Am I out of line? Pasture spraying miscommunication

[QUOTE=China Doll;8184865]
they are talking about growth stage not wether it is cut or not. When the professional applicators sprayed they always wanted pasture mowed so spray is closer to roots.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know what herbicide your “professional” is spraying but that’s not how to apply 2-4-D. You do NOT want to mow before spraying just about any 2-4-D based herbicide. Don’t need an extension agent for that information/advice. Says it right on the label/instructions. It is absorbed through the weeds “board leaves” NOT the roots. The more “leaves” the more 2-4-D is absorbed instead of being wasted on the ground. Spaying on a mowed field/paddock is just dumping/spraying money on the ground.

Wait several days after spraying and or until the weeds have wilted pretty good before mowing. It is also best that it doesn’t rain for a couple of days.
It is best and more effective if sprayed during a hot and dry spell. Bigger bang for the buck.

I have said this before and I will say it again Pasture Pro is basically nothing more than 2-4-D with a bucolic picture on the label, $40 per gal. Depending on the “type” at most 50% 2-4-D and 50% water. Verses buying “plain label” 2-4-D 2.5 gal which is 68% to high 70% 2-4-D for around $65. Much bigger bang for the buck

2-4-D does not have any grazing restriction for horses. To each their own on this I won’t get into the diatribe. Waiting a week or two won’t make any difference. The herbicide has already been absorbed into the grass the horses will be eating anyway.

Cool. So can you get these generic 2-4-D from Home Depot? Where do you get them?

[QUOTE=Gloria;8195030]
Cool. So can you get these generic 2-4-D from Home Depot? Where do you get them?[/QUOTE]

I’ve not found 2,4,D in “farm sized” containers at Home Depot. I get mine from either Tractor Supply or our local Co-Op.

Regarding application, we hayed our fields about three weeks ago and I’ve been waiting for the the warm weather weeds to leaf out. Walked the fields on Saturday and decided we had enough leaf to begin.

We always watch the weather and yesterday was a 20% chance of a stray shower. So I fired up the equipment and ran one tank-full before I had to clean up for an appointment. Well, wouldn’t ya know, we were under that “20% chance” shower!!! It’s been dry enough here that I don’t cuss any sort of rain, but it was an annoyance.

This morning I drove over most of the area that I did (the perimeter of a 12 acre field) and was pleasantly surprised by how much of a kill I’d gotten in spite of a poorly timed rainfall. Today is a repeat of yesterday, weather-wise-speaking (high in low 90s, no wind, 20% chance of rain). So I’ll be out shortly and hope that today we miss. Tomorrow is 50% chance of showers! :slight_smile:

As with all herbicides, use the product IAW package directions. It’s not just a Good Idea, it’s the Law!!! :wink:

G.

Yes, gumtree, I didn’t mean to imply that I drug my extension agent out to discuss Pasture Pro on my 20 acres. I happened to be in FFA together with my extension agent back in the day (well, he serves the farm I grew up on, not this one, but doesn’t matter) and I ran into him and his kids at a Tractor and Antique Farm Machinery show my brother was holding around the time I started my weed management program and that is how we got on the subject. Just farm chatter.

I quoted the label earlier, right off the PDF from the website. I just went back to check it to make sure I hadn’t gotten it wrong all this time, but it’s pretty plain.

We can get a couple different 2-4-D variations at our local TSCs.

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8195205]
I’ve not found 2,4,D in “farm sized” containers at Home Depot. I get mine from either Tractor Supply or our local Co-Op.

Regarding application, we hayed our fields about three weeks ago and I’ve been waiting for the the warm weather weeds to leaf out. Walked the fields on Saturday and decided we had enough leaf to begin.

We always watch the weather and yesterday was a 20% chance of a stray shower. So I fired up the equipment and ran one tank-full before I had to clean up for an appointment. Well, wouldn’t ya know, we were under that “20% chance” shower!!! It’s been dry enough here that I don’t cuss any sort of rain, but it was an annoyance.

This morning I drove over most of the area that I did (the perimeter of a 12 acre field) and was pleasantly surprised by how much of a kill I’d gotten in spite of a poorly timed rainfall. Today is a repeat of yesterday, weather-wise-speaking (high in low 90s, no wind, 20% chance of rain). So I’ll be out shortly and hope that today we miss. Tomorrow is 50% chance of showers! :slight_smile:

As with all herbicides, use the product IAW package directions. It’s not just a Good Idea, it’s the Law!!! :wink:

G.[/QUOTE]

LOL, it seems whenever I see 20% chance of rain and decide to go for it and lay down hay it becomes 100% over my 60 acres. When we are having a long hot dry spell my friends jokingly plead with me to make some hay

I have found when it has been reasonably hot and dry for a couple of days and spray 2-4-D it is quickly absorbed. So even if it rains the next day I get good results.

[QUOTE=Gloria;8195030]
Cool. So can you get these generic 2-4-D from Home Depot? Where do you get them?[/QUOTE]

We are located in a big horse and Ag area. So I get my herbicides, seed, and fertilizer from the Ag Supply that the famers use. T-S stocks things according to the “area needs”. When they first opened a store nearby all they stocked was Pasture Pro. Then they started stocking 1 gallon jugs of 2-4-D but was pretty pricy. Now they stock the 2.5 gallon “plain label” 2-4-D that I get at the Ag supply for about the same price.

Understand that 2-4-D targets a lot of weeds. The label will give list. But it is not too effective on some things that can be found in a lot of horse pasture/fields. Mainly “woody” stemmed weeds like thistle, milkweed, poison ivy etc. Though it is usually pretty good at knocking out certain types of “vines” like honey suckle. Buttercups may take two applications depending on conditions when sprayed.

Curtail which is mostly 2-4-D is very effective on the “stubborn stuff”. I am told Crossbow is very good also. Have not used either and don’t know their “graze restrictions”. 2-4-D works well enough on “young” thistle and other woody stuff it applies before it “hardens, matures”. The “pros” told me to mix Clarity with straight 2-4-D for the hardier weeds. Better bang for the buck then buying Curtail in small amounts.

There is a bit of “art and science” to spraying. Amount mixed per gallon of water, sprayer flow rated, ground speed of the tractor, height of the spray nozzles etc. Even more important when spaying large acreage so as to get the best bang for the buck. I have found around 5 oz of 2-4-D per gallon of water works well for what the average small horse farm operator is dealing with. Spot spraying and using a small sprayer with a “normal” nozzle set up. You want to get the weeds wet but not dripping wet so check and adjust ground speed accordingly. A bit of trial and error.

All of the above is based on my experience with my equipment in my neck of the woods.

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8195238]
Yes, gumtree, I didn’t mean to imply that I drug my extension agent out to discuss Pasture Pro on my 20 acres. I happened to be in FFA together with my extension agent back in the day (well, he serves the farm I grew up on, not this one, but doesn’t matter) and I ran into him and his kids at a Tractor and Antique Farm Machinery show my brother was holding around the time I started my weed management program and that is how we got on the subject. Just farm chatter.

I quoted the label earlier, right off the PDF from the website. I just went back to check it to make sure I hadn’t gotten it wrong all this time, but it’s pretty plain.

We can get a couple different 2-4-D variations at our local TSCs.[/QUOTE]

Don’t recall reading your comment regarding “extension agents”. I just read all the time people saying “call your extension” agent. I find talking to “real farmers” more informative and or my Ag supply people who are very generous with their knowledge.

2-4-D is the major component is just about all broad leaf herbicides. It is not “proprietary” anymore so the “name brands” can use as they please. Brands like Curtail, Crossbow have developed their own proprietary additives to target and or more effectively kill stuff that 2-4-D is not very good at.

[QUOTE=gumtree;8195816]
LOL, it seems whenever I see 20% chance of rain and decide to go for it and lay down hay it becomes 100% over my 60 acres. When we are having a long hot dry spell my friends jokingly plead with me to make some hay

I have found when it has been reasonably hot and dry for a couple of days and spray 2-4-D it is quickly absorbed. So even if it rains the next day I get good results.[/QUOTE]

So far, so good on the rain today!!!

We’re fortunate that we have no row crop operations nearby and particularly no tobacco. I was warned that tobacco is very sensitive to 2.4.D and to only use it on dead, calm days if neighbors are growing it. I used to see it pretty regularly around here but have not seen any in the past two or three years.

Concur with your comments on effectiveness and application “art.” We’ve got a “gun” on the back of the rig. It’s great for corners, rock outcroppings, and other obstacles that prevent the rig boom from applying the material. We use a boom sprayer, vice boomless, as I think it gives more precise application and is less subject to wind gust induced drift.

Do you use anything in the sprayer to “mark” the sprayed areas? Most of the time I can follow my tracks but sometimes “spatial disorientation” can be an issue. I’ve heard of “marking devices” that can be put on the ends of booms, but most are for “commercial” spray rigs; mine is pretty small. Have you ever tried using something for a “dye” such as food coloring? Did it work?

G.

I can never see the dye. I have tried it. YMMV.

The surfactant to add to the generic 2-4d is what gives me sticker shock. What are you guys using?

2 4 D needs to hit the leaves, not the roots China Doll.

You were not being out of line. He was. I would be seriously P.O.'d at his laxness and attitude. Sounds like an arrogant businessman to me.

That said, I am a city girl who does not know about things like the need to spray hay, or the risk of turning animals out onto pasture recently sprayed. But if this guy ran a lawn-management company in the suburbs I would be P.O.'d by his lack of handling the job. And I would not hire him again, nor would I recommend him to anyone.

Check your local weather records. Was there any weather that could have prevented him spraying when he said he would? You and he had a valid contract and he did not fulfill his side of it.

There was no miscommunication. There was serious lack of communication on his part.

Why, oh why, do we women start to question ourselves and our feelings and reactions when men eff us up? I bet you that if you were a man and you had contracted with a woman professional to redo your kitchen during a two-seek timeframe when you were out of the country, and she had failed to fulfill her part of the bargain, you would not be questioning your attitude about the mess-up. (Or maybe gallantry would make you!)

[QUOTE=TrotTrotPumpkn;8196355]
I can never see the dye. I have tried it. YMMV.

The surfactant to add to the generic 2-4d is what gives me sticker shock. What are you guys using?[/QUOTE]

I just bought a jug yesterday. $8.99 at AgCentral Co-Op in Harriman, TN.

G.

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8184978]
“foliage is fully expanded” means not recently mowed I think. it has to do with how Pasture Pro works, it goes through the leaves and down to the roots and causes rapid overgrowth that kills the plant. It’s a classic 2-4-D pattern and also has some other stuff in it. If you mow it, the leaves aren’t as good at transferring Pasture pro to the root systems and it doesn’t kill the weeds as well. At least that is how our extension agent explained it to me when I started using the product. He wanted me to let the grass grow a couple of weeks before spraying, and to leave it for a few weeks after. I read somewhere where an employee from the company recommended spraying thistle, etc. in the bud stage for maximum efficiency but as long and weeds are good and established with nice leafing I have found it works well. Maybe that is why you didn’t have good luck with it. Lots of people prefer other products, though, and that is fine, I just happen to like this one! Not everyone needs to. Either way, farming is a lifelong learning process![/QUOTE] It is hard to interpret but I always mowed. The clover that was short and leafy (not mowed) never died either way.

WHAAAAT…you guys spray your pastures with 2,4 D and seriously consider putting your horses back out on it…or anywhere near it.

That stuff isn’t even allowed to be use on lawns in Canada!!!

Strange world.

[QUOTE=vandenbrink;8204320]
WHAAAAT…you guys spray your pastures with 2,4 D and seriously consider putting your horses back out on it…or anywhere near it.

That stuff isn’t even allowed to be use on lawns in Canada!!!

Strange world.[/QUOTE]

Ayup. I carry a gun, too. Except that it shoots 2,4, D!!! :slight_smile:

If Canada has outlawed 2,4,D then you have to live with the law. IMO there is no credible scientific evidence that 2,4,D is unduly hazardous when used IAW label directions. Environmental politics don’t always rest upon sound science.

G.

[QUOTE=vandenbrink;8204320]
WHAAAAT…you guys spray your pastures with 2,4 D and seriously consider putting your horses back out on it…or anywhere near it.

That stuff isn’t even allowed to be use on lawns in Canada!!! [/QUOTE]

Not quite true. Health Canada has declared 2,4-D to be safe for use as long as the label directions are followed. However, some provinces have enacted bans on what they call “cosmetic pesticides,” which would include things like using 2,4-D on your lawn because there is no public health benefit from it; it just makes your lawn look better (if you like a perfect weed-free lawn).

When Quebec banned it, they claimed it was because 2,4-D was toxic. But, in a challenge brought by the manufacturer under the terms of NAFTA, the Quebec government was forced to admit that 2,4-D did not pose a risk to humans or the environment. Quebec can still ban 2,4-D (and does, as far as I know), but they can’t claim it’s because 2,4-D is toxic.

food coloring doesn’t work. I’ve tried it. the blue stuff does…if you have good eyes.

there are places on ebay that sell chemicals cheap with free shipping if you can’t find locally

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8195892]
So far, so good on the rain today!!!

We’re fortunate that we have no row crop operations nearby and particularly no tobacco. I was warned that tobacco is very sensitive to 2.4.D and to only use it on dead, calm days if neighbors are growing it. I used to see it pretty regularly around here but have not seen any in the past two or three years.

Concur with your comments on effectiveness and application “art.” We’ve got a “gun” on the back of the rig. It’s great for corners, rock outcroppings, and other obstacles that prevent the rig boom from applying the material. We use a boom sprayer, vice boomless, as I think it gives more precise application and is less subject to wind gust induced drift.

Do you use anything in the sprayer to “mark” the sprayed areas? Most of the time I can follow my tracks but sometimes “spatial disorientation” can be an issue. I’ve heard of “marking devices” that can be put on the ends of booms, but most are for “commercial” spray rigs; mine is pretty small. Have you ever tried using something for a “dye” such as food coloring? Did it work?

G.[/QUOTE]

I only have a small 50 gal 3 point hitch sprayer and a “spot” sprayer gun for my paddocks and “small” stuff. And “eye ball” it like you. I hire my local Ag Company to spray and fertilize my bigger acreage. The can do things much faster and more efficient use of the costly fertilizer and herbicides. The big equipment they use have a “foamer” on the end of the boom. It periodically “drops” a “ball foam maker” as it moves along. The newer equipment is GPS controlled and the operator just sits and the machine “drives” itself.

Being a “MacGyver” type and spending a lot of time in a tractor seat I’ve thought about fabricating some sort of inexpensive “lap maker”. It shouldn’t be too difficult nor expensive to “MacGyver” a foam marker. Been meaning to check the internet and see if someone has already worked something out. A lot of “MacGyers” out there.

The easiest thing I thought might work is using Ag lime. Make a “bag” out of cheese cloth or something of the like fill it with Ag lime. Make an equal length boom and attach to the front of my tractor hang the “bag” letting it drag and it should leave a white line. There maybe 2 draw backs to this. The “bag” may empty quickly requiring refilling the bag and or have several on hand. Though I should think the “bag” can be “fine” tuned to “release” only what is needed. But if it is too little the “spray” may “erase” the line. Another way to mark with lime would be to hang the “bag” on a pulley system with the rope going to the operator. Periodically drop the bag leaving a white mark. I am not sure it the time and effort to fabricate and operate would be much of a time and herbicide saver in the end. But it would be fun to do and see if it works in my spare time. Not having a lot of spare time I have a feeling this is going to stay on the drawing board for a while.

The only dye I can think of that might work is some sort of “florescent”. Seems to me if there was something out there that would work it would be readily available.

[QUOTE=vandenbrink;8204320]
WHAAAAT…you guys spray your pastures with 2,4 D and seriously consider putting your horses back out on it…or anywhere near it.

That stuff isn’t even allowed to be use on lawns in Canada!!!

Strange world.[/QUOTE]

It may not be used on lawns in Canada but it is certainly used by every Ontario farmer I’ve met (I’m married to a former Ontario farmer, he moved south of the border when we married.)

[QUOTE=vandenbrink;8204320]
WHAAAAT…you guys spray your pastures with 2,4 D and seriously consider putting your horses back out on it…or anywhere near it.

That stuff isn’t even allowed to be use on lawns in Canada!!!

Strange world.[/QUOTE]

Most of Canada is allowed to use 2,4-D. Ontario isn’t Canada. It is federally registered but regionally restricted. Also a turf registration is different from a pasture registration.