Amino acids, BCAAs, DMG?

[IPEsq]

I’ll try to do a short-ish recap on my horse: Cervical arthritis which appears to be maintained, had a long layup for an injury that appears now to be a non-issue, and coming back from that he had a lot of problems and was NQR with behavior tanking about a year ago. Wound up with severly tight back muscles, back pain, SI pain, is frequently sore in most of the SI/glute/lumbar area acupuncture points, had a lot of trouble under saddle.

We’ve finally figured out a treatment and exercise program that has been helping him over the past couple of months. His back throughout the thoracic and lumbar spine is doing a ton better. Still sore in the hind end and SI area. Will undergo more treatments at the hospital in a few weeks.

There’s been a question that he’s a PSSM-type horse. Because of the large boarding barn situation, his diet is controlled except for his grass hay, which of course is most of his diet. I could start testing, but we go through a lot of batches. Even though it’s from the same farm, who knows. I could also get a steamer if it came to that. Soaking is not a good option in this area (too hot or too cold). He otherwise has a low NSC diet with added fats, magnesium, and vitamin E and gets a good amount of lysine from 3 flakes of 3rd cutting alfalfa.

He’s never been easy to put muscle on, has a propensity for body soreness and being sensitive to touch. He’s doing better on the brushing/handling side of things now. He’s been growing since I’ve had him—hopefully slowing down there now…just turned 7. He’s also kind of a big baby and doesn’t have the best mind for handling any kind of discomfort, even the exercise-induced discomfort that is well within the range of normal for an athlete, aka a horse with a job. However, if he doesn’t have a job, he goes bonkers.

He’d been on Tri Amino or Nutramino for the majority of the past 2 1/2 years. I generally like it for him. I’m out right now and am thinking of changing up his supplements / cutting some things out. He had a chiro/acupuncture session today. He’s holding chiropractically very well now. Still pretty sore in the hind end for acupuncture and had a bit of a panic before he got a release. We also do his neck as well with acupuncture and microcurrent for pain management for the arthritis, which he loves.

The chiro vet suggested maybe something a little more targeted for muscle issues than the amino acids. Suggested BCAAs and/or DMG. Anyone have any thoughts/experiences? DMG seems pretty inexpensive from Smartpak. I could get BCAAs from Platinum ($$$). Some time ago (before the layup), I did a trial of the SmartMuscle Recovery, and I didn’t notice any changes with him.

[Goforward]

I tried DMG for my horse and found itmade no difference at all.

[DoubleDown]

DMG worked well for my draft cross who has been PSSM symptomatic in the past, but with DMG and diet change it was fixed. She also does well on the Purina Supersport.

[IPEsq]

Thanks for the input. It seems like a probably won’t hurt, might help kind of thing. Maybe I’ll get some small tubs Tri Amino and DMG from Smartpak before ordering a new custom HorseTech mix. He’s been off his old Nutramino + hoof + Mg mix now a few weeks while I test out the MagRestore, and I don’t think that’s helping him, so I need to get him back on some extra aminos asap in some form.

[SCI]

I feed Purina Super Sport. It is a protein (40%)/amino acid supplement that has BCAAs. My horse has been on it for about 8 weeks now and I have noticed an improvement in his topline. He is a hard keeper that gets a high fat/low NSC diet. He is also in the process of going through a rehab program for nerve pain in his back. The vet suggested this supplement.

[IPEsq]

I just went through a whole elimination diet last winter where I wound up taking him off of soy protein concentrates, so I don’t think the Purina Super Sport is going to work for him.

[mpsbarnmanager]

@IPEsq

I’ll try to do a short-ish recap on my horse: Cervical arthritis which appears to be maintained, had a long layup for an injury that appears now to be a non-issue, and coming back from that he had a lot of problems and was NQR with behavior tanking about a year ago. Wound up with severly tight back muscles, back pain, SI pain, is frequently sore in most of the SI/glute/lumbar area acupuncture points, had a lot of trouble under saddle.

We’ve finally figured out a treatment and exercise program that has been helping him over the past couple of months. His back throughout the thoracic and lumbar spine is doing a ton better. Still sore in the hind end and SI area. Will undergo more treatments at the hospital in a few weeks.

There’s been a question that he’s a PSSM-type horse. Because of the large boarding barn situation, his diet is controlled except for his grass hay, which of course is most of his diet. I could start testing, but we go through a lot of batches. Even though it’s from the same farm, who knows. I could also get a steamer if it came to that. Soaking is not a good option in this area (too hot or too cold). He otherwise has a low NSC diet with added fats, magnesium, and vitamin E and gets a good amount of lysine from 3 flakes of 3rd cutting alfalfa.

He’s never been easy to put muscle on, has a propensity for body soreness and being sensitive to touch. He’s doing better on the brushing/handling side of things now. He’s been growing since I’ve had him—hopefully slowing down there now…just turned 7. He’s also kind of a big baby and doesn’t have the best mind for handling any kind of discomfort, even the exercise-induced discomfort that is well within the range of normal for an athlete, aka a horse with a job. However, if he doesn’t have a job, he goes bonkers.

He’d been on Tri Amino or Nutramino for the majority of the past 2 1/2 years. I generally like it for him. I’m out right now and am thinking of changing up his supplements / cutting some things out. He had a chiro/acupuncture session today. He’s holding chiropractically very well now. Still pretty sore in the hind end for acupuncture and had a bit of a panic before he got a release. We also do his neck as well with acupuncture and microcurrent for pain management for the arthritis, which he loves.

The chiro vet suggested maybe something a little more targeted for muscle issues than the amino acids. Suggested BCAAs and/or DMG. Anyone have any thoughts/experiences? DMG seems pretty inexpensive from Smartpak. I could get BCAAs from Platinum ($$$). Some time ago (before the layup), I did a trial of the SmartMuscle Recovery, and I didn’t notice any changes with him.

I could have written this post! My 4 yr old has kissing spines and we’ve done all this too. My horse is on smartpak muscle mass and it has helped a lot. Also starting him on quiessence since I have heard that may help his tight muscles.

[IPEsq]

Anyone used the BCAAs from UltraCruz?

[alteringwego]

I didn’t find that DMG made any difference. Did find that Equinity helped a lot. Haven’t tried Triamino but tempted due to price.

[JB]

Keep in mind that if this is PSSM 2 or 3, a higher protein diet is recommended, and that might mean significantly more protein than you’re feeding, so even doubling the T-A/NA, or just adding another 1-2 servings of either Pure Lysine or L-Lysine (2 different products, both straight lysine) might help.

[bugsynskeeter]

@IPEsq

Anyone used the BCAAs from UltraCruz?

Its a brand new product. I’ve sent some out to trainers for samples, but no response yet. PM me if you decide to order.

[IPEsq]

@JB

Keep in mind that if this is PSSM 2 or 3, a higher protein diet is recommended, and that might mean significantly more protein than you’re feeding, so even doubling the T-A/NA, or just adding another 1-2 servings of either Pure Lysine or L-Lysine (2 different products, both straight lysine) might help.

He gets a decent amount of lysine I think from alfalfa. He typically gets 3 big-ish flakes a day (sometimes the guys feed him 2 small flakes if that particular bale’s flakes are kind of skimpy)…so I’d estimate at approx 4-5lbs per flake. All I know is that it tests at over 20% protein, but I don’t know the breakdown of that or how much he absorbs. He also gets a little bit of a variety of aminos from Platinum Performance wellness formula and a little bit from 2.5 to 3-ish pounds of TC Senior (total daily) that he gets everything mixed into.

I just got the DMG and Tri Amino yesterday. I can try double dosing the TA if you think that could make a difference. Since he’s basically been on a single scoop’s worth now off and on for over 2 years (I took him off when he was eating a high protein RB during layup), it would be a change worth considering. I haven’t ordered BCAAs yet due to cost, and I’d like to give the DMG some time to see if there are any changes.

He’s been really spooky lately and muscle sore in his neck and near the SI, so I am hoping that next week’s injections get us back on track.

I’ve wound up taking our ridden work back to 99% walk because he’s getting sour again too. But I make him walk correctly to the best of my ability, use the Equicore sometimes, etc. His lateral movements at the walk are getting really good in terms of good foot placement and balance, although they are really slow…he can’t quite seem to march and do them yet. I read in a lameness textbook that serpentines and light lateral work can be good for SI rehab. At the least, it keeps his brain somewhat engaged when we are walking for an hour. I am having to do most of his forward work on the longe line. His hip tucks and belly lift exercises are getting much easier for him to do. Perhaps doubling the TA at least during his first couple recovery weeks after injections would help?

[JB]

@IPEsq

Since he’s basically been on a single scoop’s worth now off and on for over 2 years (I took him off when he was eating a high protein RB during layup), it would be a change worth considering.

The lower feeding rate of a ration balancer means you’re only feeding roughly the amount of protein/AAs in most 4-5lb servings of regular feed, and a horse who needs extra protein/AAs still needs more. Recovering from injuries also requires more protein, more similar to that same horse in moderate work.

Perhaps doubling the TA at least during his first couple recovery weeks after injections would help?

I do think it’s worth trying. Or at least adding the straight lysine do that. The 2 products I listed above have a serving/scoop of, IIRC, 6gm and 7gm, so you could add 1-2 scoops of either of those

[IPEsq]

@JB

The lower feeding rate of a ration balancer means you’re only feeding roughly the amount of protein/AAs in most 4-5lb servings of regular feed, and a horse who needs extra protein/AAs still needs more. Recovering from injuries also requires more protein, more similar to that same horse in moderate work.

Well, that time has long passed, so it’s moot now :). At that time, no one was thinking he might have a PSSM type. He did continue to get alfalfa during his layup.

[JB]

@IPEsq

Well, that time has long passed, so it’s moot now :). At that time, no one was thinking he might have a PSSM type. He did continue to get alfalfa during his layup.

Right, but, it is more information to decide how to feed him now, and going forward