Analysis of Voltaire and Quidam foals

[EquipeMK]

Hi everyone,

I’m in the process of choosing my next showjumper (although I like to do some dressage too) and while doing some research on the web I came accross your forum. I was impressed by the amount of expertise you all had on the various great breeding lines, so I thought I’d pose you a question… Hope you’ll enjoy taking the time to give me some guidance.

I’m currently looking at three young horses (3-4 years) and I would like him/her to compete at 1,20 /1,30m easily as I am no professional rider.

I’d like some insight into possible outcomes based on their parents, if possible, since they are still so young. I’m thinking temperament, willingnes to cooperate/learn, ease to ride. The folks I asked around here are either friends or competitors of the breeders so I’m not sure how unbiased their opinion is… So, enough talking, here they are:

3yr old colt (1,59m ~ 15,3hh): Voltaire x CS Xaia (IA) x Quantum (Quidam de Revel x Ulla V)
4yr old filly (1,62m ~ 16hh): Quantum do Feroleto (Quantum x No Limit x Caretino) x Calypsa 7 (Carter Dor x Geniale x Garibaldi II)
4yr old filly (1,72m ~ 17hh): Douglas (Darco x Fiona x Capitol I) x Zonnebloem VDL x Chin Chin

Thanks in advance for any insights!

Ana

[EquipeMK]

ps. forgot to say they all have good morphology, move very well and jump unridden beautifully. X-rays will be analysed before buying too and they are all in the same price range.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Have any of the contenders been started under saddle at all? Have you met them in person–what did you think?

What do you know about the dams? Did they jump? How are their other offspring doing?

Lots of nice names in your list.

[horsechick]

I am NO expert at jumper lines, but the Douglas filly sounds divine! Darco and ChinChin? Yes please

[mikali]

I think I found two of the pedigrees:
Douglas http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/pedigree/473525
Quantum do Feroleto http://www.horsetelex.nl/horses/pedigree/565001

I am a little biased towards KWPN breeding, but my vote is for the Douglas mare based on paper alone.

[Bayhawk]

You should make sure the mother of the Voltaire was very brave. he was known to be a chicken sometimes and way too careful. You should make sure the Quidam’s have good feet and aren’t hot as hell and with tough mouths.

Quantum has always been viewed as a specialists sire. Meaning a professional’s ride for top level sport.

A Darco / Capitol son could throw huge and cold but could have massive scope.

If you are only looking to jump 1.20 - 1.30meter , why don’t you look here for a good minded Cassini or Contender bred horse for example. Seems to me you are shopping bloodlines for pro rides when you aren’t a pro ?

hope that helps.

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

While also being a KWPN breeder essentially, the Douglas x Chin Chin seems to be a bit lacking in blood for my taste. I would also carefully assess rideability in the young ones with Quantum as he can throw hot and a pro’s ride.

Best of luck with your choice and do keep us posted!

Added - seems Bayhawk and I posted simultaneously- dare I say-great minds think alike!

[wigum]

douglas

Douglas was produced in Ireland and stood here for a long time before moving back to holland.

He was a big horse very much in the darco stamp. He was more blood than you would expect but angry. He was a tricky ride himself but he had an abundance of scope and tends to pass it on.

having seen quite a few of his youngstock they generally have a great jump, they often ride with more blood than you would expect from looking at them, the type can vary between offspring that look very much like him or the other type where he was used on very blood mares where the type is smaller & prettier. the general trend as young horses being broken were for angry, slightly stubborn horses (especially if the dams were not nice and easy), but then i have seen a few douglas youngsters who were absolute angels to do everything with.

hope that’s of some help to you, examine the horse himself, examine the dam he came from check out siblings if there are any to get a better picture of what you might get.

[horsechick]

wigum, thanks for the excellent first hand knowledge…there is nothing better than seeing horses in the flesh to assess them!

[EquipeMK]

Thank you!

First of all, thank you everyone, for your time! I’ll try to answer all posts together to facilitate reading, hope i don’t miss out on anyone… If you’d like to see the foals, check out these links:

Quantum filly: Vendome - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ve6TOWRYlMo
Voltaire colt: Willy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNyJx4e1HEA
Douglas filly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kzqeeiFMVQ&

Only the Douglas filly is jumping under saddle. But a poor rider on the video, so didn’t help her much. I’m going to see her this weekend and maybe try her out. I am afraid she will be too much for me as she’s big! So, big and angry may not be a good idea… I think her dam is on the farm, so I’m hoping to get a look at her and find out whether she was ever ridden or jumped and see what she’s like. Probably not small, as the filly is large and maybe heavy, can’t tell on the video.

The other two are only jumping unridden. I’ve seen both in person and they show better than in these videos.

The Quantum mare does love to jump and seems to attack the obstacles! Which doesn’t show on the video. I’ve seen her dam, very heavy, which is maybe why the breeder used Quantum? But I’ve also talked to her rider, a professional which used to jump 1,40-1,45m with her. Didn’t make any further and got hurt so went to breeding. But he did say that despite her largeness (to the sides, not up! she is about 1,70m), she’s foward going and brave. Large hoofs, but the filly has small ones as you can see on the video. The filly is a bit too thick necked and I think skinny legs for her weight… but I like the way she likes to jump. And I did ride her a little, but she’s only just been broken, so can’t say much. Very confortable tough, and willing. I guess I better find out about other offsprings from Quantum do Feroleto, to see if he’s passing on Quantum’s traits.

The Voltaire colt I do not know his dam. She was not at the farm. But I can ask more. He’ll not be too tall, which could be a good thing for me. But he’s not yet three and that brings me the problem of keeping him until he can be ridden for a whole year… I’m trying to see if the breeder will board him for me for a reasonable price… And he is a colt, I like mares more. Overall he’s quiet, tackles the jumps without problem or fear, but does not shine, so to speak. But then again, he’s younger and one year can make a lot of difference. Not broken yet, so no riding… would be more of a blind buy. But I must say there is something about him that I like. And he’s the breeder’s choice for me amongst her foals that are going to auction. She thinks he’s the best fit.

Bayhawk,

appreciate your comment. I’ve been asking that myself a lot. Am I not overshooting with these foals? Probably best to buy a 6-7year old I could ride and try out. But most are too expensive and have been badly (rushed) trained. Which is why I’m preferring a foal to then train it myself with the help of a pro trainer. But then, how to choose a foal? So I’m looking for good bloodlines to increase my chances of getting a good horse. But I like your suggestion, I think I did see a Contender somewhere… There is one nice Cassini II filly, but way too expensive…

Thanks again everyone, I’ll keep you posted! I’ll have more news this weekend.

cheers,
Ana

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

Just a comment- frequently the breeder really does know best!

[wanderlust]

Re: the Douglas mare… I see it has Goodtimes in the dam line. I owned a direct Goodtimes son who was kind, easy, quiet and brave (dam unknown, long story). Not always the best in front and a little slow off the ground sometimes, but had a fabulous hind end. He was a big boy, over 17h and long, but pretty easy to ride, super kid/ammy friendly, and you literally could not get him to stop at a fence. He did everything without batting an eye- liverpool, open water, you name it. I’ve heard the same about many other Goodtimes.

Maybe some of that nice temperament will counter the “angry” tendency? She sure looks nice and quiet in the video.

[EquipeMK]

[QUOTE=Sakura Hill Farm;6522476]
Just a comment- frequently the breeder really does know best![/QUOTE]

And in this case she is a sweet heart and very competent! The problem is that the Douglas mare is from another breeder… hence my despair! And the match she’s offering is only 3 years old… oh so many variables!

[EquipeMK]

[QUOTE=wanderlust;6522598]
Re: the Douglas mare… I see it has Goodtimes in the dam line. I owned a direct Goodtimes son who was kind, easy, quiet and brave (dam unknown, long story). Not always the best in front and a little slow off the ground sometimes, but had a fabulous hind end. He was a big boy, over 17h and long, but pretty easy to ride, super kid/ammy friendly, and you literally could not get him to stop at a fence. He did everything without batting an eye- liverpool, open water, you name it. I’ve heard the same about many other Goodtimes.

Maybe some of that nice temperament will counter the “angry” tendency? She sure looks nice and quiet in the video.[/QUOTE]

She does look calm on the video. I’ll let you know after my visit to their farm on Saturday!

[wigum]

well she doesnt appear to have inherited the anger at all. looked very sweet in fact

[Equilibrium]

To add to Wigum, I have seen some rather nice ones when crossed on TB mares. But yes indeed when one talks of Douglas angry gets thrown around. I had looked at breeding my TB mare to him at one stage. The year after Abba was born. While I don’t consider her angry, I just thought of angry on top of stupid enthusiasm!

I agree with what others have said about the individuals. Any jumper bred horse should be capable of 1.20m courses.

Good luck
Terri

[EquipeMK]

Voltaire it is!

Hi everyone,

thanks to all that answered my post, your feedback is very much appreciated! So, end of story (or beginning of a new story, depending on how you see it) I got the Voltaire colt! The Douglas filly did not pass my vet’s inspection of her x-rays and the other filly, well, she just didn’t get to me the way the colt did, though she is a brave jumper. And she was sold for a price almost 4 times higher than him! But she is ready to ride, which of course really increases the price.

All in all, I think he will make a good horse for me. And I checked out on his mother, she’s absolutely no chicken, so that should counterpart any excessive carefulness he might inherit from Voltaire.

Well, wish me luck now, and thanks again!

best regards, Ana

[buschkn]

Congrats and good luck with your new horse!

[Sakura_Hill_Farm]

Congratulations and best wishes with your new horse!