Aluminum wedges on front to increase foreleg extension???

[AppyMom]

I have a 4 year old ApHC gelding that is a super, super fancy HUS horse. I’m taking him to Nationals at the end of June. I’ve always had him barefoot since he’s growing and I wanted to allow his feet to finish growing before putting shoes on him. He has GREAT feet, they are huge and strong. Now he’s in heavier work and it’s time to shoe him before nationals.

I was at a show last weekend where I met the trainer that I’ll be working with for the next month up through nationals (my trainer is not going to attend so she referred me to this one). Her and her husband both suggested that I should “stand him up” and put some small aluminum wedges on his fronts. I’ve never heard of wedging a horse that doesn’t have any lameness issues. I do have a horse in wedges, but he has under run heels and navicular type lameness. This horse has an incredible trot as is, but the trainer suggested that his movement could be improved 50% if we put wedges on him. I mentioned it to my vet and my farrier and neither one agreed. My original plan was just to put some regular aluminum shoes on his fronts and then let him go barefoot again at the end of the season.

What is the rationale for wedging a horse without prior lameness or hoof conformation issues? Will it improve his movement, and will it predispose him to ligament/tendon injuries? His heels might be slightly low, but he’s barefoot so he may have just worn them down some.

[ToTheNines]

OK you asked. I would never ever shoe a horse for movement or in any manner other than what his foot/conformation calls for for soundness.

I already think we have too many hunters going with long toes to make them look better at the trot, which invites quarter cracks.

[AppyMom]

I agree with you on that. I never have shod to try and change movement in any manner and I’ve never worked with someone who has asked me to. On the ApHC circuit you see a lot of very upright looking feet. Short toes and up on the heels. Maybe better than long toes and under run heels, but still not natural looking. I am going to put shoes on him because he is wearing down his feet and is developing tiny cracks… so I think he can benefit from wearing shoes, but I was a little confused when they suggested wedges for a horse who shouldn’t need wedges…

[Huntin_Pony]

That would be enough reason for me NOT to be comfortable with that trainer. Have you talked to your regular trainer about this?

This may be one of those moments where you have to decide between your commitment to your horse’s welfare and your desire to compete. I am not saying that you or fellow competitors can’t do both, but it sounds like this trainer is willing to take extreme measures for ribbons. Not for me.

[findeight]

Your horse depends on your judgement to stay healthy and happy, you are his steward while you own him. He has no voice.

I think you already know the answer to your question, which boils down to what’s in the horse’s best interest.

Just so you know, I thought I’d seen or heard of everything in Open and breed shows but this is a new one. In the really big, important Rated Open shows, like WEF, Indoors and the National now that it’s back, top horses have their shoes PULLED before the Hack…because they move just a little bit better barefoot and in that level competition? A little bit matters. They stay shod because of the rigors of on the road footing between stall and ring and stalls on concrete or asphalt.

Changing the natural angle of the foot will influence the mechanics of the gait, it may look just a little bit “better” but it’s sure not going to be good for all the ligaments and tendons set up to work with the original angles, is it? But I guess a minuscule “improvement” that might get a ribbon is worth risking pain and damage to the horse from changing the angles for cosmetic reasons.

Dont let them tell you " It’s OK, everybody does it" because it’s not OK and everybody does not do it, don’t know that anybody does it at all outside the ApHC.

[arlosmine]

Yuck. No. Don’t do it, it’s not about helping the horse. It’s about chasing points.

[JustTheTicket]

I’ve heard of putting regular aluminum shoes on to make them move better, but not wedges. Must be some new fad in the breed land. If you don’t want to do wedges, don’t. It sounds like you plan on staying with your current trainer, right? So tell the trainer you’re meeting at the show that you heard her suggestion but decided to go another way. And if she continues to push it, you can always find another trainer to help you.

[AppyMom]

Thanks for the input everyone My gut was correct, I just wanted to see if there was something I was missing here. I trust my vet more than I trust just about anybody, she is amazing. And she said “probably not a good idea, but check with the farrier”. I do like this trainer, she’s well known, successful and has a great reputation. I just disagree with this one piece of advice she gave me. I’m totally comfortable with telling her thanks, but no thanks and just put some regular aluminums on him. He has big pie plate feet that look like they belong on a warmblood and they may not be “halter pretty” but they will keep him sound. I do not want to screw with that, because I’ve had enough Appies with “pretty feet” to know that pretty isn’t always good.

Oh and I have heard of the practice of removing shoes in the hunter pen right before entering the HUS classes. I disagree with that too. People will do some crazy things to try and get a little bit of an edge on the competition…

[Equibrit]

Farriers are experts on shoeing horses - not “trainers”.

[CHT]

My mare came to me “shod for more action”, which apparently meant long toes and wedge pads. It too 6 months to get her angles and hoof health to the point where I could work her a normal amount, and I am sure her lower limb health has been compromised. I am not sure how trainer’s even find farriers willing to do that stuff…I know mine would fire me if I shod for action rather that health/soundness.

[BeeHoney]

It’s very unwise to tamper with a sound, normal horse’s hoof angles if you have any interest in their long term soundness. Your instincts were right.

[TSWJB]

It sounds like this kind of shoeing would be the start of soundness problems. I would leave your horse barefoot! They move better without shoes unless they are sore. People just don’t want to believe horses can go barefoot and they are actually healthier and sounder barefoot!

[mvp]

[QUOTE=AppyMom;8164566]

Oh and I have heard of the practice of removing shoes in the hunter pen right before entering the HUS classes. I disagree with that too. People will do some crazy things to try and get a little bit of an edge on the competition…[/QUOTE]

Yes, but it would serve you well to understand why people do this.

The idea is to make the foot lighter so that any deviations in the leg are not exacerbated by the weight of a shoe hung off the end of it. I’m not sure a horse will really flip his toe that much more if he’s suddenly unshod. In addition-- and probably related to the half-backed biomechanics behind your trainers’ advice-- is the goal of easing and speeding up break-over. In other words, the horse finds it easier to roll his toe off the ground after the weight-bearing part of the stride on that limb is over.

Putting wedges on a horse similarly (kind of) “eases break-over” because the coffin bone is, essentially, already tipped forward, even when the horse is standing on that leg. Why you’d let someone do that to your sound 4-year-old, I can’t imagine.

In addition, if your horse has under run heels, adding more wedge back there won’t help. It will, however, decrease circulation back there so that the horse will grow less heel over time.

My point is that all HOs should learn something about how farriers trim and shoe horses so that they can tell good from bad advice. After all, after the trainer’s shoeing plan has failed and hurt the horse, he becomes your problem. And pro will move on to one that’s still sound.

[x]

Ummm…wedges don’t improve movement from a hunter standpoint; if they do anything they’ll add more knee action. You get longer action with the lower heel/longer toe which is why racehorses tend to be shod/trimmed that way. Unless the horse had low heels and needed the wedges, I wouldn’t do it. I have a horse here that I like how he moves barefoot–lower and longer action in front, but doesn’t have it when shod, because he has very low heels and needs to wear a wedge, and with the wedge he isn’t as long and low.

[heronponie]

Howzabout we just trim/shoe horses to support the column of bone, tendons, ligaments, and muscles that are supposed to be supported by that foot structure? Instead of treating it like some sort of cosmetic accessory that we can dress up or dress down to suit the fashions of certain disciplines?

[beau159]

[QUOTE=AppyMom;8164306]
Her and her husband both suggested that I should “stand him up” and put some small aluminum wedges on his fronts. I’ve never heard of wedging a horse that doesn’t have any lameness issues.

… the trainer suggested that his movement could be improved 50% if we put wedges on him.

What is the rationale for wedging a horse without prior lameness or hoof conformation issues? Will it improve his movement, and will it predispose him to ligament/tendon injuries? His heels might be slightly low, but he’s barefoot so he may have just worn them down some.[/QUOTE]

I guess everyone has different goals. Some people will “alter” their horse in order to achieve a certain result; even if it risks the horse’s health.

I myself will not.

Ultimately, it is up to you to choose what to do, but I would run far away from this trainer (and tell my current trainer what happened). I want to win a class because my horse is worth it and deserved it; not because they are full of bute or ace, or wedged when they don’t need it. Some people will go to extremes to win.

I would absolutely not wedge a healthy foot. Wedging has it’s place when it is used when necessary, but it does put more stress/strain on other parts of the foot.

[Lord_Helpus]

I don’t think that any shoeing chage for a month is going to hurt the horse. But putting wedge shoes on is counterintuitive.

Look at the 2 extremes – Racehorses for whom a long sweeping stride is desirable have long toes and no heel. Gaited horses and big lick TW’ers are stood up on huge blocks so that their feet are more vertical than horizontal. This is done to create the extreme action desirable in those breeds.

Within those two extremes are all the other breeds/disciplines.

Hunter trainers who want to win hack classes pull the shoes just for the under saddle and then tack them back on as soon as the class is over. As soon as you increase the angle of the horse’s hoof, he will have more knee action.

Light weight aluminum shoes will not create more action once your horse gets used to them, but adding wedges? Seems ass backwards to me.

If he is winning as he is now, why add shoes at all?

By any chance does this trainer already have customers who you will be competing against?.. Just asking…

[tbchick84]

[QUOTE=ToTheNines;8164318]

I already think we have too many hunters going with long toes to make them look better at the trot, which invites quarter cracks.[/QUOTE]

Wow, how backasswards is that? Long toes to make a trot better? Ignorance is really a dangerous thing in the wrong hands.

[RugBug]

@Lord Helpus;8165741

Hunter trainers who want to win hack classes pull the shoes just for the under saddle and then tack them back on as soon as the class is over. As soon as you increase the angle of the horse’s hoof, he will have more knee action.

This. Barefoot is usually best for movement. If yours has great feet and will won’t wear them down showing, etc…leave him barefoot.

Light weight aluminum shoes will not create more action once your horse gets used to them, but adding wedges? Seems ass backwards to me.

If he is winning as he is now, why add shoes at all?

and then this. If you NEED shoes, go aluminum. If not, go barefoot.

BTW - I suppose a wedge might help break over on a long toed horse, but the ideal is a short break over for a long sweeping stride. This usually means proper hoof alignment and shorter, rolled toes. this can comes from trimming and can be an art unto itself. Unless you really know your farrier is good, don’t mess with the feet. You can create more problems than it’s worth.

[hoopoe]

if you are going to be working with these trainers for the next month or two, make sure you farrier is on board, not the trainers

Even if you have to haul home or to another facility for the farrier to meet you.