http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/missing-link-cancellation-of-the-croker-cup-class-at-the-rds-is-big-blow-34893388.html
http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10941170&blood=10"a=
Ok, Iâll bite. The winner of last yearâs stallion class was an American bred tb. (So obviously, he was good enough then). No explanation is given as o why the class was cancelled, but I would guess that entries may be down, and show management decided to pull the class. Not sure how that reflects poorly on AMERICAN tbâs.
[QUOTE=Timex;8872685]
Ok, Iâll bite. The winner of last yearâs stallion class was an American bred tb. (So obviously, he was good enough then). No explanation is given as o why the class was cancelled, but I would guess that entries may be down, and show management decided to pull the class. Not sure how that reflects poorly on AMERICAN tbâs.[/QUOTE]
The article is clear about why the class was cancelled, at least in one personâs opinion - low entries, as you said:
âI am so disappointed that the class has gone, but to be honest there is little incentive for people given the high costs of actually getting there and the fact there is no prize-money,â said John Varley, owner of Elusive Emir.
⊠âIn my opinion an entire review needs to be done to get the class back to the RDS. If they could get a sponsor to come on board and have prize-money it would encourage owners again. Had we known in time that there were so few entries I would have definitely returned to support it again,â he said.
Sounds like Elles either misunderstood something, has inside info on a nefarious RDS plot to oust TB stallions, or is getting worked up over nothing - or maybe her title meant something different altogether & she can clarify.
The way I read it was just that entries were down.
As an aside, it is one of my pet peeves to see our breed referred to a âAmerican Thoroughbredâ. They are Thoroughbreds. Period.
I had this in my mind:
http://www.sport-horse-breeder.com/thoroughbred.html
and the American Thoroughbred was barely tolerated: âsprint onlyâ, âbuilt downhillâ, ânot proper saddle-horse conformationâ were comments I heard continually in the 1990s, the Thoroughbred especially the American Thoroughbred was treated like something that smelled bad.
It has been a long time since we had a good old TB/WB fight over here, and I bite the bait evrytime! But I think the whole RDS situation has nothing to do with anyoneâs opinion on the use of TB in sporthorse breeding, even less with the quality of the american bred TB, as it is a purely Irish issue. As metionned previously, It has more to do with the lack of participation from the stallion owners. Ireland is one of the breeding regions where the TB is still used with the most consistensy in sport horse breeding. In other breeding regions, such as France, Germany or the Netherlands, TB influx has been traditionnaly added on the top, by breeding good foundation mares with TB stallions. In Ireland however, they produce a lot of their good eventing horses by breeding with TB mares, or TB based damelines, with european or Irish stallions. TB mares are still used regularly and TB stallions are not seen, as in other regions, as the only way to add TB into a breeding program. With the TB impact still very present in Irish breeding, their maine concern was put more on preserving their good Irish lines, and the purebred Irish Draught, to cross with those TB. The traditional Irish Draught, who built Irelands reputation as a producer of sport horses, is getting rare, and a big effort was put by great horse people to preserve those great lines, and the traditionnal Irish horse. I think that this may explain more the loss of interest of the TB stallion classes at RDS thant any predjudice they may have.
[QUOTE=Fred;8872825]
The way I read it was just that entries were down.
As an aside, it is one of my pet peeves to see our breed referred to a âAmerican Thoroughbredâ. They are Thoroughbreds. Period.[/QUOTE]
Actually, there is a difference between American and many European bred TBs. A lot of European ones jump and the focus isnât on the gate speed as much. Itâs what often makes many of them better for eventing. (Many more of them.) The American TB is now also headed in the direction of hot house flowers that can only run on protective footing.
I love TBs, but you can see a difference between the US and other countries breeding programs.
[QUOTE=Velvet;8873601]
Actually, there is a difference between American and many European bred TBs. A lot of European ones jump and the focus isnât on the gate speed as much. Itâs what often makes many of them better for eventing. (Many more of them.) The American TB is now also headed in the direction of hot house flowers that can only run on protective footing.
I love TBs, but you can see a difference between the US and other countries breeding programs.[/QUOTE]
This assessment not applicable to Fred (equine version) of course 
[QUOTE=Cumano;8873581]
It has been a long time since we had a good old TB/WB fight over here, and I bite the bait evrytime! But I think the whole RDS situation has nothing to do with anyoneâs opinion on the use of TB in sporthorse breeding, even less with the quality of the american bred TB, as it is a purely Irish issue. As metionned previously, It has more to do with the lack of participation from the stallion owners. Ireland is one of the breeding regions where the TB is still used with the most consistensy in sport horse breeding. In other breeding regions, such as France, Germany or the Netherlands, TB influx has been traditionnaly added on the top, by breeding good foundation mares with TB stallions. In Ireland however, they produce a lot of their good eventing horses by breeding with TB mares, or TB based damelines, with european or Irish stallions. TB mares are still used regularly and TB stallions are not seen, as in other regions, as the only way to add TB into a breeding program. With the TB impact still very present in Irish breeding, their maine concern was put more on preserving their good Irish lines, and the purebred Irish Draught, to cross with those TB. The traditional Irish Draught, who built Irelands reputation as a producer of sport horses, is getting rare, and a big effort was put by great horse people to preserve those great lines, and the traditionnal Irish horse. I think that this may explain more the loss of interest of the TB stallion classes at RDS thant any predjudice they may have.[/QUOTE]
No itâs just taking place in the dressage forum at present haha in more than one thread.
I was told yesterday by an Irish stallion owner that it is very hard these days to stand stallions, especially new ones, in Ireland because the mare owners are importing frozen jumper semen from Europe.
Iâm surprised that the RDS couldnât get sponsorship from the Aga Khan or the Maktoums.
Of course Ireland is in Europe so it shouldnât be that big of a surprise.
The TB breeding farms here have justly bred them to be runners. This is what they do.
The other breeders here are trying to make sporthorses out of these runners. Failure ensuesâŠ
This is not about using the TB for sport or not. This is about if there is a difference or not between American Thoroughbreds and European TBâs.
This is what I found striking:
Last year when he won the phone never stopped ringing and he covered well over 80 mares this year. On top of that we had offers to buy him from people in Germany and Holland.
I think there IS a bias in Europe with regard to the American Thoroughbreds within sport horse circles but I doubt if that is based on anything solid.
There is a possible difference in type, based on the preference for racing surface and distance. European racing is largely on turf, and frequently at a mile or more. US racing is most often on dirt, and many common races a mile or less. This could produce the notion that âAmerican bredâ horses are all dirt sprinter types with downhill chunky bodies. But that isnât true. There is a lot of variation, on both sides of the pond, but the bloodlines are global. War Front is in high demand both here and Europe. Galileo, sire of this yearâs top 3 Arc finishers, is by American-bred Sadlers Wells (by Canadian bred Northern Dancer). Sadlers Wells is also pretty influential in jump racing.
Thoroughbred breeding is a big melting pot worldwide. Stallions are shuttled north to south. Mares are sold overseas or shipped internationally to breed. You have to judge the individual in front of you, not what country he came from.
[QUOTE=Elles;8874512]
This is what I found striking:
Last year when he won the phone never stopped ringing and he covered well over 80 mares this year. On top of that we had offers to buy him from people in Germany and Holland.
I think there IS a bias in Europe with regard to the American Thoroughbreds within sport horse circles but I doubt if that is based on anything solid.[/QUOTE]
80 mares bred is quite a lot, either for a TB stallion or a WB stallion. As he is a US bred TB, he is popular with breeders and he has also received interest from european buyers, I am not sure how you perceive a bias against the american TB in that article. Maybe I donât get your point, but I think this particuliar TB stallion can be considered a succesfull one (on a commercial basis).
I am of course not getting that from that article but from other sources. That is why I found what happened in Ireland striking because it says something different.
Kathleen Kirsan wrote a book about the great stallion Lexington being an incredible distance horse and also a very sound horse. His biggest influence was in North America.
I havenât been on here in ages⊠probably years⊠Just logged on and to my relief I see this thread.
Nope⊠not missing anything⊠carry on!! 
Kathleen Kirsan wrote a book about the great stallion Lexington being an incredible distance horse and also a very sound horse. His biggest influence was in North America.
Lexington was a horse who lived almost 200 years ago. TB and WB have evolved since.
Donât get me wrong, this tread has everithing needed to turn into the memorable, good old fashion brawl everyone is hoping for! It has the potential to turn WB people against TB people, Europeans against americans, old school TB afficionado against modern breeding TB enthusiasts, race people against sport horse peopleâŠeverything is their. I think no one knows exactly what we are expected to argue onâŠ
[QUOTE=Bayhawk;8874246]
The TB breeding farms here have justly bred them to be runners. This is what they do.
The other breeders here are trying to make sporthorses out of these runners. Failure ensuesâŠ[/QUOTE]
Ironic, because almost all of the TBs used in sport horse breeding today are directly from or descend from American running lines⊠Elusive Emir is one of them.
Sea Accounts
Sea Lion
A Fine Romance (CAN)
Saddlers Wells
Coconut Grove
Salute The Truth
Triple Twist
Roven
Innkeeper
Comet Shine
That was just off of the top of my head and by no means exhaustiveâŠ
I have to say that the breeders who are actively trying to breed sport TBs are doing quite well given the market, itâs just that they (the sport bred TBs) are bred in much, much smaller numbers than the commercial WB chain and yet still, seem to pop up often in sport. The breeders that have AIMED for the sport-horse type have done quite well, thank you.
The problem is that it is EXPENSIVE to breed, raise, and market a stallion and many people in the US/America do not have that resource, or would rather back it with a WB that would command more money.
I have nothing to add re: TB vs WB, just wanted to clear up that there are American TBs out there that are making a positive impact on sport-horse lines.
