American Riding Instructors Association

I know nothing about ARIA certification, but one of the reasons I’m planning on getting USDF certified is because of the educational component - there are workshops to be attended before sitting the exam, opportunities to sit with some great American teachers and talk about teaching; then, after one is certified, there are opportunities available that aren’t available to uncertified instructors (this year the CIs got to watch Friday’s schooling with Ingrid Klimke at the Symposium, whereas Saturday and Sunday were open to the masses).

And of course those without certification are not necessarily bad teachers, but for us young professionals who ARE good but DO have to compete for business with “big names,” certification does help add credibility. Ultimately, I’d hope that anyone looking for an instructor would watch that teacher at work, and take a “test drive” lesson, no matter how big a name, how many certificates they hold, how many Grand Prixes they’ve won, etc etc.

As am I, to be who I am. How lucky we are, eh? :cool:

Would you mind returning to the discussion now? I’d really like answers to my questions.

Adamantane, I want to be you when I grow up. Thank you for posting this. Would that I had the capacity to do so. :cool:

How can you subscribe so faithfully to the teachings of the ODGs and yet argue so fervently against certification of riding instructors?

Go to Germany and watch kids come up through the ranks, going through all kinds of certification processes before they can put up their shingle as a Bereiter or more. Those are the very same people we always refer to as the “gold standard” for horse training, right? Our Olympic hopefuls all go to Europe for that reason…

So then certification is something that’s ok in Europe but “not in my backyard?”

I understand that there are many more aspects to certification, but one has to start somewhere. And while I though Adamante’s post amusing in its depiction of extremes, I didn’t find any logical conclusions in it. Riding instructor certification does NOT equal persecution by the law in case of non-compliance. People will always have a choice of where and how to obtain their riding knowledge, and keeping it in the family (as in Grandma or Grandpa) has always been acceptable.

Riding instructor certification is a step in the right direction. Is it going to answer all the questions right away or be perfect coming out of the chute? No, most likely not. But eventually it will become a better process and will result in better “products.” I’m looking forward to the day where I can look at a list of trainers in my area and, based on their certifications listed can pick out a qualified young horse trainer. Why? Because the certification process at that point required that trainer to have started so many young horses and brought them to a certain level. Wouldn’t that be nice?

Originally Posted by siegi b. I happen to agree with Velvet that mandatory certification is only a matter of time. And I also think that it’s a good thing

Per dictionary.com:[INDENT]man·da·to·ry [/INDENT][INDENT]1.authoritatively ordered; obligatory; compulsory: It is mandatory that all students take two years of math. 2.pertaining to, of the nature of, or containing a command. 3.Law. permitting no option; not to be disregarded or modified: a mandatory clause. [/INDENT]OK, Siegi, which is it? Maybe I misunderstand your posts or you mis-stated your position in one post or the other, or you misunderstood Velvet, but what part of mandatory here provides ‘non-persecution by the law in case of non-compliance?’

Make no mistake, if certification is mandatory, there will be some kind of enforcement mechanism, and it won’t consist of a group of folks standing around looking sad and shaking their heads with disappointment in their eyes. :no: :no: :no:

You can bet that even if some folks would just as soon look the other way, others won’t. We all know people who have no patience with folks in the barn bending the rules, and people like that are everywhere. :yes:

The point is, involving the law (which means sooner or later calling in law enforcement, which comes down to people with guns on their hips) regarding a private voluntary transaction like this is not only unnecessary, bureaucratic and cumbersome, it’s just plain not very nice.

Simply because Massachusetts or Germany or Upper Volta may have some kind of licensure requirement doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.

Non-mandatory certification, whatever its meaningfulness, limitations, pros or cons, at the very least is voluntary.

You do have a point which I’ll concede in that a law could be written such that parents and grandparents (or maybe uncles and aunts or great uncles and great aunts, or maybe not, or unmarried partners, or maybe not, etc., etc.) can teach their kids without a license as they please.

But, of course, if little Cindy’s best friend Susie wants to take lessons from Cindy’s grandma together with Cindy, grandma is going to have a serious problem on her hands whatever she does.:yes:

Do you REALLY not understand what Siegi is saying? or are you just picking at nits?

By all means, if you disagree with the point of her posts… have at it. But quoting the definition of “mandatory” is just childish and snarky. Let’s try to behave like adults…

rileyt, I think it’s you who has the problem understanding Adamantane. He’s only pointing out inconsistencies in siegi’s posts. I see them, too, and would like to know her actual position. That’s not being snarky. That’s asking for clarification. :winkgrin:

Adamantane,
I could not agree more, thank you thank you!

And please people I hope you think about what Adamantane has written very carefully, and don’t ever forget it!!!

The attitude of legislating everything and truly believing that putting everything in the hands of government force will help to solve any and every problem that people think needs to be solved, is very very scary and leading us down a very dangerous path. A path that we have unfortunately already been on for much too long, and one that is now seen as normal by too many people.

I grew up in a Libertarian house hold…if anyone doesn’t understand the implications of that I strongly encourage you to read some books on the matter.

CATO has a good website and bookstore
http://www.cato.org/

I happen to (mostly) agree with adamante, but I also see a way of reading seigi’s posts that is not necessarily contradicting.

Perhaps it was quoting the dictionary meaning of the word “mandatory” that made me surly… as I feel quite certain Seigi (and the rest of us) already know what this means.

As a potential student, I like to see that someone is certified. It at least says that the person has stuck to something long enough to become certified and has enough interest to attend seminars, take tests, pay dues, etc. It illustrates a level of commitment.

That’s not to say the certified teacher is any better then a great rider who happens to teach but it does say that the person considers teaching important enough to become certified.

Ok, Adamantane (I even got your name right this time :-)) - you can get all worked up over the legal aspects of something that doesn’t even exist, but you can’t envision or won’t condone a “system” (for lack of a better word that could get misconstrued again) that educates and certifies its teachers to ensure quality instruction?

I almost get the feeling that some folks are already paralyzed by testing fear that they will so go out of their way to knock down something that is merely in its infancy. I read so many posts here about how the Europeans try to dominate the horse industry in the US - people are up in arms about it. Yet here is a chance to start leveling the playing field a bit and the reaction is anything but positive. Go figure!

There will always be folks that will feel threatened when asked to prove their qualifications, but that doesn’t mean we should eliminate the need for said proof. Is it better to protect the few instructors that are good but don’t test well, or should we be looking out for all the young talent that is emerging and doesn’t have the financial wherewithall nor technical know-how to go from instructor to instructor in order to find the “right” one?

Your turn…

“and we also have states already setting in motion laws where you have to be licensed to teach” by Velvet.

“I happen to agree with Velvet that mandatory certification is only a matter of time.” by seigi b.

I’m not sure why anyone thought there were responses being misconstrued.

The problem here is with a voluntary system versus a forced system.

In the scenario of forced licensing I will always fall wholeheartedly with the former, a voluntary system.

Those who think otherwise, I again strongly urge you to study up on the affects of what you are proposing.

The effects of what is proposed will include better overall instructions because it will force people to study what they plan to teach.

Making it sound like Big Brother will be watching over us is overly dramatic in my opinion. The effects of NOT having licensure have been obvious to me in all my time with horses in this country - lots and lots of incompetent people that can call themselves “trainer” and take money from unsuspecting citizens. And that is the system you prefer?

Nope. Not if they’re getting their certification through ARIA. Just make the video, write the essay, get the paper. No study required. :stuck_out_tongue:

Making it sound like Big Brother will be watching over us is overly dramatic in my opinion. The effects of NOT having licensure have been obvious to me in all my time with horses in this country - lots and lots of incompetent people that can call themselves “trainer” and take money from unsuspecting citizens. And that is the system you prefer?

And lots and lots of incompetent European instructors who had to be certified in their country just to horse show, are coming here and making money from the unsuspecting American public, and they do have a species of certification. Doesn’t stop them from being $h!tty instructors, any more than mandatory certification here will eliminate $h!tty American instructors. And that is the system that you apparently prefer. :winkgrin:

[QUOTE=ESG;2194330]
As am I, to be who I am. How lucky we are, eh? :cool:

Would you mind returning to the discussion now? I’d really like answers to my questions.[/QUOTE]

No you wouldn’t, ESG. What you want is fodder.

Tell me, on the web site you have listed on your posts, is that you riding in the photographs?

ESG - I will take one of those sh&%&$y European Bereiters anytime before I take the American “trainer” that has no basic understanding and certainly no schooling in what they attempt to teach.

You obviously have no idea what it takes to become a Bereiter. It consists of an apprenticeship for three years where you ride, ride, ride, clean, muck, clean and go to school. There is a requirement for a silver “Reitabzeichen” (medal) that you can obtain by winning so many recognized shows at 2nd level, before they will accept you for this education. You obtain your Bereiter title by finishing with a 6-week long testing that includes riding (dressage and jumping) as well as theory, and not everybody passes.

So, with the Bereiter title I know that the person has a certain amount of knowledge and had to be able to ride credibly at 2nd level to begin with, and probably at 4th level by the time they finished their training. How many sh&%*#y American trainers do you know that can ride at that level? Or know half of the anatomy of a horse??

Have you been tested at 4th level? Pray tell…

And SapeloApp - yes, that would be our ESG standing in the irons!! :slight_smile:

No, SapeloApp - I want answers to the questions I asked. You seem hesitant to supply them. So be it.

And yes, that’s me. Where are your photos?

siegi, I am not your ESG. :stuck_out_tongue:

Ah! Thanks, Siegi.

I keep thinking on this idea that mandatory certification (if it ever comes to that) somehow equates to Big Brother. That’s right along the lines of thinking that certification of paramedics (required in all 50 states of the US) means that no momma can put a Bandaid on their child, or that because cosmetologists are licensed/certified no one can help anyone else do up their hair or their nails. And of course, there should be no such thing as “licensed drivers” because that’s merely government infringing on our rights to zip along the highways and byways of this land without the hassle of showing some level of proficiency.

Then again, I remember being back in my 20’s (I know, that was a VERY long time ago! LOL) and having similar sweeping ideals as we’ve seen in this thread. As I grew older, the world of black-and-white developed a lot of shades of gray as my comprehension became more encompassing, my understanding deeper. It wasn’t always a pleasant evolution as some areas required great amounts of kicking and screaming to get me to wrap my brain around some concepts.

And that’s one of the things I really like about being “older”… I can more readily see those things that aren’t worth my time and move on. It just doesn’t tie my ego up in knots. I don’t just appreciate Maxine, I identify with her! LOL

I see - so every $h!tty European trainer that comes over here has been through your certification and still sucks? Doesn’t speak well of the program, does it? :stuck_out_tongue:

You obviously have no idea what it takes to become a Bereiter. It consists of an apprenticeship for three years where you ride, ride, ride, clean, muck, clean and go to school. There is a requirement for a silver “Reitabzeichen” (medal) that you can obtain by winning so many recognized shows at 2nd level, before they will accept you for this education. You obtain your Bereiter title by finishing with a 6-week long testing that includes riding (dressage and jumping) as well as theory, and not everybody passes.

Nice. So how do you explain the crappy Europeans with the Bereiter certification? :confused:

So, with the Bereiter title I know that the person has a certain amount of knowledge and had to be able to ride credibly at 2nd level to begin with, and probably at 4th level by the time they finished their training. How many sh&%*#y American trainers do you know that can ride at that level? Or know half of the anatomy of a horse??

A lot, sorry to say. Some that espouse the “crank and spank” method of training that a lot of European sales barns employ to get foolish Americans to buy their culls. :wink:

Have you been tested at 4th level? Pray tell…

No. Have you?