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Am I over doing my feed/supplements?

Horse Care
#1

Seems like I keep adding more and more and wondering if I’m over doing it.

History …6 year old ottb mare with history of ulcers. 16.2 hands, 1200 lbs. I have not ridden her yet, currently working out some back soreness issues (whole other topic). Mostly hand walking, small pen turn out or light lunge. She can be a little hot at times.

feeding…
Am/pm: 5 lb alfalfa in feed bin, 5 lb orchard In hay net (20lbs total)
afternoon: 1 average size feed scoop of dried shredded beet pulp (then soaked ) , 2 cup rice bran, with…biotin, forco , equine omega complete, magnesium 5000 l, Redmond daily gold trace minerals, gelatin and u7

Am I over doing the supplements?
Also, she doesn’t seem to care for the orchard. would I be better off with Bermuda or 3 way/grain hay instead of the orchard ?

#2

If you are going to go the route of balancing your own diet you should probably get a hay analysis done. Any pasture?

1 Like
#3

To answer your question, I don’t think you are “over doing” your supplements, but what is ‘forco’? Why gelatin and biotin?
Could she have another flake of alfalfa at lunch rather than beet pulp?

I would stay away from ‘grain hay’. Don’t know about Bermuda since we don’t have that here.

This is what I would ask myself:
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with your supplements? (what is your end goal?) That should tell you if you need them or not.

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#4

Supplements are medications. What sort of a SOAP did you do to decide the supplement was needed? Did you research how each supplement will react to other supplements? What is your overall goal in terms of discipline and training?

Not only are supplements medications they are the most under-regulated aspect of health in the U.S. While there is a very weak FDA oversight it’s so weak…<how weak is it?>it’s so weak you can’t even be sure that what’s on the label is actually in the bottle!!! Under such circumstances you have to be VERY careful as you are your own veterinary researcher and you horse is your guinea pig.

Given your present feed program I can see why the mare might be a little “hot.”

I’d presume your mare has had little in the way of actual training because track TBs are trained only for one thing: to run fast. That was the goal of the breeder of the horse. So suitability for anything besides running fast is an open question.

Plan on restarting the mare. I’d recommend you download for free Vladimir Littauer’s classic Common Sense Horsemanship. That will give you a step by step program that will take seven months to complete. But if you complete the program you should have a very solid horse under you when you’re done. And if you get the horse into regular, intelligent work you may find that the supplement shelf in your tack locker will be bare because you don’t need any of them.

Good luck as you go forward.

G.

6 Likes
#5

She’d probably do well with being allowed out into a larger pasture to give her a chance to stretch her legs. (Of course if you’re keeping her in small-paddock turnout on the advice of a vet, I’d consult with the vet first).

TBs like to run. They really do. They can get kinda crabby if they don’t get the chance to open up. My TB mare, who lived to 23, right up until her final day would run laps in the pasture when she was first turned out in the morning. Not all of them are fast, but they’ve all been bred to run.

3 Likes
#6

20lb hay for a 1200lb horse is less than 2% of her weight. Is there a reason you’re reducing her hay intake? How is her weight?

afternoon: 1 average size feed scoop of dried shredded beet pulp (then soaked ) , 2 cup rice bran, with…biotin, forco , equine omega complete, magnesium 5000 l, Redmond daily gold trace minerals, gelatin and u7

Am I over doing the supplements?

Is there a reason you’re not using a regular fortified feed? This diet isn’t balanced, and is definitely low in Vit E if she’s not getting enough grass (which seems to be the case). I assume you haven’t had her terribly long. Will she have access to pasture and more room to move? It’s not surprising she’s “hot” with only hand walking and small pen turnout.

I DO think the supplements are overkill, but from the perspective of not using a commercial feed

What made you choose each of these supplements? That might help us help you

Also, she doesn’t seem to care for the orchard. would I be better off with Bermuda or 3 way/grain hay instead of the orchard ?

Personally, I would avoid all grain hays. If she doesn’t like the Orchard, you need a better idea of why. Sometimes horses just don’t like OG, but sometimes they reason they don’t like a given hay is not palatable and too indigestible, so without knowing more, it’s hard to know what to change.

Bermuda is a generic category of hays. I would not feed Coastal, but there are some other very nice varieties of Bermuda grasses, so it depends on what you have access to.

@Obsidian Fire -Forco is a digestive supplement.

1 Like
#7

What’s wrong with coastal?
id call the free vet at Smartpak and get some advice

#8

I’m in Los Angeles county. No pasture to graze on.

I keep her exercise limited for now because she injured herself in turn out running, bucking , rearing like a maniac. Will scheduling her a massage and adjustment soon.

u7 and forco for ulcers/digestion
Biotin and gelatin for hooves/coat
trace minerals for just that
magnesium for nerve and muscle function
omega complete for essential fatty acids and vit e

I have had her on the 20 lbs hay/grass with beet pulp and rice bran since i got her in april. No issues with weight, up or down. I know i will have to increase the feed once she starts work. Even then, I’m hesitant to add more alfalfa due to hotness.

I have ridden at many training barns in So Cal. Never has a trainer I’ve ridden with fed their horses a complete feed. Just hay/grass and rice bran/beet pulp/supplement mash.

#9

Coastal Bermuda is implicated in increased risks of an ileal impaction due to its fine stem, and very easy to have too high in lignin.

Be aware that anyone at Smartpack is working to sell supplements.

Ok, so the diet is definitely lacking in Vitamin E. Horses need 1-2IU/lb, and I would be supplementing her with the upper end, so 1200lb means at least 2400IU. I’d assume she probably weighs a bit more than that, so I’d just do 2500-3000

I keep her exercise limited for now because she injured herself in turn out running, bucking , rearing like a maniac. Will scheduling her a massage and adjustment soon.

Ok, but you’re in a catch-22 here. If she’s currently injured, I get it. But going forward, the less turnout she has, the more she’s going to want and need to let off excess energy.

u7 and forco for ulcers/digestion
Biotin and gelatin for hooves/coat
trace minerals for just that
magnesium for nerve and muscle function
omega complete for essential fatty acids and vit e

Equine Omega Complete is high in Omega 6 (pro-inflammatory) which horses really don’t need more of. This is fine if all you’re after is fat calories, but if you’re after the more beneficial Omega 3, there are better choices.

The Daily Gold Stress Relief isn’t a v/m supplement. It’s an ulcer supplement, and is basically bentonite clay with a few trace minerals. It’s not comprehensive, and isn’t helping the unbalanced diet.

Is there a NEED for the magnesium? Most likely there isn’t since you’re feeding 10lb of alfalfa.

Gelatin is iffy at best for improving anything, as borne out by studies. Can it affect a given horse? Yes. Not likely though.

You’d have MUCH more success in helping her coat and feet and digestion with a professionally designed, quality, low NSC commercial feed. Even a ration balancer, which is probably about the calories you’re feeding now, would be immensely more nutritionally balanced and complete, and way cheaper than hodge-podging all these supplements together which are a bit iffy at best in some cases.

I have had her on the 20 lbs hay/grass with beet pulp and rice bran since i got her in april. No issues with weight, up or down. I know i will have to increase the feed once she starts work. Even then, I’m hesitant to add more alfalfa due to hotness.

I have ridden at many training barns in So Cal. Never has a trainer I’ve ridden with fed their horses a complete feed. Just hay/grass and rice bran/beet pulp/supplement mash.

Trainers are good at training horses, most know nothing about feeding them other than to see what keeps weight and shine on. even then, a lot of it is about supplementing for coat and feet and energy, without even knowing to evaluate the base diet. Don’t look to what trainers are doing. Look to what professionals and the very educated in the nutrition area know what to do to put the most into a horse without killing your wallet.

A good ration balancer (LMF should be easily accessible to you), would do wonders for her. Add more Vit E to that. Drop the Forco and U7 and see how she is. Drop the biotin and gelatin and see how things go. If you decide she does need extra hoof support, then add the biotin back in - don’t bother with the gelatin.

I have several friends at various barns in SoCal and they all have horses on commercial feeds.

9 Likes
#10

If she’s doing good on current diet ,then don’t Change it. There’s a saying ,if it ain’t broke don’t fix it goes for horse’s diets also.

#11

Except the current diet isn’t balanced, it’s low in Vitamin E, I all but guarantee it’s low in copper and zinc, and even if the goal were to keep her just the same (which doesn’t sound to be the case, given her propensity towards being hot), there are more efficient and balanced ways to do it. This is just a hodge-podge of stuff thrown together without (seemingly) any idea of the bigger picture. No judgement, we’ve all done it. But that’s how it all reads to me.

5 Likes
#12

Jb. Thank you for all that. You have given me some things to think about. Seems your suggestions would cost me less as well. What is LMF?

#13

LMF feeds; you can google them. They are a good brand.

2 Likes
#14

LMF is a ration balancer. Just an fyi if the protein in alfalfa hay makes your horse hot. Not sure how high the protein is on LMF. But TC 30% has made my one horse a lunatic. Tc 30 is also a ration balancer not sure if LMF is similar or not.

#15

About turnout. I am at a suburban barn. Stalls have small runouts, and there is a nice big ring for attended buck and run turnout.

I have seen numerous folks with TB and WB get into trouble because they either want to bubble wrap their horses or get afraid to handwalk down to the turnout ring. The horses get explosive. They longe them buck bolt n rear in the indoor which IMHO is way worse than liberty turnout for injuries.

When the horse ends up with chronic stress injuries from longeing or riding it’s blamed on turnout injuries.

Those of us who incorporate run n buck turnout as part of the horses weekly routine honestly have sounder and saner horses long term. Including TB and WB. They learn to handle themselves running in turnout. They get the wiggles out. They don’t do bolt buck skid and slip on the longe. They lose some of that explosive energy.

Totally necessary IMHO in suburban barn without pastures.

5 Likes
#16

As another So Cal person here, have you tried either Integrity Senior or Triple Crown Senior? Also many feed stores carry a alfalfa/Timothy grass hay blend bales.

#17

LMF does make a ration balancer, but they have other products as well. I’m a Triple Crown fan, thanks to JB <3

IMO, protein does not make a horse “hot”. Excess calories and limited turnout will, however.

#18

LMF is a brand. They happen to have a couple of ration balancers, the A formula for alfalfa/legume/high protein forage based diets, and the G formula for grass/lower protein based diets.

Just an fyi if the protein in alfalfa hay makes your horse hot. Not sure how high the protein is on LMF.

Protein doesn’t make a horse hot. The source can. Alfalfa happens to be one of the more common courses. Besides, there’s a big difference between 10lb of 20% alfalfa, and 1lb of a 30% ration balancer.

2 Likes
#19

Was feeding 2 lbs tc 30 horse is in hard work. Quit feeding it ,now 24 hours later he’s not a lunatic. I liked the feed because his skin issues cleared up. Rain rot & scratches are gone.

Hate to admit but lack of nutrition has obviously, been cause of skin issues I’ve been battling every summer. Will try a different rb.

The LMF yeah I know is a brand of feed, also know they carry a rb.

#20

Please will someone direct me to the magic feed that makes a horse hot! :slight_smile:

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