Am I just sensitive?

[Arzny]

Today I went around the corner to a local farm to buy something off marketplace and look at some alfalfa he was selling.

The place is quite clean from the front, and looks like a small, cute farmette from the road. When I rounded the corner around the house however, there were two dead calves in front of the barn. I was definitely a little shocked - but tried to give the benefit of the doubt. I certainly would have covered them, especially knowing someone was swinging by, but I know sometimes shit just hits the fan.

The farmer invited me into a barn where he has his hay in the loft. The floor space of this barn was filled with calves in their little pens. The pens were clean and the calves had bright eyes, but almost every calf was coughing. There was also a small pen of steers, and there was a freshly dead steer at the front of the pen. The farmer made a comment that pneumonia is running through their barn. Frankly, I was horrified into being polite and pretending to look at the hay before making some excuse as to why my horses wouldn’t eat it and got the hell out of there.

I want to report them to animal control, but DH is worried about making an enemy of the neighbors - especially since you cannot see the situation from the road. Am I being too sensitive? Would you report this as well?

[OverandOnward]

@Arzny

Today I went around the corner to a local farm to buy something off marketplace and look at some alfalfa he was selling.

The place is quite clean from the front, and looks like a small, cute farmette from the road. When I rounded the corner around the house however, there were two dead calves in front of the barn. I was definitely a little shocked - but tried to give the benefit of the doubt. I certainly would have covered them, especially knowing someone was swinging by, but I know sometimes shit just hits the fan.

The farmer invited me into a barn where he has his hay in the loft. The floor space of this barn was filled with calves in their little pens. The pens were clean and the calves had bright eyes, but almost every calf was coughing. There was also a small pen of steers, and there was a freshly dead steer at the front of the pen. The farmer made a comment that pneumonia is running through their barn. Frankly, I was horrified into being polite and pretending to look at the hay before making some excuse as to why my horses wouldn’t eat it and got the hell out of there.

I want to report them to animal control, but DH is worried about making an enemy of the neighbors - especially since you cannot see the situation from the road. Am I being too sensitive? Would you report this as well?

I’m not sure what you would report? Dead animals happen on a farm.

Maybe I need to be educated, but I can’t think of what wrong or harm you think is going on.

If someone had just had a housepet dog or cat die and it was there when you happened by, would you report them? For what?

He didn’t know you were coming?

It’s not overly sensitive to be upset by the dead animals – I can understand the reaction. Just from what you wrote, I’m just not sure what wrong you think is going on there. You haven’t mentioned abuse, starvation, other neglect.

[Arzny]

Dead animals happen for sure, but 3 at the same time? Uncovered?

Like I said, maybe I’m just being sensitive. I know nothing about cattle or how hard it is to treat pneumonia in them.

He had about 6 hours warning that I was coming.

[OverandOnward]

He obviously isn’t terribly sensitive himself to what a visitor’s reaction might be.

I’m still wondering what report you would make? He had some animals die of disease that he is treating in the others?

Again, can you share specifically what harm you think is going on?

I understand feeling badly at the sight of the dead animals. I don’t understand why you think the farmer is a bad person who needs to be reported.

[Arzny]

Google says the mortality rate for calves is roughly 1%. 3 dead calves/steers whatever you call them is roughly 10% mortality based on the numbers I saw - presumably with other calves to follow based on how they are coughing.

But as I said before, I have no idea how calf raising works and obviously math can’t explain the real world. I don’t know if pneumonia is recoverable for a calf. My fear is that there was no obvious treatment occurring for the sick calves. The dead steer was in a pen where he could touch noses with fresh calves while he was still alive.

I posted here to get a realty check on if I was just shocked or if it sounded wrong to others. I don’t think the farmer is a bad person at all.

[fivestrideline]

I would also be asking the same questions if I saw that, so you’re not alone. I don’t have an answer for you but I certainly would not be comfortable doing business with that person.

[Bluey]

First, questions, where those dairy calves or beef ones?

Depending on the region and the farmer, some raising beef cattle have cows and calves, then when weaning sell the calves to “stockers”, that buy weaning calves and raise them for a season, several months, to feeder weights and are sold to feedlots.

If that is what that farmer had, this time of the year is when many get stockers for the summer season, those weaners are like kids in daycare and kindergarten, exposed to all kinds of commingled bugs and pneumonia is the result of some of those.
Many keep weaners in pens or small traps until completely weaned, then are turned out to pastures for the summer.

When those weaners come in, they receive all kinds of vaccines to prevent as many of those illnesses as possible, but not all calves immune system is strong, stressed from weaning and pacing and bawling and not eating well in new places and new food.
Some calves get very sick and die, even with the best care.

Most good farmers do take the dead ones behind a windbreak out of sight and a “dead wagon”, the renderer truck is called to come get them, the same that will come if you have a dead horse to dispose of.

Most times calves do fine, but when some get sick and some die, even with the best care, every death is a loss that gets the farmer very depressed and grumpy and stressed and having nightmares of sick cattle.
There are some farmers that are not that good about picking sick cattle out and treating them, others are aces at it and rarely have a higher death loss, and some that are so good at starting weaner calves that is all they do, selling for a premium to those that graze for the season.
The ones that have trouble with the losses buy the preconditioned calves, is hard to take the best care you can and then some still die. “Straightened” calves are easier for many.
Maybe that farmer is preconditioning weaners for himself or to sell to summer grazers.

It would be surprising to just have dead calves lying around, unless he had just taken them out of pens and was then coming with the loader to haul them to his dead stock spot, for the truck to pick them up?

Or maybe he was a terrible farmer and didn’t follow basic common sense industry protocols.

Now, dairy cattle, depends on age and purpose, don’t know how they may handle their cattle.

[endlessclimb]

I think you’re just being sensitive. If there’s a disease running through a fresh lot of calves, what do you want him to do? He’s not going to make a gravesite for each one, and it sounds like the situation was very active. If the pens were clean, it sounds like he tries to care well for them.

[paintedpony]

Viral outbreaks such as IBR lead to secondary bacterial pneumonias. Even with exemplary management, in young calves there can be a shocking death loss.

You did not mention a cow herd, so I suspect this farmer purchases bottle babies (as you mentioned the barn was filled with individual pens) from outside sources such as a sales barn. The farmer has no control over the vaccination status of the cow herd and the immunity the calves carry, only what he can do moving forward.

You indicate that the pens were clean which suggests good or at least average care. Calves, like people who have experienced a viral illness can cough for weeks afterwards. All you can do is wait, and monitor for signs of secondary pneumonia. Then follow the treatment plan prescribed by your Vet. Young stock can go from looking good to being dead in a day.

The dead steer in the pen, is likely the farmer waiting on manpower to move. The logistics of moving a several hundred pound body can present quite the roadblock to speed. Think of needing to move animals, break down pens, get skid steer in, or merely waiting availability of strong backs.

Yes, I think you were sensitive when faced with a view that you were unprepared for. If there was a tarp in place the animal is still dead. I do not think “reporting” is in order. What would you report? If hay is suitable for your use I would purchase.

[trubandloki]

I agree with the majority of the posts. You are being sensitive, which is fine. People can be sensitive to this stuff. But there is nothing here to report.

He certainly was not hiding anything from you.

I know it is hard at the time but maybe next time just ask a question - he tells you pneumonia is going thru his barn, offer apologies and admit you know nothing about raising cattle, what causes that problem in a cattle herd. I bet he would gladly explain it all.

I am sure right now he has a ton of stuff going on and was quite busy dealing with that stuff and the thought of a tarp to not offend the horse person did not enter his mind. He was dealing with the issues at hand.

I hope you are judging his hay on his hay, not because he happens to be having a very bad time with an illness going thru right now.

[Arzny]

They had spots but looked like they were all boys - so presuming they were feeders. Maybe dairy bull calves. Are those used for meat?

Sounds like it’s an unfortunate reality for a cattle farm. Thanks for the info.

[Bluey]

@Arzny

They had spots but looked like they were all boys - so presuming they were feeders. Maybe dairy bull calves. Are those used for meat?

Sounds like it’s an unfortunate reality for a cattle farm. Thanks for the info.

If they were dairy holstein calves, those are way younger than beef calves are, that are weaned much older and bigger and already eating well.
Here dairies sell calves after birth, give them colostrum and maybe a few days of the first milking and then they are taken to calf hutches or sold to growers.
There are truckers specializing on hauling dairy calves, their trucks have to be cleaned and disinfected and new shavings on the floor and the trailer divisions adjusted for baby calves.

The heifers aimed as milk cows some times are raised along the steers for the first months, then separated and the steers fed out.

If that farmer had little dairy calves, boy, those take excellent care or they die on you so easily, not for the faint of heart.

It is heartbreaking, I understand why you were shocked, I expect the farmer is also sick about it, but as Grandma used to say when we lost any critter, if you are going to have them, you are going to lose some, but yes, is very hard to contemplate, sorry you were put in that situation.

[clanter]

Maybe the result of penicillin being removed from over the counter sales, many old time farmers used penicillin haphazardly thus recently the drug and many others now require a prescription. The loss of a few calves may be less cost than vet’s visit?

[Bluey]

@clanter

Maybe the result of penicillin being removed from over the counter sales, many old time farmers used penicillin haphazardly thus recently the drug and many others now require a prescription. The loss of a few calves may be less cost than vet’s visit?

Large animal vets that handle dairies tend to go by every day and train the attendants properly, set protocols for treating, etc.

Beef cattle producers also work under a vet and have their own protocols to follow, logs to keep of any medication, etc.
Those vets are generally under a consulting fee, so much a month and extra for any other direct service, like personally attending to injuries, strange presentations and such.
Most attendants are trained to do most of the direct work, posting (necropsies) and taking cultures to the labs to make autologous vaccines, etc. so vets don’t have to be on hand for every little thing, can tend just by consulting.
We have local horse vets with their own horse hospitals that are specialists in beef cattle consulting.

[clanter]

@Bluey

generally

Yes but I knew many farmers such as OP’s comment that never had any working relationship with a vet as they just did whatever they thought was correct. They kept penicillin around.

I would suspect the chance of a farmer today would be even greater with look it up on the internet for everything to save money

[paintedpony]

From a Woodville Farm:

*1 Black Bull Calf @ 115lbs for $1207.50!

From a Woodville Farm:

*1 Black Bull Calf @150lbs for $1425!

From a Reaboro Farm:

• 1 Holstein Bull Calf @ 110lbs for $880!

Above is a copy and paste of last week’s bottle baby sale report from an Ontario Sales Barn. These babies are sold from a day of age and on. Calf prices are currently high so the farmer OP visited is experiencing a large financial hit. They would be motivated to do their best, and work with their Vet to assure best practice is followed.

I feel for the farmer and again suggest: if hay is suitable buy it. These people need a break!

[Bluey]

@clanter

Yes but I knew many farmers such as OP’s comment that never had any working relationship with a vet as they just did whatever they thought was correct. They kept penicillin around.

I would suspect the chance of a farmer today would be even greater with look it up on the internet for everything to save money

Today most medication products are under vet prescription, especially antibiotics.
Can’t buy them at all, even over the internet, without a vet on board that has a relationship with you as a client and writes your prescriptions.
Is not only illegal to sell, buy or give any such without a prescription but the fines and jail time are serious.
No one but an outright stupid crook would wants to go there, vets by cheating on their bookwork of who is a real client, sellers or farmers getting products without prescription.

As mentioned above, also cattle prices are the highest they have ever been, a real incentive to use a vet so you don’t have several dead ones.

[2DogsFarm]

OP:
What you saw are bottle calves.
“Spots” sounds like a Dairy breed.
Those calves require feeding at least 2X daily, 3 is better.
Even with feeding bottles hung in the pens, that’s a lot of work.
Keeping pens clean is also not easy (or optional).
And with so many, so young, as others have said, some loss is unavoidable.
Farmer told you, without being asked, what was going on.
So, yes, you were too sensitive & whatever killed those calves would not have affected the hay.
I don’t know where you live, but here, at this time of year, you’re lucky to find any kind of hay at all.
If his hay was decently-priced, IIWM, I’d be putting it in my barn ASAP.
1st cutting here will be at the end of May, IF we’re lucky

[Arzny]

Hay was rich dairy alfalfa advertised as a mix. Not suitable for my herd irregardless of the dead cattle, but certainly encouraged me to get out of there quickly.

[moonlitoaksranch]

I don’t think you’re being sensitive. There’s a tragedy happening at that farm. That doesn’t mean that it’s reportable, though.

Cattle prices are astronomically high right now. At the auction yesterday, week old sickly Holstein calves were being sold for $300. Dairies don’t often keep their bull calves. They sell them as bottle calves. Th dairies have found a market for dairy/beef crosses, so they will sell them as newborn calves or up to a week old. Dairy calves have a higher mortality but the crosses are a little hardier. Many people will take their chances buying dairy or dairy cross bottle calves to raise and resell as older calves. Disease is common, especially when the calves are locked up in a building because of cold temperatures. The farmer is likely doing what he can and has suffered a huge financial setback. Each one of those calves could have brought him about $1,200 this summer. No one wants to deal with dead animals.

If the ground is frozen, you have to compost them. He might be piling them up and waiting to do one big hill once he knows how many will survive.