Happy Birthday
Happy Birthday
http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1745122254603&source=jl999
Theo
Thank you
[QUOTE=Equibrit;3772940]
It is a cultural thing. A European will tell it like it is to your face and walk off. An American will smile, spew sycophantic goo, and then turn round and tell another story to their mates. It makes it very hard to trust anybody![/QUOTE]
Hmmm as a Yankee American I think we very much tell it how it is compared to southerns. I just got back from Germany looking for hunters and I can assure you the German’s get just as offended. They were told what kind of movement we were looking for and there are plenty of nice dressage horses that move like daisy cutters in front so this wasn’t foreign to them. If they brought one out and it trotted with a lot of knee action and we said nope they would get all offended. We had to pretend we were taking videos as not to offend them. I was thinking why waste their time and the horses energy to run them around the arena and make these young horses jump through a grid when we knew in two or three trot steps it wasn’t going to work. I do agree with Theo on some of the critiques on this board.
Back on topic
Back on topic
But…don’t you think you learn much more when people tell you the truth in direct and very clear words.
I never heard trainers say “My dear if you have time and if you feel like it would you please consider to use your inside leg a little bit less, and it would be absolute lovely when you hold your reins a little lower and if it’s not tooo much to ask please keep in mind that it’s always better to keep your lovely shoulders straight” 
Theo
Consider the videos and the people that post them. Why would anyone ask for opinions from complete strangers:confused:
hey go put some of that european tough tell it how it is to practice. Here is a thread asking for opinions on a dressage prospect. http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=183489
I do have videos posted on YouTube, and when I give the URLs somewhere, I usually say that I am not looking for critique. That’s for my trainer and more experienced friends to give; they know the horse I am riding, the challenges I face as a rider, and my strengths and weaknesses.
The first videos I ever posted were from when I was less than a year into my life as a re-rider, doing Intro tests on a 24 year old TB mare who is absolutely not a dressage horse. A stranger would look at Minnie snatching at the bit repeatedly and have nothing good to say, not realizing that Minnie had snatched at the bit for all her life, for almost every rider, and that actually she and I looked much better than when I started riding her more seriously and not just trail riding, 3 months before. (And that I was riding her without her usual standing martingale in the show, which made the problem worse.)
Similarly, there are a few videos of me and my own horse, taken 2 days after she was delivered to me. And I am not the sort who can get on a new horse and instantly have things figured out.
My trainer has the patience of Job; she’s very critical when she needs to be, but at the same time, when I finally get something she praises me. Even if there are flaws, she wants me to know when whatever she’s focused on is correct. It motivates me to try to get it, and sometimes we do have to back off and focus on a smaller goal. And she knows that my mare and I are not the best match, maresy being not very forgiving and occasionally prone to tantrums. But she seems to be able to work magic on “difficult” horse-rider combinations, so I stick with it. A trainer who yelled at me would just not work.
Yes.
I never heard trainers say “My dear if you have time and if you feel like it would you please consider to use your inside leg a little bit less, and it would be absolute lovely when you hold your reins a little lower and if it’s not tooo much to ask please keep in mind that it’s always better to keep your lovely shoulders straight”
I’ve never had a trainer utter anything close to that. In fact, their utterances are usually at the opposite end of the spectrum. :lol:
Where are all these overly complimentary American trainers? I have yet to meet one. Hmph, I feel so left out!
Nope, my trainer tells it like it is and he’s no German.
But in the US we are taught a skill called “constructive criticism.” That means that if you have something critical to say, you say it in a way that is helpful to the subject. “That’s a trainwreck” is not so constructive.
And criticism does not sink in if it is too blunt. If you’re making comments about something, what is your goal? If it’s to help the person improve, word it in a way that is inoffensive yet effective, and they might listen. If your goal is only to announce how much you disliked the video, I agree that the words of Thumper and the moms of some previous posters prevail- if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.
Maybe this isn’t part of the German social rules?
I don’t post a critique unless it’s asked for. Even if it’s a total train wreck, I try to be helpful. There’s no use saying “You look like absolute poop and your horse moves like a wounded duck. Even a drunken monkey could ride your horse better you ninny”. At the end of the day, the pony still suffers, the rider still sucks, and nothings accomplished. If I absolutely can’t find a way to be helpful, I just suggest a trainer or don’t say anything at all.
I never post on youtube. Sure, there are a lot of videos that I’d like to say something about, and there are a lot of videos that make me want to find the rider and slap them on the back of the head. But at the end of the day, I don’t post videos on youtube for random strangers to critique, so why would anyone else. Not worth the bother.
Ambre, your trainer is Austrian.
[QUOTE=Coreene;3773453]
Ambre, your trainer is Austrian.[/QUOTE]
Well, see, it’s not German
Seriously, I wrote that and then thought- Coreene’s gonna correct me on that. I just know it.
He is also a gentle person and tells it like it is without being harsh or mean, so no matter which European country he hails from, he has learned the skills of tact and constructive criticism. Only he doesn’t always use them because he knows when he tells me I look like a trainwreck it always makes me laugh
eta: Has anyone watched Jane Savoie’s clinics? Amazing ability to tell it like it is and critique and teach without making people feel bad.
[QUOTE=egontoast;3772651]
I get the impression that most people who ask for critiques are not really looking for critiques. The posts often sem to be ‘brags’ disguised as critiques and theposter gets very offended if anyone actually critiques them.:)[/QUOTE]
Agreed!!!
[QUOTE=Coreene;3773453]
Ambre, your trainer is Austrian.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
My agreement with Theo’s post still stands. It is the same as watching showjumping commentary here. If they’re having a shit ride, call it a shit ride, don’t kumbaya it. A little more Simon Cowell and a little less Up With People. That’s why I love Dutch and German dressage commentary.
[QUOTE=freestyle2music;3773096]
Back on topic
But…don’t you think you learn much more when people tell you the truth in direct and very clear words.
I never heard trainers say “My dear if you have time and if you feel like it would you please consider to use your inside leg a little bit less, and it would be absolute lovely when you hold your reins a little lower and if it’s not tooo much to ask please keep in mind that it’s always better to keep your lovely shoulders straight”
Theo[/QUOTE]
Theo- I think first of all- your observation is very correct. Siegi stated it perfectly.
Although I know that you are not German- I think the dutch and belgians are similar in the respect to riding and when asked an opinion to render a HONEST opinion.
The american culture is highly influenced by the victorian principles. It is not ok to publicly hard core criticize anyone- even if asked to do so.
Secondly- Americans are weary of getting ‘involved’. Going to the bottom of someone’s miserable riding- by starting to give a detailed dissertation about the horse’s anatomical dysfunctions and then continue to tell the rider what issues are completely standing in the way of success is unacceptable in our culture. It is truly unthinkable- that an educated, sensitive and smart person would ever post such a thing on a public internet board.
Therefore- you will not find any really ‘tough’ or to the point critiques on this board…although sometimes posters seem to really ask for honesty and constructive criticism.
To me- it’s mostly an innate fear of getting involved to that degree of intimacy. That fear might have to do with law suits and the fact that you can easily get in trouble for anything said and recorded in public…
just my 5cents…maybe that’s why we are ultimately having a hard time getting better at the sport…hehe!!!
Kind of like no one stepping up in Hong Kong and saying “that mare is lame.”
I have a couple of theories about this.
First with TV commentators; I can’t ever seem find any dressage on TV so I can’t comment on the commentators. But I think there are 2 possibilities. First there just isn’t the same general depth on knowledge about the sport. The few times I have seen it on US TV, it is seem like it is a jumper person speaking. Fine horsemen (or women) I am sure but their comments usually miss the mark, IMO. Most people who really know the sport, are competing. Second because there is a desire to promote the sport and encourage new viewers (and sponsors), there might be a tendency to keep it all sweetness and light out of concern that talking trash might scare people away. I am in the camp that would appreciate more direct comments, definitely.
The youtube thing; Don’t get that. It always strikes me like Gloria Swanson at the end of Sunset Blvd. I don’t particularly like criticism (who does?) but I recognize its value when it comes from an informed source. I have used youtube for sales videos and to share work with clinicians or friends. Anonymous postings from people on the internet are meaningless for me. Remember how Bill Clinton used to say “Nice tie” when he really meant “you are an @$$hole”?
I tend to interpret platitudes in that light :lol:
That’s because he’s a good ol’ southern boy. Noy that I have ever been a huge fan of Robert Dover, but I do appreciate that he calls 'em like he sees 'em. Same with George Morris. Which is why Simon Cowell shot to fame - he says what most people here would never dare say. But really should.
I’m an English instructor (not a riding instructor!) and one of the things I always have to keep in mind when I’m issuing criticism is 1) whether what I’m saying will actually help the student improve and 2) how to best phrase it so that the student is motivated to improve. I don’t believe in pussyfooting around my students - that isn’t honest, nor is it helpful. However If I go in with all guns blazing I’m just going to turn them off from reflecting on their piece of writing. So yes, I do usually try to find ONE thing that I like about the piece. Could be that they did an interesting bit of research - now present that research in a particular place to strengthen your argument.
My riding instructor, who is European, does not mince words - I KNOW when I’m done with a lesson just where I managed to screw up the horse. But I’ve developed a relationship of trust with her - we can’t be all nicey in the arena, but when we come out we usually do a post-mortem that covers some stuff that I did do right, as well as homework for next week. I’ve taken lessons with much nicer trainers who managed to insult me much worse than mine (substitute one week when we were trying to teach my resistant greenie that contact with the bit must be maintained. She praised what I was doing, then said that she doubted my ability to correct him should he rear. Well, she hadn’t seen me ride him more than a couple of times, and he wasn’t going to do it that week, for sure - I can tell.). My regular trainer knows the horse well enough that she’ll tell me to push him through while knowing darned good and well that if she shouts “nose to knee!!!” I’m going to respond instantly. Helps to have someone who knows you and your horse, I guess.
It is a cultural difference.
Did you ever been to Asia? They smile and say “yes” even when they mean “no” or even when they completely do not understand you - they still smile and say “yes”.
It’s just a polite thing to do and if you don’t do it you are considered “rude” and with out proper manners.
Benefits are that US folks are actually more polite and really a pleasure to be around. Unfortunately, a side effect is that many communications are shallow. Most just stroke the surface and this is how they like it.
Straight talk is a privilege for very close friends or family. It’s rude and unexpected to be so “friendly” as to give a straight talk. You are supposed to make a “sandwich”: positive/negative/positive.
Not many people want to kill a dream even if it’s an impossible dream. Sometimes no matter how softly you’ll lay it out, it still will be too harsh for some… Especially a free, public advice should be light as a feather.
PS: Don’t confuse mud slinging with straight talk, since some Americans are the best at that!
