Thanks everyone for the advice and perspective! I called him this morning and apologized for the misunderstanding. We are all good and he put me in the schedule for lime in the fall. It was a big relief for both of us I think. I started with email so I could have a record of sorts (and time to think), but email sucks sometimes.
Cowboymom, you could not be more wrong about me. My dad is a farmer, my brother is a vo ag teacher for the county, I grew up on a hay, cattle and tobacco farm, my uncles are farmers. I am about as far from a “rich princess” as it comes.
My dad doesn’t have a smartphone and is too tired from calving season to respond to email. I don’t even have my brother’s email address. My uncles only recently got cell phones but I don’t have their cell phone numbers, just their land lines. Maybe out west you guys are all high tech but in the mountains we rich princesses aren’t that fancy. So when I tell people that “farmers aren’t businessmen” because they don’t care that much about “customer service” and quick response to emails, that’s just my perspective. I don’t understand why you think that anyone looks down on small farmers. I don’t give two figs about this. This is how my family works and I love them more than anything in the world. They are great and if you need anything at all, they will be there for you. if something is not urgent, it might take a little bit because something else might be more urgent. This is how things work on my own farm. I have been meaning to stain my deck for three years because there’s always something a little more important to do on the farm.
I would probably think this was a lot more amusing if I didn’t have nerve pain down my leg because I threw 200 bales of hay out of the loft two days ago and restacked them all downstairs by myself, aggravating the pinched nerve in my back. I kind of want to be a rich princess and have someone to do all that for me…
By the way, I notice you told people exactly the same thing I did, that it depends on the weather and not the OP’s schedule. So I guess in the long run, despite all your insults we aren’t that different.
Interesting as I helped my barn find a new hay guy when the last hay guy left us with zero bales in the barn after multiple calls. Since we thought this was normal from hay guys we put up with it. He was busy, he was planting crops, he was haying. It all came down to he didnt actually have any hay and would not have any and had been buying hay from someone else to supply the barn.
I called a hay guy randomly and he not only spent some time asking what kind of horses, how many horses, and how many bales a week they ate, but he delivered a load of hay in 24 hours to people he had never met. He even apologized for not being able to get it there sooner! He is easy to get ahold of quick to react, knows about when we need hay, and delivers when he says he will. My barn will use him forever and suggests him to other people. His concern for making his customers happy and his quality of hay are refreshing.
“All farmers are poor businessmen?” Interesting statement. The good ones I know are definitely good businessfolk (and they’re not all of any one gender, even though they are predominantly male).
Not all farmers are good farmers. The marginal ones often have poor business practices (which is why they are marginal farmers).
Farmers are the most optimistic gamblers on the planet. Like all good gamblers they try and put odds in their favor, but they can only estimate what factors like weather might do, they can’t control it. Sometimes they can control the negative effects of weather (like storing hay in a building or engaging in active water runoff management) but often they can’t. Want to meet a true optimist? Talk to the owner of an orchard.
In the OPost it’s clear that there was a double mis-communication. The OP needs to suck that up and contractor needs to lighten up and admit that they should have made some attempt at communication (I mean if the weather was preventing the work from being done then there was probably a few moments where a phone call could have been made and a message left).
Farming is a “doing” profession, not so much a “thinking” profession. Although good farmers think a lot about what they are doing.
A wise boss once told me that “You can talk about things or you can do things. The more you talk about things the less time you have to do them. You reach a state of stability when you spend all your time talking about the things that you’re not doing.”
Smart guy, that boss.
G.
I’m not sure if I’m one of the princesses? I never said a word about farmers, but maybe I shouldn’t complain about the coop or extension office either. I guess if I call the co-op and leave a message I hope for a return call. I called twice. Very nice message. Same with the extension office, which is run in small part off my tax dollars too–asked me to take pictures of the weeds I had questions on and then never responded again.
Or when I asked for a bid on drilling seed. I called three times over the weeks as we got closer to planting the pasture. I HATE nagging! Was promised I would have a written bid before he came. Then he just shows up when I’m at work, drills it, and sends me an invoice that was much higher than I expected.
So my personal experience has been a definite lack of communication.
As far as actual farmers go, I know several who would be a great help if I was looking for a tractor (as in I bet they would help me shop), or have timing questions on spraying, etc. My neighbor will let me ride on his fields in the fall, or use temporary fencing to let my horses eat fallen corn (I declined, but it was a nice offer). My husband’s family has a big crop and livestock operation (not his parents, alas, 
more extended) and we buy our hay from them, etc. They are VERY good businessmen. Still not the best on communicating–it’s more when they get around to it, but what is 250 bales of hay to someone with over a thousand cattle? lol. I don’t expect them to drop everything for me.
I apologize, people are taking the business thing out of context. perhaps I should have said “do not expect them to mimic corporate response time” or something. I was not reflecting on anything but communication. Not the strength of their operation as a going concern or anything.
Anyway, all I meant to say is that I am from a long line of farmers who are wonderful people, make their livings farming, and if you email them you aren’t going to hear back any time soon. Call after dark and before 10 PM if you want to reach them for sure, that’s the secret to getting ahold of a farmer. 9 pm in winter.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8184390]
I apologize, people are taking the business thing out of context. perhaps I should have said “do not expect them to mimic corporate response time” or something. I was not reflecting on anything but communication. Not the strength of their operation as a going concern or anything.
Anyway, all I meant to say is that I am from a long line of farmers who are wonderful people, make their livings farming, and if you email them you aren’t going to hear back any time soon. Call after dark and before 10 PM if you want to reach them for sure, that’s the secret to getting ahold of a farmer. 9 pm in winter.[/QUOTE]
If it’s any comfort, I knew what you meant, fordtraktor.
Has anyone seen the Dilbert comic strip series “Dick from the Internet?” I definitely recognized some COTH behavior patterns. :lol:
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8183798]
The directions say to apply “when foliage is fully expanded and when actively growing.” Straight off the label. That means not to mow. Pasture Pro works great but not if it is misapplied.
Look, business is one thing but farmers are not really businessmen. Good luck applying your business best practices to them. Just saying. Of course in an ideal world they would be responsive and whatnot but…they rarely are. ok with me if they are there for me in a true emergency. IME most farmers will take a week to call you back about a mundane matter but if you have a real problem they will drop everything and help you. It is just how they work.[/QUOTE] they are talking about growth stage not wether it is cut or not. When the professional applicators sprayed they always wanted pasture mowed so spray is closer to roots.
I don’t like putting my horses back on pasture directly after spraying either, even if the sprays are considered safe.
Regarding the timeframe, I think 2 weeks would have been sufficient time to fulfill what he promised, unless there was something very dramatic in the weather. Was it raining non-stop? Something else? That would be the factor I’d be looking at.
EDIT: Just read the update, glad all is well 
[QUOTE=NoSuchPerson;8184456]
If it’s any comfort, I knew what you meant, fordtraktor.
Has anyone seen the Dilbert comic strip series “Dick from the Internet?” I definitely recognized some COTH behavior patterns. :lol:[/QUOTE]
Amen. Googling that next…
My problems have never been our farmer (who was in this “Rich Princess’” wedding party and was my husband’s roomate for years - and is probably his best childhood friend).
My issue is with:
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The people who blew us off for weeks at a time to go do other jobs for bigger cleints.
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The professionals who refused to give a professional opinion as to what to do (???)
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The numerous people who blew off our requests for status invoices mid-project (since this “Rich Princess” actually had limited funds and wanted to make sure she could pay the balance when the bill did arrive).
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The contractors who could only tell us why something “couldn’t” be done of would be “hard.” Amazing how it all got done by others with a can-do attitude.
And that’s enough of a trip down memory lane for now.
I took a hiatus from these boards because I found one of the riding discipline forums to be sadly toxic. Looks like the same crap goes on over here. Too bad, because this could be such a great place for sharing experiences and ideas if there weren’t so many judgmental jerks hell-bent on chastizing people and being condescending twits. OYE VEY. :no:
Sincerely,
Rich Princess
[QUOTE=o0rxkxrox0o;8184884]
I don’t like putting my horses back on pasture directly after spraying either, even if the sprays are considered safe.
Regarding the timeframe, I think 2 weeks would have been sufficient time to fulfill what he promised, unless there was something very dramatic in the weather. Was it raining non-stop? Something else? That would be the factor I’d be looking at.
EDIT: Just read the update, glad all is well :)[/QUOTE]
If you were a contractor and 80% of your residual work and long time customers were in one county, and you got a small one-off four counties away…how much effort would you put into that small one-off?
We do some custom work where our work is aligned with other contractors. It’s a do a bunch now, then go away for 2-3 weeks or more, then hurry back over and button it up kind of deal… Most of that work is in wealthy suburbs within 30 minutes of each other. We just got a contract for a place that you just about can’t get to from here- we’ll get it done- but no, the servicing of That client will suffer. It’s called ‘so many hours in a day’ and ‘some money costs too much.’
[QUOTE=China Doll;8184865]
they are talking about growth stage not wether it is cut or not. When the professional applicators sprayed they always wanted pasture mowed so spray is closer to roots.[/QUOTE]
“foliage is fully expanded” means not recently mowed I think. it has to do with how Pasture Pro works, it goes through the leaves and down to the roots and causes rapid overgrowth that kills the plant. It’s a classic 2-4-D pattern and also has some other stuff in it. If you mow it, the leaves aren’t as good at transferring Pasture pro to the root systems and it doesn’t kill the weeds as well. At least that is how our extension agent explained it to me when I started using the product. He wanted me to let the grass grow a couple of weeks before spraying, and to leave it for a few weeks after. I read somewhere where an employee from the company recommended spraying thistle, etc. in the bud stage for maximum efficiency but as long and weeds are good and established with nice leafing I have found it works well. Maybe that is why you didn’t have good luck with it. Lots of people prefer other products, though, and that is fine, I just happen to like this one! Not everyone needs to. Either way, farming is a lifelong learning process!
PBP, I call it “charge 'em 'til you like 'em”, then if they choose us, we can afford to give them the service.
I live in the boonies. I expect to pay more and have to wait for things.
Glad it worked out, seems like you made a good decision if you want to keep your business relationship for the future. A lot of contractors don’t always know which job they are heading off to until a day before, and don’t really have a schedule lined up for weeks in advance. Things just get done when they get done. And the pasture does have to be dry to spray, so he was being conscientious in that respect.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8184978]
“foliage is fully expanded” means not recently mowed I think. it has to do with how Pasture Pro works, it goes through the leaves and down to the roots and causes rapid overgrowth that kills the plant. It’s a classic 2-4-D pattern and also has some other stuff in it. If you mow it, the leaves aren’t as good at transferring Pasture pro to the root systems and it doesn’t kill the weeds as well. At least that is how our extension agent explained it to me when I started using the product. He wanted me to let the grass grow a couple of weeks before spraying, and to leave it for a few weeks after. I read somewhere where an employee from the company recommended spraying thistle, etc. in the bud stage for maximum efficiency but as long and weeds are good and established with nice leafing I have found it works well. Maybe that is why you didn’t have good luck with it. Lots of people prefer other products, though, and that is fine, I just happen to like this one! Not everyone needs to. Either way, farming is a lifelong learning process![/QUOTE]
This is what we understand as well. The agent to absorb the chemical is through leaves, not root, so you need active growth with good leaves to work. Mowing before spraying defeats the purpose.
I do not believe ANY of the ag companies about safety. I would NEVER want my horses turned out on freshly sprayed grass. Yes, we do have to be respectful of farmers and their time but they also need to be respectful of our concerns. And some farmers are so flipping arrogant I won’t give them my money. WTF… payment for service is the standard for anyone who is self employed. Communication and common decency are the way to build and maintain a business.
they aren’t called independent contractors for no reason …
About the unlocked gate— we put programmable combination locks on the gates to the pastures-- we could give the “code” out then change it afterwards
I usually call early in the spring to get spraying, liming and fertilizing done. I get put on a list, and then a few weeks to a month or so later I usually get about 2 hours of notice that they would like to come. If I called two weeks before I wanted the spraying done I would never expect it to occur that quickly, the people who do it have two machines and they are out every day going down their list of farms that have requested the service. If there are a lot of windy days or rainy days, everyone gets pushed back, not just me. Sometimes weather conditions are good for just a short period of time for any given day and weather reports change rapidly.
Obviously things are different by area and by contractor, but I would never expect to be able to give our spraying contractor a 5-10 day window and get it done for sure then–chances are they would have to give me preferential treatment to do that. Yes, it’s annoying, but the equipment they use to do the spraying is specific and expensive so they keep it in constant use during certain seasons of the year, and with that in mind plus weather considerations it just makes it a very difficult thing to schedule with any precision at all.
As an agronomist at a co-op who does row crop spraying and pasture/hay spraying, I can attest that we are at Mother Nature’s mercy and that can make our job down right impossible at times.
We are a business, which means that we need to make money. I think as a whole, we do a pretty darn good job of answering questions and helping customers of all sizes.
However, when I have 10,000 acres of spraying up on the board, all needing to get done ASAP - the bigger customers, the loyal customer, and ones that I know I can bank on getting a paycheck from year in and year out, are going to move to the top of the list. I need to make sure I don’t tick them off (or as little as possible when nature is not cooperating with weed emergence and rain). Pastures - including my own - will not get done until later.
Don’t take offense if your local agronomy business does this to you. Your 20 acres IS important, but your bill might be peanuts compared to the guys keeping the doors open with 1,000 + acres at $800 worth of inputs per acre.
Please be patient and understanding! Thanks!
[QUOTE=clanter;8191923]
they aren’t called independent contractors for no reason … [/QUOTE]
True Dat! …my farrier comes to mind… and the guy’s we hired to do drywall, and every landscaper we’ve ever tried to hire, and the garage door guy…
But honestly folks, as I sit here in my office, a member of a large international corporation, in a position dealing with both suppliers and customers… I can safely say that this whole “_____ aren’t business men” comment can apply to more than just farmers.
