And now I want to get some true answers !

There’ll always be differences in communicationstyle and some of those will because of cultural diversity. To appreciate that all you have to do is join a foreign bulletin board and see how folks interpret and understand what you’re saying :wink:

Joking aside, if you’re a riding instructor then it is important to give criticism that is detailed, instructional, helpful and motivational no matter where in the world you’re from.

I’d say though that that’s not the case when it comes to commentating on a performance or judging even if it come to that. I’d also say that the reason why some folks make superficial comments then is more likely to be that they don’t know any better, don’t want to hurt feelings or are like I said in my first posting here. In that context when folks make subjective nasty comments I’d also say that it’s because they don’t know any different and want to hurt feelings or are maybe just jealous and/or frivolous and vexatious.

When it comes to commenting on dressage which is based on opinion and so arguably a “subjective beauty competition” then I’m thinking that you’ll get those that comment superficially because they actually genuinely don’t know what they’re supposed to be looking at and judging.

The best example I have this is from my wife’s dog showing world. We owned a fantastic golden retriever who ended his days as a Champion and with 26 challenge certificates. He was a line bred Royal puppy and came from a record holding litter which ended up with 7 champions. He was purpose bred and always destined to be good and great and he was. He was genuinely the most symmetrical, powerful and balanced dog I’ve ever seen. (but then what would I know, I’m in to horses :wink: ) When he was a pup though, he did however have a few black hairs on his nose!? On one of his early outings he went to a show under a judge that Sue and her sister said they wouldn’t normally go to but we had some bitches being shown too so they took him for the ride and the outing and experience. As it happened he came 4th but we know that was because the judge knew the handler always had good dogs. The judge also said “he’s got some black hairs on his nose” . The handler said “You don’t say. But what do you think of his conformation and stifles?” Truth be told we know this particular judge wouldn’t have known what to think about anything more complicated than the obvious to the blind.

One of the things I’ve always thought competitive dressage (and horse showing) could do better is engage the audience and the competitor come to that.

Folks win and lose and most often no-one knows why.

Critical detailed comment highlighting good and bad points is genuinely helpful and informative and when scoring is based on points deducted for not being “perfect” or “true to standard” then it makes sense to me to say what is wrong and away from that standard and not what is right.

I don’t think it’s a cultural thing. It’s more a personality thing.

I’m very blunt and I say it how it is. Some can take it some can’t. I couldn’t stomach a trainer who only said nice things and, if they were said in that sickly sweet encouraging the simple-minded pupil way, I would get violent!

Other people want it like that.

People who post videos for critique are just looking for attention. There’s nothing wrong with that btw, we all want to be noticed.

I don’t believe everyone who posts videos ‘just wants attention’.

I think some of them don’t want to pay for riding lessons, and they think they can get free lessons from the internet.

I think some of them have instructors, but don’t believe them, and don’t trust them. They want to see what other people say. Some are angry because they scored poorly at a show, and want others to tell them they are better than that.

I think some of them ask for critiques, but actually do not want critiques, they want to hear praise. I think some people work alone a lot, and don’t have a realistic idea of how they are doing - they post videos to show off their riding and their horse and how well they’re doing, and get very angry when the get any comments other than ‘love your horse’.

I think some people work with an instructor rarely, and think videos being critiqued on the internet, can fill in meantime.

I don’t think videos really show that much, especially when they are from very far away, blurry, or in a dark arena. I think most of the time, people should focus more on finding a qualified instructor and listening to what the instructor says.

They also get to know the rider over time, and see what the result is when they ask the rider to try something; they build up a history, kind of a ‘portfolio’ on the horse and rider, and they have the advantage of being able to ride the horse, and possibly, to see the rider on a number of different horses over time.

Doing critiques of videos, and especially watching the video and reading what others write as critique, however, shows a lot of the mistaken idea s people have about dressage, how little we understand collection, self carriage, or even, just the process of training or learning to ride.

I don’t think anyone should EVER rely on internet critiques, for training, riding or ANY kind of evaluation in dressage. Give the people on the bb a video to train THEM, not to train yourself! Get a certified instructor to teach you, get a trainer to train your horse, and get a decent agent or trainer to evaluate and recommend for your horse. If it’s lame, take it to a veterinarian, if that one can’t figure it out, take it to a veterinarian that specializes in sport horse lameness..

A lot of the critiques are very educational about how people view dressage, because they are so negative, so picky, or so inappropriate - the beginner rider whose horse isn’t ‘collected enough’, for example, or the intermediate rider whose flying changes still have a few ‘bugs’ in them…the unrealistic evaluations and expectations show how far we have yet to go in dressage, and how much we have to learn.

Some of the commentaries are extremely unrealistic - they can come from people who have an axe to grind, having developed an overly negative view of dressage competition or the riders in their local area…often without at the same time developing their eye.

The worst part is a lot of people aren’t getting ‘eye exams’ - constantly bouncing their impressions off a much more experienced trainer, for validation.

I also think Americans take criticism much more personally. This is a generalization, of course. . .but it seems to me you can be friends with a German and criticize something about them like an aspect of their riding and still remain the best of friends. They realize you’re criticizing their riding, not attacking them personally. With some Americans any criticism seems like a personal attack of their very being and soul. Sabine says we don’t become involved for fear of intimacy. True, but the flip side is our “zone of intimacy” is very broad and too easily invaded.

If I’m teaching, I call it as I see it. I want to fix as much as I can at the time, set a future goal, and leave everyone thinking forward and happy.

When I see some of the videos that are posted I feel they come under the “if you can’t say something nice …” heading. So I seldom post.

First - I think life is too short and precious to be so angry, hateful, and negative all the time. Sure, you can be truthful, outspoken, and opinionated, as I usually am, but I do think there’s a limit to it. There is a LOT of “omg what the hell is wrong with you?!” thoughts that go through my head while reading posts here, but I rarely make comments anymore because life is too short, and what’s the point anyway??? It never gets you anywhere. I love a good debate where both sides disagree and share viewpoints, resources, links, etc. because it fuels healthy thought. But unless it is outright horse abuse, it’s generally not worth it. But yes, abuse situations I definitely can’t keep my mouth zipped.

I got banned from a horsie bulletin board because I spoke out about a chick who had a nasty disgusting bone bag living in a filthy stall full of garbage, and tied up to the kiddie swingset in the back yard so he could graze. She routinely posted photos of this nightmare, and everybody would coo “Oh, he’s such a cute boy.” “Oh you can be a proud mommie because your pony is so cute.” Well, bullshit. I posted that the animal was in danger of injury or disease, and that it was outright neglect to keep an animal in such conditions. GARBAGE in his stall??? As in - papers, plastic bags, cans, etc…:eek: :no:I got a nasty PM from the board administrator teling me we should all get along and be nice to the girl because she loves her horse.

Then some western pleasure chick posted photos and videos of a stallion she was breeding to that was so freakin lame he could barely get one foot in front of the other. The beast looked 90% dead. He literally looked like his back was broken, his nose was dragging in the dirt, his ears were pinned, tail was swishing. It was horrible. And I love a good western pleasure horse! But this was hideous. When I asked if the horse was lame, I got banned for being a trouble maker who couldn’t just “be nice.” :lol:

Second - how does Theo explain George Morris then? :wink: :lol:

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3773742]
Second - how does Theo explain George Morris then? :wink: :lol:[/QUOTE]

Theo is generalizing. There are always exception. But, really, GM isn’t all that nasty at all. . .the fact that he’s perceived to be just proves what Theo is saying :wink:

Bottom line Americans are just nicer, funnier, smarter and of course more generous:lol::lol::lol:

Yeh but they’re rubbish riders :wink:

Some people completely melt down if you give an honest opinion. Like you, Theo.

FOUR pages…? And people are still criticizing Theo, who actually gets the BB and this forum to at least wake up and post…?

Gosh, and it is 2009 already and nothing has changed.

(clever icon here whatever you like)

As for the topic at hand–everything has already been said somewhere within the four pages. Or at least anything I can think of.

HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!

Health and joy for us all.

“Yeh but they’re rubbish riders”

That’s fairly rude, but there are just as many beginner or weak riders in every country and place - including the British Isles.

Poor Theo.

I can’t count the number of times he’s stomped off in a fit of rage, because someone gave an honest opinion of a video.

Um, I do believe that’s what this thread was about??

Are they?
I think the USA has held their own in the bigger competitions for a while now, so we cant be THAT bad dear old Thomas! :winkgrin:
Plus not everyone out there is trying to impress everyone. They just dont care.
Most people I know are NOT senstive ppl, so maybe you and Grand Der Theo, dont know as much as ya think about pathetic Americans. :lol:

No - it’s NOT rude, it’s a joke.

You stupid woman. That’s rude !

A rage? LOL To the point he gets so flustered he has been banned so many times I cant even count.
That is why I cracked up when he/she called Americans “nice!” :lol::lol::lol:

We are stupid Americans… what do we know!
:cool::cool:

If everyone would go back and read Theo’s post, you’d see that nowhere does he mention nasty. He wondered why people didn’t call a spade a spade. George Morris is not nasty, he calls a spade a spade as well. No one said dish it out sans compliments - there will always be something nice you can find.

I appreciate Theo’s love and enthusiasm for dressage. I just wish he wouldn’t get angry when people post differing viewpoints.

[QUOTE=slc2;3773859]
“Yeh but they’re rubbish riders”

That’s fairly rude, but there are just as many beginner or weak riders in every country and place - including the British Isles.[/QUOTE] Erm JOKE!!

In exactly the same way as the one I posted in response to was a JOKE!!

Sure that is a joke isn’t it.

Sorry I forgot that Americans don’t get irony and sarcasm

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3773939]
I appreciate Theo’s love and enthusiasm for dressage. I just wish he wouldn’t get angry when people post differing viewpoints.[/QUOTE]

I do appreciate his taking the time to post videos.

I don’t think it’s a cultural thing. It’s more a personality thing.

I’m very blunt and I say it how it is. Some can take it some can’t. I couldn’t stomach a trainer who only said nice things and, if they were said in that sickly sweet encouraging the simple-minded pupil way, I would get violent!

I agree. I had one trainer who is the female version of George Morris. She tells it like it is and doesn’t use much flattery. She was not everyone’s cup of tea. Then another who said “Super” at least 100 times during a lesson.