And now I want to get some true answers !

[slc2]

It’s the darndest thing, but somehow, telling those two locals the truth actually hasn’t interfered with Ralf Iselhorst’s business. For many years, riding instructors in general and dressage instructors specifically have been very demanding, very precise, and VERY LOUD, and evinced very little gushing and praise to riders. That’s expected.

But saying some hubris filled teenage rides like a monkey and they don’t try JUST because they don’t ride well at a clinic? I’m not sure I really find that so awe inspiring or cool, and I’m not so sure riding like crap in a clinic justifies assuming the kid doesn’t care and isn’t trying. Maybe the kid was nervous and having trouble changing how he/she rides in the clinic - to be honest, I very, very rarely see ANYONE making huge changes to long-standing habits in one clinic session. I’m sure it tickled some to see the local well endowed and annoying children put in their place. But actually, I think they should have been told specifically, technically, at some point, what specifically they are doing wrong.

If they were sassing him, fine, toss them out immediately, but I would have to hear something more than just they’re the local children-we-don’t-like and they don’t ride well, to justify calling them names and humiliating them publicly. I don’t mind, ‘come on let’s see a half halt that WORKS!!!’ or the like, I don’t feel that’s the same thing.

[ridgeback]

[QUOTE=Discobold;3774903]
Have you ever ridden with him? I have two friends who rode regularly with him when he was at Hunterdon, and he was as nice as could be. I’ve been to his clinics. He is blunt but not nasty. I know this thread isn’t about George Morris, but what I am reading just doesn’t match “my reality” (as happens a lot on the internet :rolleyes: ) If you’ve ridden with him and he was “nasty” to you, say so. . .but don’t perpetuate rumors. I suspect George Morris gets a chuckle out of the way he is perceived. . .but most of the stories I hear about him are from people who haven’t been within 1000 feet of him :lol: . . .and I call a spade a spade too

Sorry to digress. . .I can’t resist :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

Well yes I have friends that rode with him and placed at the medal finals. Sure he’s mellowed with age but I’ve seen him action years and years ago …I’ve been at party’s he’s been at sat next to him on a plane etc etc so I can assure I’ve been closer than a 1000feet;) :lol::lol:

[ridgeback]

[QUOTE=mishmash;3775120]

And, as a side note, I always find it amusing how all these ladies jump to Thomas 1’s defense, no matter what he said. So cute. Is it because he is one of the few males on the board? I outgrew my need for male approval years ago…[/QUOTE]

Wow a little defensive about men I see:lol::lol: No I just call a spade a spade has nothing to with gender.

[MistyBlue]

Thomas is a guy??? :eek: :winkgrin: (kidding!)
I might agree with him more often than not…but not due to needing male approval. Ask my poor husband if I need male approval. :lol:
I probably end up agreeing with him because as most of my friends and family tells me…I’m about as feminine as a jockstrap. I’m just not very good at being the nurturing hand holding stereotypical female. (except for with my children)

[J-Lu]

@mishmash;3775120

And, as a side note, I always find it amusing how all these ladies jump to Thomas 1’s defense, no matter what he said. So cute. Is it because he is one of the few males on the board? I outgrew my need for male approval years ago…

As a side note, I think it’s amusing that on a board that is something like 95% women, you notice when women agree with men. Are we supposed to disagree simply because he’s a man? There’s lots of women i agree with…does that mean I have an unquenched need for female approval? :lol:

[mishmash]

Oh, I think it is fine to agree or disagree with anyone: male, female, or not sure yet-it is what makes this board interesting to read. It sure seems like people are awful quick to defend anything Thomas says from criticism, though.:winkgrin:

[MistyBlue]

Well Thomas is blunt and to the point. There’s probably many others who agree with his comments but weren’t wanting to be as blunt as he can be themselves so will defend any criticism of his bluntness.

[JSwan]

[QUOTE=Coreene;3773926]
If everyone would go back and read Theo’s post, you’d see that nowhere does he mention nasty. He wondered why people didn’t call a spade a spade. George Morris is not nasty, he calls a spade a spade as well. No one said dish it out sans compliments - there will always be something nice you can find.[/QUOTE]

I never rode with GM.

I rode with someone like him.

During a lesson he once said, “You look like a sack of potatoes up there.” I admit I was embarrassed. I thought I was FABULOUS. I even had a real dressage saddle to prove it. (that’s a joke)

I buckled down worked a lot harder.

A while later I was in another lesson and after we were done and I was cooling out my horse with a big grin on my face and lots of sweat dripping from me he gave me a very quiet, “bravo”. Then turned to a fellow instructor and said, “you notice none of my students are fat?”

No moral or point to the story except that I never thought he was belittling me to make him look good. He just told me how it was and he was right.

I worked harder and earned a “bravo” from him. Usually he saved his “bravos” for the horse for putting up with the rider. :lol: And his comment to the other instructor, which I overheard, was also a compliment. An indirect one, but still a compliment.

Too bad I had no talent. He was a fabulous instructor.

ETA - Oh, and I’m a card carrying member of the Thomas 1 fan club. Even if he is a boy and has cooties.

[nhwr]

I used to ride at a barn where my trainer was always around. I would take a few lessons a week. She had a definite way she wanted things done. I was a little more experienced and independent than many of her students. Occasionally, I’d be riding outside of a lesson and she would find doing something a little “outside the lines” and say something to me about it. I would reply in a good-natured tone “When I want your input, I’ll pay for it.” And the converse was always true, when I was in a lesson, I wanted her to be hard on me.

Her favorite saying in a lesson was “Shut up and ride!”

Payback is a b!+ch :lol:

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=mishmash;3775304]
Oh, I think it is fine to agree or disagree with anyone: male, female, or not sure yet-it is what makes this board interesting to read. It sure seems like people are awful quick to defend anything Thomas says from criticism, though.:winkgrin:[/QUOTE]

its called honest

[goeslikestink]

i also think sometimes as in any sport commentator that they riun it becuase they talk to much
and some get so excited that you miss what they going on about whereby if they shut up a bit you could enjoy it a bit more some times they go overboard with yacking

this comment as in critisum

Originally Posted by mishmash View Post
Oh, I think it is fine to agree or disagree with anyone: male, female, or not sure yet-it is what makes this board interesting to read. It sure seems like people are awful quick to defend anything Thomas says from criticism, though.

this comment can be seen in more ways than one-- defensive, obstinate, intrusive, fun, or sarcastic encoragment, truth,honesty , knowledge etc to other people or to the person its aimed at etc

just using this as exsample

but one is still judging by the exsample whats written wethers is right or wrong
as in life there is always a choice a yes or no a fore or against its how we perceive whats written whats seen and whats knowledge is of whats real in the subjects topics people or places etc and whats rubbish but then thats life

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=MistyBlue;3775370]
Well Thomas is blunt and to the point. There’s probably many others who agree with his comments but weren’t wanting to be as blunt as he can be themselves so will defend any criticism of his bluntness.[/QUOTE]

some people are tacful some arnt, some are just plain honest as in direct and to the point
but at least you know exactly where you stand with them

as from a rider or trianers point of view- i would rather someone be honest than lie
or beat about the bush and be pretty pretty

[Kareen]

While I do believe it is partly cultural difference I also think it has a lot to do with general self-confidence and a pronounced disproportion between rider’s skill and commercial weight.
Around here (I am talking about 25yrs back, I observe things are changeing in the matter) most riders start out as little kids who are taught by trainers they look up to and take for role models sometimes for life. I know I still look up to some of my ‘old instructors’ both in a riding and a human way. I must say among today’s active younger dressage trainers there isn’t a single one who I would deem ‘Idol-worthy’ in a human sense.
In the US a person who can afford riding lessons already belongs to an elite even if they can’t yet ride their way out of a paperback. If lower-income family kids start riding it generally means they anyhow get access to a horse and hack around unguided or by adults in their proximity for little to no money. Once these children enter the stage where they can afford dressage trainer lessons they have come to know their own economic value as being high achievers so they expect a level of respect from the person they pay.
Around here because of the farm breeding background and public riding facilities riding lessons are more accessible and affordable. As a result you have your first riding lessons when you are just a very normal kid and your instructor is normally paid by the riding club’s memberfees and the riding club collects the lesson fees which are a much less economic link than your average North American dressage parent paying for a lesson straight to the trainer who is treated more or less ‘hire and fire’ depending on results or what the parent’s concept of a training result is whether they are qualified to such evaluation or not.
In the UK I find this to be even more pronounced as riding simply belongs to childhood like Kindergarten. You just have a pony when you are little and you attend pony club etc. whether you are wealthy or not riding belongs to life.
This is not to say we don’t have bratty kids here who disrespect their instructors but I do think it’s a tremendous difference whether you are entertaining everything with your own hard-earned bucks that economically put you ahead of 70% of your fellow paesanos or if you receive your lessons within a system where almost everybody joins the same local riding club and instructors bear more weight and independance.
Like I said these effects are wearing off as riding more and more becomes the same elitist hobby here in Germany as all the other expensive sports.
Attitudes change slower though so around here you are still not supposed to critizise your instructor in any kind shape or form during a lesson. Instructors being more dangdangdang obsiously set you up for being more critical of yourself hence when a riding video is posted in Germany and someone says ‘your seat is a mess, you need to improve the position of your hands and please try to keep your calfs (sp?) still’ there is no uproar to be expected whereas in the US people wouldn’t even want to post such drastic wording in a polite attempt not to hurt anybody’s feelings.

[angel]

Very good post, Kareen. Spot on!

[Thomas_1]

[QUOTE=slc2;3774199]
A wink icon doesn’t change a nasty comment to a nice comment.[/QUOTE] And a brain cell doesn’t turn a cabbage into a thinking being.

For goodness sakes don’t be such a pillock! Sometimes it’s best to stay quiet and let people think you’ve missed the point then to open your mouth and remove all doubt!

[QUOTE=ridgeback;3774201]That is like saying all Brits have bad teeth:lol:Now come on we are great at irony and sarcasm…yes my post was tongue and cheek:)[/QUOTE] We do! Really

Haven’t you read about the national health services shortage of dentists over here! We have to pay to get the decent stuff!

Originally Posted by mishmash
And, as a side note, I always find it amusing how all these ladies jump to Thomas 1’s defense, no matter what he said. So cute. Is it because he is one of the few males on the board? I outgrew my need for male approval years ago…
In my dreams!!!

Surely no one actually believes that there’s correlation between agreement on a horse bulletin board and gender!

If so, I wonder how that explains all the women that disagree? Are they men posting under alters?

Or maybe those that agree are just the majority on the board duhhhh and just happen to be able to think for themselves and be those that actually do agree. duhhh

I’m not recognising a bunch of mindless Stepford Wives which is what you’re suggesting!

[Jenn2674]

I think some of it is cultural and some of it is personality. I personally haven’t had any instructors tell me that something I did was awesome when it wasn’t. I do know that there are some instructors that very rarely give any positives though and it does seem to be more of the German type instructors.

I do think that it is funny that Thomas from the UK is talking about americans not calling a spade a spade. The part from European Vacation comes to mind where Chevy Chase runs over the biker in london and the biker is apologetic to Chase even though he keeps hurting him. My family is from all over the UK, grandfather and aunt scottish, other grandfather welsh, grandmothers from England and I’d hardly say that americans pussyfoot around any more than the British do.

I do agree that saying someone rides like a monkey no matter how bad is not going to be very productive! While they might be an incredible rider they are only going to be successful with a few students because it isn’t a sign of a very good teacher if they talk like that on a regular basis. I also understand that sometimes they lose their patience. I witnessed a clinic once with a very reputable German clinician who does have a reputation for being tough. Everytime he would tell the rider something she would say “butt” or “I am” or “he won’t” to the point where all of us auditors were getting highly annoyed (you know the type I am talking about) and he finally lost it with her. I don’t think any of us blamed with him for that. He even refused to teach her again.

I think GM just got a bad rap because he points out people’s weight if they need to lose and he also focuses alot on appearance. That doesn’t make him nasty though, he just has high standards. Telling someone to lose weight is very different from telling someone they look like a hippo. The point might be the same but one is much more effective than the other.

[FancyFree]

And a brain cell doesn’t turn a cabbage into a thinking being.

For goodness sakes don’t be such a pillock! Sometimes it’s best to stay quiet and let people think you’ve missed the point then to open your mouth and remove all doubt!

There are a couple of sigs in those lines! :lol:

I always hear how nasty and belittling GM is, but when I watched my trainer take a clinic with him, I didn’t see that at all. He definitely doesn’t want you to waste his time, but he was polite at all times. Just matter of fact.

[Coreene]

Yes but FF, the thread only got derailed to being about nasty. Maybe because some thing calling a spade a spade is nasty, who knows?

[dalpal]

:lol:

[QUOTE=Coreene;3772573]
Theo, in the US you kid could be on the team that lost every single game in their soccere league, and they would still get a trophy. Sad but true part of the culture. Heaven forbid people should tell it like it is. That is why I am such a refreshing change from the norm, ha ha ha. ;)[/QUOTE]

ROTFLMAO…aint that the truth. As a flute teacher, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a particular mommy complain to me because I called a spade a spade…and I said it nicely and constructively.

For example…her daughter didn’t practice ALL summer…when she came back in the fall…she was NOT ready for her fall competition…so I “CONSTRUCTIVELY DISCUSSED” with her (she’s a high school senior) why we should drop down a level and she agreed…then mommy sent me the “you’ve destroyed my child’s self esteem” email.

We are so high on self esteem…that many times, people are too afraid to give any constructive criticism. I pay 65.00 per riding lesson and I have told my instructor, you can fuss at me, you can yell at me, hell, you can even tell me “That sucked”…I won’t cry, I won’t break…and I’ll be better for it, as long as you tell me how to fix it. I promise. :lol: I want to sweat for 65.00.

[dalpal]

[QUOTE=Coreene;3773517]
That’s because he’s a good ol’ southern boy. Noy that I have ever been a huge fan of Robert Dover, but I do appreciate that he calls 'em like he sees 'em. Same with George Morris. Which is why Simon Cowell shot to fame - he says what most people here would never dare say. But really should.[/QUOTE]

I. LOVE. Simon Cowell…I want to marry him (except I’m already married) :lol: What people don’t understand about Simon…he’s actually just trying to spark fire in each competitor.