Ammy vs Pro Q (spinoff of "Going Pro" thread)

[hollynanne]

I talk all the time about the husband’s riding career, because he’s the one that does all the showing. I’m just the underpaid staff.

Since he’s back in the H/J world, we have been discussing whether he should stay an Ammy or become a Pro. “Technically,” he has not violated any Ammy rules, but I don’t want to get caught in the spiderweb of Ammy vs Pro.

Here’s the background:
We met in college in 2000. He was doing some breaking horses, riding difficult horses, working in Colorado leading trail rides through Estes Park. He then spent a summer as a working student at a large Dressage Farm, with a little training on the side (being paid to teach a client’s colt to lead, tie, stand politely, etc). There was no showing except IHSA from 1999 to 2005.

Then came the Navy. He started showing low/high ch/ad jumpers with our trainer in Jacksonville. No money at that time changed hands. We paid for his rides on our trainer’s mare, show fees, etc.

We moved to Washington several years later. Two deployments and some training in there. The last training being 2011. Deployment in 2012 to the middle east and then the move to Florida.

We have our own farm, our own two Tbs. No lessons have been done (except to the tiny and to me, but we don’t count ). We’ve talked about him giving lessons and just giving up his Ammy status, but I know he’s valuable as an Ammy that can ride.

So, I guess my question is. Is he still an Ammy, allowed to compete in A/O and A/As? Should he hand in his Amateur card and forfeit the ability to do A/Os?

According to USEF, if they aren’t training/taking money for 6 months, then they can become and Amateur again. I just don’t want to get into “that situation” at a show, KWIM?

Help, rules gurus, help!

p.s.- other than the occasional lesson or training rides, he has no intention of formally training full-time. Between his Navy career, his master’s classes, our own horses and oh yeah, being a dad. There is nothing “full time” in our house.

[Halt_Near_X]

He is not an ammy because of this:

@hollynanne;7238678

He was doing some breaking horses, riding difficult horses, working in Colorado leading trail rides through Estes Park. He then spent a summer as a working student at a large Dressage Farm, with a little training on the side (being paid to teach a client’s colt to lead, tie, stand politely, etc).

Even if he wasn’t a USEF member at the time, they still make him a professional now.

However, it sounds like enough time has passed that he can reinstate his amateur status easily.

Think of the reinstatement as insurance for him. It’s his acknowledgement that yes, he was engaged in professional activities at one point in time. But he sat out his time and followed all the processes to reinstate correctly, so if someone tries to protest him for those activities they won’t have a leg to stand on.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=hollynanne;7238678]
I talk all the time about the husband’s riding career, because he’s the one that does all the showing. I’m just the underpaid staff.

Since he’s back in the H/J world, we have been discussing whether he should stay an Ammy or become a Pro. “Technically,” he has not violated any Ammy rules, but I don’t want to get caught in the spiderweb of Ammy vs Pro.

Here’s the background:
We met in college in 2000. He was doing some breaking horses, riding difficult horses, working in Colorado leading trail rides through Estes Park. He then spent a summer as a working student at a large Dressage Farm, with a little training on the side (being paid to teach a client’s colt to lead, tie, stand politely, etc). There was no showing except IHSA from 1999 to 2005.

Then came the Navy. He started showing low/high ch/ad jumpers with our trainer in Jacksonville. No money at that time changed hands. We paid for his rides on our trainer’s mare, show fees, etc.

We moved to Washington several years later. Two deployments and some training in there. The last training being 2011. Deployment in 2012 to the middle east and then the move to Florida.

We have our own farm, our own two Tbs. No lessons have been done (except to the tiny and to me, but we don’t count ). We’ve talked about him giving lessons and just giving up his Ammy status, but I know he’s valuable as an Ammy that can ride.

So, I guess my question is. Is he still an Ammy, allowed to compete in A/O and A/As? Should he hand in his Amateur card and forfeit the ability to do A/Os?

According to USEF, if they aren’t training/taking money for 6 months, then they can become and Amateur again. I just don’t want to get into “that situation” at a show, KWIM?

Help, rules gurus, help!

p.s.- other than the occasional lesson or training rides, he has no intention of formally training full-time. Between his Navy career, his master’s classes, our own horses and oh yeah, being a dad. There is nothing “full time” in our house.[/QUOTE]

If he taught tiny ones, it still counts. Just because YOU don’t think so, by the rules - yes he’s a pro. I think you know this because you say “technically”. Don’t skirt the rules. Declare pro and be dove with it.

[Halt_Near_X]

[QUOTE=hollynanne;7238678]
p.s.- other than the occasional lesson or training rides, he has no intention of formally training full-time. Between his Navy career, his master’s classes, our own horses and oh yeah, being a dad. There is nothing “full time” in our house.[/QUOTE]

Also, it doesn’t matter if he’s doing lessons/training rides full time or not. If he gets paid for one lesson/training ride, his amateur status is gone and he has to sit out the full year, reinstate, etc. And it is a year, not six months.

[PNWjumper]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;7238704]
If he taught tiny ones, it still counts. Just because YOU don’t think so, by the rules - yes he’s a pro. I think you know this because you say “technically”. Don’t skirt the rules. Declare pro and be dove with it.[/QUOTE]

Unless I’m reading her post incorrectly, “the tiny ones” you refer to is really “the tiny one” that he “owns” (meaning his own daughter). No violation there.

I agree with Halt Near X that reinstatement would be the way to go.

But my own 2 cents is that there’s no reason to go pro unless you’re really trying to set up a full blown training program. Staying amateur allows you to take advantage of all of the classes at shows. So if you don’t rely on and need money from training, then there’s no advantage to being a pro. Want to help out friends? Go for it, just don’t take any money from them. I have a whole network of ammy friends who help each other (and me and vice versa) at shows.

Also, it can be a big advantage to be an ammy at shows where they restrict the weekend classes to amateurs (not typically a huge issue up here, but something I saw down in Sonoma this year).

[Alter_nativ3]

I think by “Tiny” she means their own children

[jumpsnake]

I think by the ‘tiny’, OP meant THEIR child, not a child coming in for lessons. I don’t think you are a pro if you teach your own family.

[Pennywell_Bay]

[QUOTE=jumpsnake;7238787]
I think by the ‘tiny’, OP meant THEIR child, not a child coming in for lessons. I don’t think you are a pro if you teach your own family.[/QUOTE]

Got it. Comprehension was not my suit today. I still think she needs to declare (he needs) pro due to the training.

[hollynanne]

He has done no training or lessons (and yes “the tiny ones” would be our daughter (5) and son (7)-we own them, like it or not ) in over two years. I will look into the reinstatement of his amateur status. That makes sense.

Thanks guys! I knew you’d know!
:yes:

[rustbreeches]

Nothing to add to the question, but saw your location and am incredibly jealous. You have the Milton Bakery at your doorstep!

[hollynanne]

[QUOTE=rustbreeches;7238978]
Nothing to add to the question, but saw your location and am incredibly jealous. You have the Milton Bakery at your doorstep![/QUOTE]
Haha! Yes, we do! I ordered the tiny one’s birthday cake this past summer from there. Pink and purple flowers with chocolate cake and strawberry filling… soooo goooooodddd…
(almost makes it worth all the crazies around here in “lower Alabama”)

[Janet]

Here is the process for reinstatement of amateur status

9. A professional continues to be such until he/she has recieved amateur status by
   a vote of the Hearing Committee. Any professional who wishes to be reclassified
   as an amateur on the grounds that he/she has not engaged in the activities whichmade
   him/her a professional within the last twelve months must notify the Federation
   in writing.
   a. Such person shall submit to the Hearing Committee an amateur reclassifica
   tion request which is supported by:
10. A notarized letter signed by him/her outling the horse related activites (using
    specific dates) which made said person a professional and outling the activities
    performed within the twelve month period (or longer) since professional activities
    have ceased,
11. Two or more notarized letters from any Senior Active Federation members
    stating the relationship with the applicant and outling the applicants activities
    for the one year period preceding such written notification advising and testifying
    that the applicant has not engaged in any activities which would make
    him/her a professional as outlined in GR1306 during that period,
12. A processing fee of $50,
13. Sign and declare amateur status on a current USEF membership application.
    The burden of proof of proving amateur status is on the applicant. The
    Hearing Committee may call for and/or consider any and all further evidence
    and facts which it deems pertinent. The decision of the Hearing Committee on
    the reclassification request shall be final.
    b. Any changes of status from professional to amateur, or vise versa, will be published
    on the Federation’s website.