Am I being over-paranoid taking my horse to New Bolton for lameness exam?

[nativehiro]

Hopefully short background. I have posted here before and maybe I haven’t crossed anything off the list and my resources are limited.

I have a 5 year old OTTB I got when he was 3. Had a excellent PPE and vet didn’t feel the need for xrays. I only opted for the back since Kissing Spines was my main concern. All clear (I think).

Anywho I brought him home. Pulled hind shoes and he got really sore so I threw them back on for a bit. As I got to riding more he developed this unwillingness to go forward-would skip in the trot. Does not being touch like literally can’t do body work on him without throwing a fit. Girthy. So I suspected something was wrong had saught out help.

Vet #1 from the track who came recommended for lameness instantly suspected EPM, did a round of meds with no improvement. Then she came back out and said well maybe its his stifles lets just inject them to see if that helps…it did not.

Vet #2 said he really isn’t terribly lame and to try lunging him over some ground poles. Horse will not move under on the lunge he acts super choppy (see video).

#Vet 3 suspects ulcers we scope treat and scope again all clear. X-ray feet. Has NPA in the hinds. Said to try wedges but as hes only 3 I really didn’t want to fudge up any postural changes so I opted to pull shoes again and keep him on a shorter cycle where toes can come back and heels brought underneath himself. This seem to help as he turned 4 over the summer he was more willing to work/ride out and we took him to some local shows where he did great.

Now after this winter with light work and some stall time from the weather he’s back to where I started. His feet are not the best but I have spoke the 4 farriers now that would “not change the way hes being trimmed” and the one’s who I think would spend the time to rehabbing him in glue-ons or any sort of support arent taking new clients. I am thinking of ordering him boots to see if that aid any soreness he may be having from the feet.

Vet was out for spring shots and wants to Xray his stifles and see if anything is going on. I am not sure but I am suspecting SI with his posture right now.

I just don’t know if I want to keep trying these local vets guessing games on to why he leaps into the trot and then skips around or if I am just being over paranoid of a weakness he just might have from compensating?

Hop he does during rides

Nike Feb

Yesterday on lung line (he doesn’t know how to lunge well so I take anything here with a grain of salt)

Nike 4/18/24

Freely in the round pen today
https://youtube.com/shorts/u6gxggzUlhg?feature=share

Feet

[beowulf]

Are you paranoid? Probably not. He is not sound. Is it worth a big dollar work up…? Depends on your budget.

I always watch videos first, before reading - because I want to see what my eye can pick up free from any bias.

He is foot sore on all four feet.

Generally you can tell foot-soreness from something like a soft tissue injury, because of the motion of the hoof right before it contacts the ground. They tend to move in “economy mode”, stubbing with a toe-first landing, shorter stride, and almost looks like they are trying to move on the tip of their feet, envision walking on stilts or the tips of their toes. They will also have a reduced range of motion up high, tighter shoulders, back, and very little openness in the hock. They will not want to move out or open, will be pissy or pull their head up when asked to step up and forward, and tend to need a lot of encouragement to go forward.

Your photos show good correction for what must have been a chronically unbalanced trim. Your farrier is on the right track trying to encourage the heel to grow down versus forward, that is the notching on the hoof wall. More could be taken off the toe, but probably not in that cycle. The fever rings and uneven coronary band and growth line show some moderate inflammation in the laminae. The bull nose profile, indicative of NPA, which it sounds like you confirmed, will go away as the toe corrects. NPA can cause a whole subset of bodily complaints from sore SI to suspensories, so it is good you are on top of correcting it.

Your horse looks like he has a different horse’s hoof on each foot. The LF is not in balance with the RF, etc.

Leaping into the trot like that, tends to be from pain when pushing from behind.

In your shoes, I’d put shoes on him. No pun intended. Sometimes they are needed – especially in chronically incorrectly trimmed horses – to keep their bodies comfortable while their feet are corrected.

[fivestrideline]

Following with commiseration. I think @beowulf is on to something with the feet.

I feel your pain in a way because I have run the gamut of farriers here and with my current options I would NOT shoe my horses. I have them trimmed and then roll the “shoe trim” around the edges.

I had good luck with Cavallo boots for a while but now I think I have a problem where my horse is worried about interfering/stepping on the boot, so he moves weirder in them than out. TBD on what I’m going to do about that.

Sorry to be no help, I’m just in the same boat!

[nativehiro]

Thank you! He was in shoes for a while and that did not stop the attitude tacking/brushing. I know hes body sore so maybe he needs more than just plain steel shoes. That’s why I am wondering if something like boots with pad support would be a better option while rehabing.

Again the farriers in my area…I am limited so I try to take what I can get. The couple I have used are conservitive on the toe, so I might pick up a rasp inbetween visits.

This was the quality of shoe work I was getting so that’s why I opted for barefoot this year in hopes
to rehab with boots.

camera-Roll-Temp-Image hosted at ImgBB

[fivestrideline]

Holeeyyyy crap those feet!! 🫣

[barnesthenoble]

Those feet are a problem. I would not spend $$$$ on a workup until you have a handle on them.

I would bet good money the NPA behind is back in full force. Looks like the LH is maybe, ever so slightly, better than the RH but neither are good. Fronts are pretty classic hi-lo. RF is probably the most okay-looking of these feet, but without more pics hard to say if it’s in good shape or just less bad. LF toe is long, heels are long, just long.

Slapping him in steel shoes won’t fix the issue of NPA. Especially since you said he did the same thing with shoes on all four.

I feel your pain with the farriers available to you. I do think ideally you’d have an experienced hoofcare practitioner help you with some rehab through glue ons and boots. If you’re able to pick up a rasp yourself, even slight trims to the toe once a week will help.

At minimum I think padded boots, while a pain, could help a lot. I’d suggest doing them for all four feet if you’re able to. Ideally he’d be in them as close to 23/7 as possible. It’s time consuming but can really help.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if there’s also an SI/stifle component to the hopping, but until you’ve addressed the feet, all the injections in the world will only go so far.

What is he eating? It looks like you made some dietary changes ~6-8 months ago?

[nativehiro]

I added omenity from mad barn to his diet to see if that helped with healthy growth. Edit to add - big boarding facility my options are purina and purina. He gets a scoop of their 14% all stage feed and the omenity along with purina outlast.

[nighthorse6]

I can’t say enough good things about hoof boots after struggling with my OTTB being foot sore. He looked a lot like your guy on the lunge line. I have him in Cavallo boots with pads for turnout and Renegades for riding. It took a few weeks for him to not be so sore, but he’s like a different horse now. Eventually we will get shoes on him.

[Larbear]

After watching the videos and seeing the pics I would start first with the feet. If you can’t find a decent farrier, might want to think about maybe learning how to trim?

[Bluey]

The advantage to using New Bolton now is that they may have specific ways to handle the feet issues, maybe their own farrier that could help your local ones.

Waiting is leaving horse to gimp around for long, before deciding to still need New Bolton for more.
They may even agree with everyone that attending to feet first is best and should know how best to do that.

[nativehiro]

I have thought about it enough that I actually bought a rasp and some other tools. But I’ve just been nervous since my current Farrier said there’s not much to takeoff. I’m on a very informative Facebook group that is helpful though and someone was nice enough to map out where I should be with the NPA. Just nervous to try.
Current farrier is willing to work with new X-rays and see what else can be done but I feel like it’s obvious from the outside view already.

IMG-4997 hosted at ImgBB

[nativehiro]

That’s what I’m saying it’s been two years almost of vets not evening thinking feet even with the X-rays and the farriers doing minimal trims.

[beowulf]

Oh. Wow. How long were you using that farrier, do you have multiple session pictures?

You cant always fix chronic issues in one or even two sessions so I can understand there not being drastic improvement right away, but if this was the result of more than a handful of sessions, I wouldn’t be happy and you are right, I would not go back to that either. In your situation it might be best to buy some hoof boots and start the long but rewarding journey that is learning how to trim yourself.

The only problem with foot sore horses is they are not just foot sore in work. They are foot sore 24/7, in the paddock, in the stall, in the ring - and it can be really hard on their bodies to live with that, something that hoof boots do not address unless on 24/7.

[fivestrideline]

Not to tangent - up thread, I posted that my horse is being weird about the boots… tried him barefoot today and he definitely was more careful and stubby. Put boots on all four (instead of just fronts) and had DRASTIC improvement. He’s still got a stifle question mark on turns occasionally, but the boots fixed MOST of it.

Just more info for ya!

[nativehiro]

Oh I have lots of photos just not the best for viewing conformation of the hoof.

This is farrier #1 work I used for about a year. As soon as I told him to shorten his toes to fix the NPA he did and I was a bit happy with how his hinds were looking (still terribly applied trim) but he was NEGLECTING that low LF.
Only image I when I got him but you can see the condition the feet came in with the severe hi/low
August 22

November 22
xrays confirmed NPA here so I pulled them and asked for shorter cycles

The new growth I “thought” was coming in better and hoping on track to fix NPA, but no heel support.

Neglected front - even though backs were showing improvement this was nuts to me and when I sought out a different farrier. He was moving sound (no hopping) and this is when I was taking him to shows.

So I was paraniod with the front shoe job and sough out new farrier who thought he could use support and put the wedge on both fronts… the hi front didn’t need support so that confused me and he didn’t put and DIM under the pad which boggled my mind.

So again frustrated I said let’s just try barefoot (this was in November 2023) and he was going sore for a week or two but rideable after.

Early March is when he started acting up again with the muscle soreness and the unwillingness to go forward.

For fun I did take (awful) photos of TWO different farriers work in my barn. Both HIGHLY reccomended so I am very firm on that no one probably is going to help me unless I push a vets opinion down their throat.

[nativehiro]

Could take a while to strengthen that stifle. Nike even with these feet does better with more work and staying active. I let him sit and thats when this started back up again. Going to search for good boots he can wear 24/7.

[fivestrideline]

Yeah, that’s why I posted here! He has a lot going on, but the boots made such a huge difference as soon as I put them on all four. This horse is coming back from some insanely long feet that he showed up with as well!

I think boots are a good avenue to pursue. That, or New Bolton and their farrier. Though I know I personally wouldn’t be able to maintain a routine with such a farrier, and that makes the farrier bill there kinda useless ultimately. Just my two cents

[beowulf]

Holy s###! I don’t use this word often, but what a series of absolutely horrible trims. Your poor guy is probably dealing with all around soreness given how long this has gone on. Good on you for recognizing things are not going well and trying to do what’s best for your boy.

If these are your options, yeah, stay barefoot. Those angles are awful.

[Larbear]

@beowulf

If these are your options, yeah, stay barefoot. Those angles are awful.

And give a thought to learn to trim…yikes those feet!

[nativehiro]

Thanks and I know but I think I found help!! This lady name Daisy who is on my hoof rehab fb groups would give me advice through the computer. I didn’t realize she’s only an hour away. She works on severe cases so I think she’ll be able to get us on the right path. I have to trailer him but she also has a teaching school that I could possibly get some hands on experience if I work with her.