very interesting that it was said “out loud.”
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You must never have ridden a horse that is so smooth it’s more effort to post than sit, and/or never had a horse fully through that sitting is no more effort than posting.
I used to have to teach beginner longe lessons and couldn’t figure out why it was so hard to teach posting on one of the schoolies. Then I was invited to sit on her. “Um, ok. WHY are we trying to teach posting trot to beginners on this particular couch?” 
Sitting ‘any trot’ is not necessarily a higher level of difficulty.
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You make a poor assumption. However, given decades of AQHA all around experience before switching to dressage I’ll agree that it’s harder to post on a horse that is jogging with little to no impulsion or air time than it is to just sit there. Try posting the walk if you want a real workout.
A couple of thoughts. I suspect the “couch” to which you refer was likely jogging and not trotting in a dressage sense.
Also, by “any trot” I meant any dressage trot such as collected, medium or extended so happy to make that clarification.
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It has always been “about the horse”… so, I don’t understand your comment.
The rider scores come into play in the Collective Marks for (a) “Rider Position and Seat” and (b) “Effective Use of the Aids” (in the National tests).
In the FEI tests there is 1 Collective Mark called “General Impression” which encompasses the 5 collectives in the National tests mushed in into one mark for “presentation of the rider/horse combination; rider’s position and seat, discreet and effective influence of the aids.”
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I do not think that it’s a good thing that rated HJ shows now have separate divisions for juniors, amateurs and open every 3” or .05m from 2’ on up. I would not want to see a bunch of sub-divisions in dressage. Or a rated/unrated mix of classes. Unless they’d want to start adding prize money for rated divisions—that would make dressage more fun! 
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I was referring to the often heard, at least in some circles, statement that a correctly ridden “average” horse can score well. YMMV I guess that’s still ultimately about the horse even though good things and bad things may be due to good or bad riding.
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Agreed on that front! As stated originally, I think emulating H/J by making ten billion divisions separated by the finest of threads would only add to expense and headache. I was just saying that I don’t think that’s what Lamping was aiming for with her comment, and I don’t think making the higher levels of national dressage more accessible to some by allowing posting at the trot would add any undue expense or difficulty. Unless they do it by making posting/sitting divisions, as some folks mentioned, which I think would be wholly unnecessary.
I covet the relatively clean and straightforward dressage show class lists and have no desire to break them out even further!
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Well…IMHO (opinion) the judges tend to reward for “bling gaits”… the judges just call it “brilliance.”
In all the Directives for each test movement there is usually something that says “quality of the trot” or "quality of the canter or “quality of the gait.” So in each and every score, bling is rewarded. A well ridden, accurate test will not lose marks, but a “non-bling gait horse” will have a steeper hill to climb.
So, yes, it is about the horse. Just that some horses are more equal than others… (with apologies to Orwell).
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Um, no. She was doing a proper dressage trot at a proper dressage barn. The horses there were not Joe Schoolie, they were trained and usually shown before they got their real jobs.
Recently I helped a friend rehab a horse with a similar trot. She is a gorgeous floating mover who covers a ton of ground in her working trot. It was murder posting her trot because there was nothing to post. Far easier to just sit there. Unfortunately, there are not enough of those horses for people who really need them because of their various (human) physical limitations. I’ve known only 3 or 4 in my 40 years of dressage work. Lots that were close and many who came close after learning to use themselves properly, but not all horses can get there or even should get there.
Your definition of “any” trot being collected, medium, extended holds true for those that have or can develop that ability to float the rider. It does not hold true for many horses and it does no favour to the sport to stomp your foot and say “but I can do it so everybody should have to do it.”
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