And now for some PRE news

[CanteringCarrot]

@2tempe

I’m not saying that I see a particular problem, though IF people are breeding primarily for size, and not some other traits, that the breed will change over time. Also, I happen to be of shorter stature (and older…)and do not want a horse over 16 hands. Try to find a warmblood that size; they are few and far between, thus limiting those breeds for my size rider. We are not all Debbie McDonald, lol.

That (I’m 5’4) and I just really feel as though horses can be too big. I feel as though there is a good functional height, especially for some breeds/types. I also don’t want to get into needing a larger trailer, blankets, other tack, etc. Partially because I can’t be arsed and if everyone stays within the same sizes it’s convenient

I also like being able to get on from the ground when we are out and about if I have to. Opening and closing gaits and other functional hacking things are easier too on certain heights.

[mbdsea]

I totally agree that it’s definitely mental! And they need to learn to wait and think about every step (not be thinking about what you might want in the next 5-10 steps LOL) - and not just go faster and choppier. But when they do learn that, then it takes basically nothing to get good work out of them, so it really does look (and kind of is) effortless on the rider’s part. Mine is definitely an (over)thinker. I joke that sometimes he should just forget about it and buck or something, but he would never… hahahaha.

[CanteringCarrot]

Yessss

I’m on level 5 and he’s on level 105!

[mbdsea]

Totally! They are so funny that way! The need to learn to meditate and be in the moment or something.

[SpicyPRE]

As a self identified WB snob, many were surprised when a PRE joined the herd. I actually find my PRE to be harder than many WBs, physically with his shorter back, he is VERY quick and has spun out from underneath me when he felt that I was asking for something incorrectly. He has a VERY strong sense of right and wrong and will hold a grudge. The emotional component is very real.

[2tempe]

My Lusi stallion is 21 and we’ve had a great relationship. That said, between the breed and the testosterone, we periodically get into the discussion “Who is driving this bus???” Never naughty, just gets bigger or at worst, putting that neck down on the bridle. But this also makes me laugh because he’s just such a tryer…

[JB]

@Willesdon

Ah, the eternal question. Do you want the sport or do you want the breed?

One only has to look at the QH to see how something like this can go. Essentially the QH is no longer a QH. It’s a QH by pedigree only, with several very distinct types, both in conformation, and in size

[mbdsea]

“The neck down on the bridle…” I know EXACTLY what you mean - they are light but can be NOT by the pressing down. Those necks are something! I basically don’t let mine go straight straight - he’s shoulder fore nearly all of the time, unless we’re doing haunches in. at least for now!

[Caol_Ila]

My recently backed four-year old Carthusian mare doesn’t have that tight, speedy leg thing at all. I know what you mean because there are two others at my yard who are like that. She is so laid back she is nearly horizontal.

She is very petite. 15hh on a tall day but probably going to gain an inch or two. Hopefully not much more. I like little horses.

[2tempe]

I’m curious as to where you got your mare - was just reading as I wasn’t familiar with them; it appears that they are not very common?

[CanteringCarrot]

FWIW I see Carthusian lines pop up somewhat regularly. Not a lot, but they’re not soo difficult to find, but I also follow a lot of breeders, some of which are smaller or in various little corners that might not hit the main or international market.

The breeder of my youngster has some really interesting older likes in some of her breeding stock. She took over some mares when the owner of a stud (farm) passed away, and also inherited a few from another older breeder, so she has an interesting array, but she’s not a breeder I would’ve ever found if it weren’t for some inside connections.

[Caol_Ila]

My mare came from a breeder near Glasgow who has some very nice, very old lines. Or so I have been told by people who know their PREs. Can’t say she is the poster child for responsible breeding, though, because she let my horse get knocked up by her half brother as a two-year old, and she had a foal (under my watch, at that point ) a couple weeks shy of her third birthday.

Her son is now owned by a very good friend. He will be two in June, and he’s as laid back as his mother. I also know my mare’s half-sister - same stallion, different dam - and she is hot as a hot thing. Very strong tendency towards that choppy, paddling movement and prefers the jig to the walk. My mare is just not a great giver of f*cks about most stuff, most of the time. I reckon it’s the damline.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I am so glad you got a good mare.

She is beautiful.

[joiedevie99]

@mbdsea

(can be tight, not through, middle not mobile)

This is so right! IMHO, it is no easier to achieve correct work on a PRE - it’s just a different set of challenges. And in most cases, the PRE challenges require less physical skill/strength, and more tact/nuance/feel. Sadly for the horses, it’s also a set of challenges that is more easily skipped because they always ‘look’ round.

I spent nearly a year after purchase re-educating mine about how to swing through the back and reach to the bit/take the contact. I showed him through CDI small tour before his untimely retirement.

[CanteringCarrot]

@joiedevie99

@mbdsea

(can be tight, not through, middle not mobile)

This is so right! IMHO, it is no easier to achieve correct work on a PRE - it’s just a different set of challenges. And in most cases, the PRE challenges require less physical skill/strength, and more tact/nuance/feel. Sadly for the horses, it’s also a set of challenges that is more easily skipped because they always ‘look’ round.

I spent nearly a year after purchase re-educating mine about how to swing through the back and reach to the bit/take the contact. I showed him through CDI small tour before his untimely retirement.

Yesss, this. 100%

[Caol_Ila]

Mine did a few steps of passage today, spooking at a flatbed trailer we passed (horses really don’t like them! my Highland had a meltdown at one yesterday, but his reaction was to spin and try to go the other way. He had the same reaction to a couple police horses, who emerged from a huge, scary lorry and were equally as excited to see us. I guess they are accustomed to riots, protests, and rowdy soccer matches, where you generally don’t come across other ridden horses, but this week, our park was a little bit of a crime scene, hence their presence).

Still, the movement is certainly there.

[Amordoro]

I agree with this. I have 2 PREs, and they are very different from each other, but also extremely different from the WBs I have had. While their temperaments are amazing - both were stallions before being imported, one actively breeding, and they are so kind, without a mean bone in their bodies, though quite opinionated! - I have found them no easier to ride (correctly), and in many ways for me as an amateur (who has ridden through I1 on a WB) they are more frustrating. I just don’t seem to have, or to be able to develop, the very precise feel and nuance that they seem to require in order to be ridden correctly enough that they become delightfully easy, as my professional trainer finds them. And when not correct, they are tight, overuse their necks, and don’t push through their backs. It is a constant struggle for me.

It is very frustrating. I know it’s not the horses, it’s that I’m just not skilled enough, but given that I simply might never be, no matter how many lessons I take or how hard I work at it, I feel like going with the PREs might not have been the right choice for me (though again I couldn’t ask for better temperaments). So I do think their “easiness” is overstated and a bit of a myth. Actually I don’t really believe that any horse is easy lol, and these are just hard in a different way.

[BigMama1]

I think the physical easiness of sitting their gaits compared to big moving WB’s gets confused with “easy to ride.” That being said, I’m willing to give “easy to sit” a try for my next horse lol.

We’ve had several very nice PRE’s and Lusitanos in our barn for training and sale, as well as owned by boarders, and though there’s a wide range of variety within the breed, it seems to me the PREs are more sensitive and need a more nuanced, tactful ride than the Lusitanos.

[mbdsea]

I haven’t ridden a Luso ever, and my Andalusian is sensitive but not ridiculously so. I think it’s just a matter of “less is more.” Having come from warmbloods, I tend to overcorrect on him, which isn’t necessary haha. He’s very forgiving though, so it doesn’t make him mad, just tighter. He really does (over) try to figure out what I’m asking, so I have to be clear and direct. He gives a great spot to sit in but he’s never going to get an 8 on gaits (well - the trot anyway). I think he’ll make up for it as he collects - his half steps are quite good, and we are working on the “bounce” in trot. But that is his challenge for sure. And it’s fine - he makes me smile every ride with his other qualities.

[mbdsea]

For sure - that’s why we started mine at the get go trying to get into the back - and middle. It wasn’t easy because it isn’t the way he naturally wants to go but hopefully it will pay off later. We really had him going pretty flat for LONG time (and slow) rather than the flashy high front knees and illusory “collection.” Now we are working on putting the flash back in and keeping the stride length and the reach. He was confused for a hot minute because he’s smart - “I thought you wanted me loooonnnnnnngggg?!?!” - but he’s getting it.