Amateurs earning Bronze Medal on an OTTB?

[luckycricket123]

Posting to hear opinions and experiences of amateur owners who have earned (or are attempting to earn) their bronze on an OTTB, specifically at 2nd and 3rd level.

I have a nice OTTB who moves well and has a relaxed attitude that translates well to the ring. At training level, he consistently scored in the high 60s or low 70s. I already have my scores at 1st from another horse, but this horse should have no problem at 1st.

I start to worry when I look at the tests for 2nd and 3rd. I just can’t decide how much he will improve with continued training. I’m trying not to overthink it - if my horse is a training/1st level horse right now, of course he can’t do 2nd and 3rd! But at the same time, I wonder how much I will be fighting his natural abilities. He is a nice mover and tends to stay very relaxed at shows, which largely contributed to our success at training level. But he has a big uphill canter that he doesn’t really care to collect.

The lateral work he’s done has come pretty easily for him, but I am more concerned about collecting the canter. I think walk/canter/walks will be a big struggle for him, as well as collecting the canter after an extension.

I plan to attend our local schooling shows to get a sense of how he’ll score before paying the big $$$ to show recognized, but I also wonder how other amateurs went about training their OTTBs to 2nd and 3rd level and earning their bronzes.

[Manni01]

So, have you trained or ridden horses up to 2nd or 3rd level before? I guess that would be the most important part of the equation not whether your horse is an OTTB

[barnesthenoble]

People can and have gotten all of their medals on their OTTBs. Have you ridden to 3rd+? Has your trainer ridden and trained to 3rd+? The latter is more important than the former, but both will help. And even if the answer is no to the former, it can still be done.

Sue Gallagher is a trainer back east in the US who does a lot of work with some nice OTTBs. She also has lovely WBs. She has a fabulous grey OTTB right now who is showing 3rd iirc. She also recently retired her older fellow from competition, who she trained to GP. There are others out there but hers is the name I can remember.

There are SO many things that can go wrong or right in the journey up the levels regardless of breed. Yes, you may have a harder time with certain movements than someone on a purpose-bred WB, but even the most royally bred, naturally collected mover may not end up making it to 3rd.

With good quality, consistent training and no soundness issues, I think it is absolutely possible for the horse to change substantially and move up the levels to 3rd. Much of collection will come from strength and suppleness. Remember, the levels are designed to build on each other and the movements are tools for training, not just to show you can do them. This is where a good trainer and clinicians can help you find the tools to use at different stages of training and to help troubleshoot issues. But I wouldn’t be worrying about canter/walk/canter transitions until the horse has a really good walk/canter, 15m canter circle, shoulder in at the canter, leg yield at the canter, adjustability to lengthen and shorten, etc etc etc.

IIWM I’d worry less about whether he’ll get there, and focus more on introducing the exercises to build him to that point. If he’s not actually really working on first level asks yet, start. Build the blocks. Take him to clinics, lessons, etc. He will get there, or he won’t–but the only way to really find out is to try. It will take time, potentially a lot of time.

[SillyHorse]

My trainer took her OTTB from 0 to GP, getting her gold medal with him. She wasn’t the accomplished rider and trainer she is today when she started with him, but she had good instruction and worked hard. A bronze medal is certainly possible if you have good instruction and are a good student.

[Knubbsy]

I just looked at the all breed awards for this past season - for the Jockey Club Amateur category there were 5 Thoroughbreds who qualified (8 tests, average above 60%) at 3rd and another at 4th, in just one year. Some raced, some didn’t. It’s definitely doable as a general concept of an Adult Amateur getting their bronze on an OTTB

[HeartsDesireEventing]

I earned my Bronze on two Thoroughbred geldings I trained - one off the track, one not. The second is hopefully aiming for Fourth next year. So yes, it is possible, but as others have said, it depends on the horse and the quality of your training.

The first TB, who was the off the track horse, sounds a bit like your guy - rangy mover, scored well at First Level (including winning the state championship) but struggled with the collection, especially when we started expecting flying changes in the Third Level work. He still earned my 5 of the 6 required scores, but he definitely wasn’t happy at Third Level, and I quickly stopped competing him at that level and sold him as a lower level schoolmaster (he was already on his third career after being my primary eventer so no real need to push the 15yo up the dressage levels if he wasn’t happy doing it).

The second TB is a different ride - more balanced and lighter, but less natural suspension so the lengthenings don’t come as easily, but he improves by leaps and bounds as he gets stronger and fitter. The more dressage training he does, the better his movement gets. His canter is better than his trot, so the flying changes are much easier for him than the above horse. He is also on his second career after being my upper level eventer and is about to turn 20, but is still enjoying the work at Fourth Level, so we will keep playing with him as long as he’s happy doing things.

Score-wise, the first horse above could score 70% at First Level, but was usually mid 60s at Second, and barely hitting 60% at Third. Second horse, can also be 70% or better at First Level, and has been in the mid-60s at Second and Third, although he hasn’t competed either one very much - just one or two tests at each level.

[pluvinel]

@luckycricket123

The lateral work he’s done has come pretty easily for him, but I am more concerned about collecting the canter. I think walk/canter/walks will be a big struggle for him, as well as collecting the canter after an extension.

The problem is not the horse. The problem is your attitude. You have mentally given up on this horse’s abilities.

The best way to see the horse’s natural abilities is to put him in a pen, ring or indoor and free school him. Ask him to GO!!! See what he does. If he sits back and canters off, you have your answer.

If he can do the lateral work, that is the begining of collection so I don’t see any problem with canter transitions…other than in your mind.

[PonyApocalypse19]

@crthunder is an AA competing her OTTB at Grand Prix and did all the training herself!

[SamBee]

Third level should be achievable for most horses with decent conformation and clear, correct gaits. Training the horse to Third Level correctly is the hard part for most amateurs, but definitely a reasonable goal with consistent help from a good pro. Go for it!

[2tempe]

Some years back I was fortunate enough to buy a then 15 yr old schoolmaster, shown thru 4th had the basic skills for PSG. He was a long, tall TB, never raced but very good training by prior owner. Like yours, calm and easy pretty much anywhere. That horse took me from training level to PSG over the next 5 years, easily earning my bronze scores, and pretty easily my 4th level scores (63/64). We did 6-8 PSG tests, accurate and decent but scores were consistently 58-59. Comments were consistently “needs more collection” At 20 it didn’t seem right to try and get that level of collection, even though he was sound and healthy. So I had to wait for another horse to finish my silver. BUT YES it can be done. Be positive and patient and hopefully get some help from a good professional.

[sparkygrace]

You can do it! I know many people who have obtained a bronze or silver on their OTTBS. I have had two that easily schooled some third level movements. As someone else said, any sound decently conformed horse can do third level. You may have to adjust your training if your horse tends to be tense. Always try to ride a perfect test with transitions at the letters and accurate geometry. Make sure your movements like leg yield and shoulder-in are correct. You will pick up points that you may have lost in movement scores.

[MadTrotter]

I hope you stick with it with your OTTB. It’s a sad day when we just throw up our hands and give in to the belief that a motivated ammie needs a purpose bred warmblood to get a bronze.

[RAyers]

Not sure if I should be feeling as offended as I am. Every horse I’ve ever had has been an OTTB and all have gone up to at least 3rd.

I agree, it the attitude of the OP that is the issue, not the horse. You never know until you actually go do it. My previous OTTB was great through second, trained into 3rd when he started shutting down. It was clear he was never going higher. But at least I made the effort. The initial post here sounds almost like they are looking for an excuse to not really try and do the work necessary even though they have a plan.

[luckycricket123]

@RAyers

Not sure if I should be feeling as offended as I am. Every horse I’ve ever had has been an OTTB and all have gone up to at least 3rd.

I had to go back and re-read my post to make sure I didn’t unintentionally slander OTTBs in general. And now that I am sure that I spoke only about my horse I’m going to say you shouldn’t be feeling as offended as you are.

I know that people have earned their bronzes with their OTTBs. I know amateurs have done it. That’s why I am asking for their experiences. I don’t think the experience of pros or people riding purpose-bred warmbloods will be the same as mine, which is why I am specifically asking about AAs on OTTBs.

I’m surprised that some of the responses have been so antagonistic. I’m an amateur with limited free time and limited money and going to recognized dressage shows is expensive and time-consuming. I want to set goals for myself and my horse, but I thought it was reasonable to ask around first to make sure I’m not trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

[Jump314]

I’m an amateur and I keep my horses at home. I earned my bronze and silver on my OTTB. We got up to Intermediate I, scoring in the mid-60s, when I decided that was the highest he could go. He can piaffe but doesn’t have the suspension for a good passage and the ones are hard for him. I have also competed him through CCI2* eventing.

I have a second OTTB who I switched from doing both disciplines to now just focusing on dressage. We scored 69+% at PSG in October and I plan to move up to Intermediate I in spring. I think this horse has the ability to make it to Grand Prix. It took him a while to get the hang of tempi changes, he wanted to get really tense, but now that he has them, I only started schooling twos after our October show and he can do them reliably now.

As long as your horse is sound, there is no reason he can’t make it to at least third. You need a good trainer and you need the dedication to work on it most days of the week. To save money, I don’t go to a recognized show until I can confidently show the level at a schooling show. I’ll show the upper levels at a schooling show, even if the judge isn’t “officially” qualified to judge the level, because I can tell if I have a good test and if my horse is well-prepared.

[Hej]

Of course you can.
I got my bronze, silver, and the I-1 scores towards my gold on my OTTB.
I will say that I am lucky to have an excellent trainer/coach who is committed to teaching her students to really ride and train their horses themselves. She is also a USDF gold medalist and an S judge, so knows what she’s teaching from both angles.

[tarheelmd07]

I agree with what’s been said here about how the rate-limiting step is most often whether the rider has ridden to 3rd or brought along a horse to 3rd before. I’m an ammy with a busy non-horse job and I’m 2/3 of the way to my bronze on my 17yo OTTB eventer…and as it’s both our first times at 3rd level, this is where things have gotten tougher. Not because the horse is incapable but because we’re both learning together…but the goal is to get it done in 2024!

[blue_heron]

Where did you get this coat? I think I need one…

[merrygoround]

At Training and First, he’s just beginning to build the muscle necessary for collection. Have you ridden or trained to Second before? S/I & H/I are the gymnastics necessary to build to collection.

So go on and keep working, remembering that collection comes from strength behind.

It’s not the breed that counts but the ability of the rider to patiently move the horse forward through sensible training.

[pluvinel]

@luckycricket123

I’m surprised that some of the responses have been so antagonistic. I’m an amateur with limited free time and limited money and going to recognized dressage shows is expensive and time-consuming. I want to set goals for myself and my horse, but I thought it was reasonable to ask around first to make sure I’m not trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

I will reply since perhaps the comment above was addressed to me. I don’t think people are being “antagonistic.” You are getting realistic feedback. Most of the people on this board are AA’s, with limited funds, who work real day jobs.

In your original post you said

@luckycricket123

I start to worry when I look at the tests for 2nd and 3rd. I just can’t decide how much he will improve with continued training.

You haven’t said you have tried…or what you haven’t tried for those higher level test, that maybe people could provide exercises for improving. Your statement of " I just can’t decide how much he will improve with continued training" says the limitations are in your mind.

@luckycricket123

I’m trying not to overthink it

You are.

@luckycricket123

But at the same time, I wonder how much I will be fighting his natural abilities.

But you haven’t reached the limits of his natural abilities since you haven’t explored where those limits are.

@luckycricket123

He is a nice mover and tends to stay very relaxed at shows, which largely contributed to our success at training level. But he has a big uphill canter that he doesn’t really care to collect.

Perhaps he “doesn’t care to collect” because YOU don’t know how to prepare him to collect. This is where having a good trainer with a good eye, knowledge of OTTB’s and a repertoire of exercises is invaluable.

On this board there was a recent poster who was also worried about canter/walk transitions. She tried some suggestion from this board and seems to have been very successful…so successful that she was now getting canter/halt transitions.

Horse provide insights to the rider. Podhajsky wrote the book called “My Horses, My Teachers.” I suggest you listen to your horse and have him help you to learn.