Absolutely!
Dalpal, I hardly think one parent a society makes. I do not know a single parent who is like that. Everyone I know, personally, through school, etc., stresses the importance of hard work and perseverance in reaching one’s goals.
And as to soccer- in the lower levels, they do not keep score and kids get trophies for participation. My daughter treasures hers, LOL! They don’t lie about what it’s for. Once the kids get older, it is very competitive. There are playoffs, winners, losers, regional champions, etc. Anyone who thinks soccer is not rip-your-head-off competitive by the time the kid hits 10 has never participated 
And kids in our schools get grades in 3rd grade- including a big fat red F if that’s what they earned.
I hear this kind of talk all the time, and I have no idea where it comes from. It’s just not my experience at all. The earlier stuff about sandwiching criticism, yes. The free praise state, no.
[QUOTE=Jenn2674;3776320]
it does seem to be more of the German type instructors. [/QUOTE] What’s a German “type”? Surely someone is either German or they’re not??
I do think that it is funny that Thomas from the UK is talking about americans not calling a spade a spade. The part from European Vacation comes to mind where Chevy Chase runs over the biker in london and the biker is apologetic to Chase even though he keeps hurting him.
I think you’ll find that will be a film you’re talking about. They tend not to be the real world. I also think you’ll find it was an American film so it may… just may… be make believe and for entertainment.
My family is from all over the UK, grandfather and aunt scottish, other grandfather welsh, grandmothers from England and I’d hardly say that americans pussyfoot around any more than the British do.
With all that UK blood you ought to know there’s huge regional differences.
I’ve not reached the dizzy heights of many of the trainers given mention here, but I’ve got to say that I’m always amazed when pupils want to pay me whilst they tell me what they can and can’t do. I have frequently resorted to saying “are you paying me to teach or to listen”
[QUOTE=FancyFree;3776351]
There are a couple of sigs in those lines! :lol:
I always hear how nasty and belittling GM is, but when I watched my trainer take a clinic with him, I didn’t see that at all. He definitely doesn’t want you to waste his time, but he was polite at all times. Just matter of fact.[/QUOTE]
I think he is very similar to C. Schumacher and others…just LISTEN to what they are telling you, no need to give upteen excuses as to why you have the problem…SHUT UP and RIDE.
I don’t understand why so many people have problems with this …youre wasting your money and the instructor’s time. A sincere question is one thing, but just babbling on and on with excuses would piss me off too.
It’s no secret
It’s not a secret that In Germany and Holland (Scandinavia and the UK are following) almost every competition is life broadcasted on the internet. In Holland the commentators are mostly YoungRiders who study at the Johan Cruyff Sport Academy, MasterClass Deurne or in some cases retired Olympic Riders.
Specially these YoungRiders are not holding back in their comments, even if they have to comment the rides of their own trainers ;).
They really call a spade a spade, and very often predicts already what problems are coming in the next movement.
So could it have to do with skills, experience and know-how, or is it really a cultural thing ?
Theo
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3776502
]Dalpal, I hardly think one parent a society makes. I do not know a single parent who is like that. Everyone I know, personally, through school, etc., stresses the importance of hard work and perseverance in reaching one’s goals.
And as to soccer- in the lower levels, they do not keep score and kids get trophies for participation. My daughter treasures hers, LOL! They don’t lie about what it’s for. Once the kids get older, it is very competitive. There are playoffs, winners, losers, regional champions, etc. Anyone who thinks soccer is not rip-your-head-off competitive by the time the kid hits 10 has never participated
And kids in our schools get grades in 3rd grade- including a big fat red F if that’s what they earned.
I hear this kind of talk all the time, and I have no idea where it comes from. It’s just not my experience at all. The earlier stuff about sandwiching criticism, yes. The free praise state, no.[/QUOTE]
OH. DEAR. GOD…it’s an example. SIGH. I’ve taught for over 12 years, and YES DEAR, there are MANY people out there who just want you to tell their kids how wonderful they are, no matter how little they work.
How long have you been teaching? Serious question?
[QUOTE=dalpal;3776535]
OH. DEAR. GOD…it’s an example. SIGH. I’ve taught for over 12 years, and YES DEAR, there are MANY people out there who just want you to tell their kids how wonderful they are, no matter how little they work.
How long have you been teaching? Serious question?[/QUOTE]
I worked in the schools for 5 years. I never ran into such a person, seriously. I worked with both general ed and special ed, and every parent I met wanted to understand their child’s strengths and weaknesses.
Maybe it’s because I’m a bit of the OP-mentioned enthusiastic complementer, and totally sincere about it.
But I’ve also been a parent of a student for about 8 years, and have been involved in countless bitch-fests about the school system. No parent has ever told me that their child’s “self-esteem” was ruined by an earned failure. Confidence? Yes. But parents know that confidence gets banged up and needs to be rebuilt by earned success.
Theo, the rare example of televised dressage here usually has a non-dressage person doing commentary. Like our Olympic dressage commentary, which was shit. But no, the times you do have a dressage person doing it, they will never be the same as what you’d find there, due to culture and wanting to be hired again.
We have had televised dressage commentary in the US?
Melanie Smith-Taylor saying, “oops, another bobble” qualifies as commentary?
ROFLMAO
[QUOTE=canyonoak;3776578]
We have had televised dressage commentary in the US?
Melanie Smith-Taylor saying, “oops, another bobble” qualifies as commentary?
ROFLMAO[/QUOTE]
That’s exactly what I mean: The German commentator at Lingen 2008, “she’s loosing contact with the bit and she probably will get punished for that in the next canter-pirouette” and yes the canterpirouette looked like a 5 meter circle. Translated into English “oops a small bobble” .
Theo
[QUOTE=freestyle2music;3776599]
That’s exactly what I mean: The German commentator at Lingen 2008, “she’s loosing contact with the bit and she probably will get punished for that in the next canter-pirouette” and yes the canterpirouette looked like a 5 meter circle. Translated into English “oops a small bobble” .
Theo[/QUOTE]
That’s not culture, that’s just bad commentating.
Forgive me, Oakie, off the top of my head it was the best I could come up with! :lol: I was in throes of rapture, watching the Working Cow Horses on NBC - from the AQHA Worlds - and wondering why I wasn’t doing that instead. Aside from the fact that I live in the city and my horse is a foot too tall.
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3776605]
That’s not culture, that’s just bad commentating.[/QUOTE]
I think it’s just being toooooooo friendly, and don’t wanting to get into troubles.
Theo
Of course it is a film and that was part of the point. It was feeding a stereotype jsut as freestyle2music is feeding a stereotype about americans. I personally have not come across an instructor that just tells me how wonderful I am, that’s my point. they might not yell and scream at you and call you names and throw things but they sure as hell don’t tell me something I’m not.
I have to say tough, sorry Thomas1 I was thinking you were the one that started the thread so I was getting posts mixed up. I got a little confused when I saw you were from scotland but thought you were saying that Europeans in genearl were more to the point. Now I realize that it is about the German commentators vs everyone else. I don’t post very often so am not familiar with the people - sorry must not have got enough sleep last night because apparently my reading comprehension sucks today.
I do realize there are regional/cultural differences.
[QUOTE=freestyle2music;3776633]
I think it’s just being toooooooo friendly, and don’t wanting to get into troubles.
Theo[/QUOTE]
But like I said, other sports aren’t like that. At least Football and Baseball aren’t. Maybe it’s US dressage culture, not US culture in general?
[QUOTE=Coreene;3773471]
My agreement with Theo’s post still stands. It is the same as watching showjumping commentary here. If they’re having a shit ride, call it a shit ride, don’t kumbaya it. A little more Simon Cowell and a little less Up With People. That’s why I love Dutch and German dressage commentary.[/QUOTE]
Interesting thought from your comment. Since I do agree that our society in a lot of ways seems to center around being nice, and hand holding…etc. Why is it that people like Simon Cowell, Dr. House, and Dr. Bailey from Grey’s Anatomy are everybody’s favorite characters? We seem to love watching others get the smack down…
I think this was sort of discussed before, re: US (lack of) YR programs.
As was pointed out in that previous discussion, equestrian sports are just not as popular here as they are in Europe:
-North America has a wider range of sports for children and adults to choose from: Football, Basketball, Baseball, Soccer, Hockey, Golf, Tennis, Swimming, Track and Field.
And North America also has a wider range of equestrian sports: Reining, Pleasure, Endurance, Saddle Seat, Cow Roping, in addition to the Dressage, Jumpers, H/J and Eventing.
-Developing athletes are more prone to become involved in sports where there is the liklihood of a bigger $$ payoff (ie. Basketball, Football)
-Also, there are no local/state run equestrian facilities or programs. Parents have to pay the substantial costs themselves. So, is it any wonder that most children are steered toward school/city supported sports programs?
-No TV broadcast of equestrian sports for the most part (according to the networks due to lack of interest, so lack of $$$ support)
And the equestrian competitions and programs that ARE televised are geared to the general public and not to the equestrian. So the hosts are essentially “dumbing down” the commentary.
Actually, take a look at the developing rider thread over on the eventing forum. USEF and USET are struggling to find talented young riders with enough parental $$$ support to add to their developing rider roster.
There simply is not the amount of $$$ sponsorship of equestrian programs
in North America as in Europe. Because:
>>>Refer to above re: TV broadcasts…NOT ENOUGH INTEREST! <<<<
Which leads to the “sandwich” form of instruction: Trainers and BNT clinicians are, for the most part, not going to chance alienating their ammie $$$ fees by being hardcore, rude.
Most of the lessons/clinics in North America are taken by ammies NOT pros, who for the most part have a real job and their horse is a sport/hobby.
Not that they are not serious about riding well and developing their horses, but horses are 2nd or 3rd in line after their family and job. They are not devoting their time 24/7 to developing themselves or their horses.
I would think that one would see more hardcore instruction from these BNT’s when they are working with their Olympic Team riders as opposed to giving a clinic to ammies.
Why is it that people like Simon Cowell, Dr. House, and Dr. Bailey from Grey’s Anatomy are everybody’s favorite characters? We seem to love watching others get the smack down…
It is our inner European struggling to break free and yearning for re-unification with the motherland :winkgrin:
Claire, almost all of the $$ for YRs in the Netherlands comes from rich parents, sponsors and sponsored programs like the Rabobank Talentplan. Plus a lot of the YRs, after a certain point, are also teaching. The Talentplan helps a lot with, say, $$ for lessons, media training, etc.
But they DO have corporate sponsors like Rabobank? And there are public riding facilities that make riding a bit more accessible to the general public?
That is a big difference between North America and Europe.
Kareen makes some good points (using Germany as a comparison)
