Amateur rule: where do you protest someone’s status?

I hate to be that person. I don’t want to be. But, someone who claims to be an AA is probably claiming remuneration by way of discounted boarding for training/teaching. I’m 95% positive.
Should I report her?
Can it be reported?
Is it worth it?
Does it matter she that she is the worst kind of person?
Sincerely,
Someone who doesn’t take this lightly.

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amateurinquiry@usef.org

You need to state all the facts clearly when you contact them.

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Do you need proof? Is it a situation where there could be proof?

Is the person truly a pro who has pro skills and is unfairly competing ammie? Or is she a trainwreck ammie who is “training” horses for someone who knows nothing? That’s still against the rules of course.

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Let me guess, this is Terrible Boarder from your other thread. It sounds like she is not really a pro masking as an ammie, but rather an ammie pretending to be a pro. From what you say she isn’t going to be winning much.

I don’t know how you could prove this charge. Audit the owners books? I’ve been at barns where I was encouraged to pay part or all of my board in cash so the owner had ready cash for expenses. If they said Terrible Boarder was paying part cash there’d be no way to prove your claim.

Also all this only counts at USEF recognized shows. Is anyone at that level yet? USEF has no jurisdiction over unrecognized schooling shows. Do you ever know if TB is a USEF member?

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As someone who has been turned in, accused of being a pro but truly an ammy…go ahead, spend your money. If you aren’t absolutely sure and have all your ducks in a row, you’ll just be throwing money away. I was falsely accused; and they did not prove their case. There’s a special place in hell for that ‘wonderful-petty shrew’ person.

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This… ^^^^^^^^The AA rule is one of the most horrible and most stupid rules ever, destroying any true sport… it was created to protect rich bad riding AAs and it brings out the worst in people…

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I guess my question would be what difference it makes to your life, and in the bigger picture. If she is truly a professional quality rider and competing as an amateur simply to win all the classes? Then maybe. But if she is just an average Joe paying some of her horse expenses by rider other people’s’ horses? Meh. Sounds like she is occupying space in your head for another reason.

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Like I said, I’m 95% sure there is compensation.
Someone missed that I don’t take this lightly. But when someone mentions so many times that they are ammy status but visibly training and teaching, it tends to bring questions to others.
She is a USEF/USDF rider with an incredible string of horses that make her look good. Training practices are questionable, but she seems to do OK in her divisions. So maybe pro rider but ammy status?
*yes… this is TB from another thread.

Before I get called a “shrew” again, I really think it could be useful to be able to report someone. I’ve seen plenty of cases where people were rightfully deemed not ammy. I’ve also seen it been used it wrongfully. But after much research, I couldn’t find any way to protest a riders status. Thus, coming here.

I myself am considered pro, because I ride horses for money (albeit older ladies horses to keep in shape) and teach very low level riders. Does this enhance my career? No. I feel my attending clinics, volunteering, and taking regular lessons take me further than teaching a beginner to post at the trot.
I have a full time job and support the horses with that income. The money I make basically pays for my insurance to teach/ride and maybe 2 competition entry fees.
I am an avid LL eventer. I don’t have dreams to compete at upper levels ( not since I was a teen). But yet when I compete, I show with some seriously big names in the industry in my division. Do I think that’s fair? Nope. That makes the playing ground super uneven. Even on there super expensive well trained green horses. does not compare to my well to do average pony.
The end result is I have been questioning the compensation of ammy in question for some time. I recently have had an instance that makes me more sure than before.
Will I report her? Not until I have hard evidence. And if I never get that piece of damning information, so be it.

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I am no helping finding you where to report someone, but I do not feel it is wrong to want others to follow the rules and I do not see why it makes one a shrew for wanting others to follow the rules.

From reading thread on this forum, I do believe it is on the person reporting to make sure there is proof of the remuneration. So if you are going to report someone be sure you have your ducks in a row (aka proof).

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Agreed. Honestly this is a big fear of mine. I’m an ammie but mentor someone, for free completely. Just helping and watching rides every day. I would be very VERY careful unless you know 100%

Also reminds me, someone reported me to our Eventing governing body in Ontario, for not having a certified vest. Meanwhile, it was a new vest that was the highest safety rating and paid like $500 for it. In Canada we had a rule change where you have to wear a BETA3 vest. Anyways, I wear orange laces on my vest, and had them on my old vest. So whoever my stalker Stan was must have thought it was still my old Tipperary vest, but it wasn’t. So when OE reached out to, I confirmed with details it was in fact a new certified vest. But now I always think about the dick head who is out to try and get me eliminated over something they were completely wrong about.

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I guess I look at this stuff wrong. To me this is someone trying to keep everyone safe. No harm was done by someone checking your vest. You were following the rules, your vest was fine. If you had not been following the rules this might have been the check that kept you safe.

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I promise I’m not a narc. I honestly just feel like she misrepresenting herself.
If I saw anyone else teaching/training, I don’t question it. It’s not my place. I don’t know them, they don’t know me.
Again, suspected ammy/pro makes it glaringly obvious she’s in charge of said teaching/training.
And my proof? Well, does hearing the receiver of training/teaching offer compensation count?
It wouldn’t hold up in a court of law, why would it with the USDF?
Just by posting this I’m exposing myself as a witness. But still I find it’s not enough to report her or worth the trouble to start the process.

As I’ve read on COTH you need to post a $200 deposit refundable if the charges are proven true, plus have some evidence. And obviously behave in such a way that no one at the barn ever suspects it was you.

I would assume you pay $200, at most USEF queries the rider, the rider denies and all continues on. If USEF even bothers to act on a vague complaint. Is it worth $200 to you to rattle her cage and cause some static?

From your other post, it’s pretty clear your larger motivation is to get TB to leave the barn or to stop playing Trainer for a Day. But that’s not guaranteed in the least. It could backfire. She could declare pro status and start accepting cash from other riders at the barn.

You don’t compete against her. You just really dislike her. I totally understand that. But in thinking up more underhanded ways to defeat her, you are allowing her more real estate in your head. The only way you will be free of her is to genuinely get to that Zen place where you don’t care, and she becomes part of the comedy of life.

Realize too that if she were to evaporate tomorrow the BO would probably replace her with either another big talking ammie wannabe trainer, or a gen-uw-yne DQ crank and spur low end pro. You don’t necessarily revert to the past situation of you being the only trainer.

TB DQ is taking nothing away from your own journey in eventing.

Also I’m having trouble evaluating her skill levels here. In the first thread she is a borderline incompetent yahoo that doesn’t understand correct side reins and is ruining horses. In this thread she is successful with good horses. Both cannot be true.

Have you looked her up on USEF yet? It can do wonders for one’s equanimity to discover that the barn loud mouth spurred her way up to Fourth Level never getting more than a 55 on a test at any level.

On the other hand if she is riding consistent 75 scores at anything above Training Level (which tends to reward raw equine quality and baby warmoods), you will have to admit that she is pretty skilled and it’s more than just buying nice horses.

If she’s riding consistent 63 scores you can choose whether to sneer or be impressed :slight_smile:

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how about raw equine ability in non-baby-warmbloods? (serious inquiry)

Scrib’s post says equine talent AND baby WB’s. Every sound horse should be able to do TL.

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Just an aside, someone can have pro-level skills and still be an amateur according to the rules. It always just looks like jealousy to me when people complain about “rich ammies” that have better skills and better horses. @Scribbler 's post about how to achieve zen is right on.

I just moved to a new barn. I’m no superstar but have earned my bronze and silver with respectable scores. When no one knows you, there are always people who assume you know nothing and want to “help.” I just say thank you and do my own thing. I’m too old to worry about what other people are doing regarding their pro vs amateur status.

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I read that as an either/or, so either raw equine ability, or baby warmbloods. not the raw equine ability OF baby warmbloods.

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There are much less aggressive ways to ensure someone is being safe - like approaching them and asking them about their vest. Going straight to reporting someone to a regulatory body is a huge escalation.

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@Scribbler’s post is so wise! Excellent advice.

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My point about raw equine talent and baby WB at Training Level was a bit tongue in cheek. But I have absolutely seen riders with very nice green horses that move nicely out of the box, score in the 70s at TL. When a much better trained horse with less dressage talent might get a 60. But I’ve noticed that several riders I watch, ammies or low end pros, have that high scoring TL ride in the first year and then never manage to score anything like that or even compete at First Level. Yes, you can make a horse break down schooling First level.

I just meant that if TB DQ had a bunch of high scores at TL it could reflect the raw quality of her young horses, and if she can’t continue getting decent scores that reflects her training program.

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