And the bleaching begins...

[J-Lu]

Update! Despite my horse being on Ukulele copper supplement since November, and despite his pretty excellent nutritional intake (is fed a diet balancer to weight and workload, formally analyzed his grass pasture last year will again next month, formally analyzed his diet), the soil was analyzed, and the bleaching is right on schedule! His black points are not bleaching but the rest is. We’ll see if his mane and tail turn orange now since significant growth has occurred since November.

My vet is still not concerned. Horse lives in his own very well cared for 1.3 acre pasture 24/7.

I have friends at a nearby Lusitano farm who also tried Ukulele this year to prevent bleaching, we will compare notes.

Just wanted to update those who suggested copper supplementation last year. I did it, still see bleaching.

[RedHorses]

:lol:. Mine still haven’t finished shedding out their winter coats yet! :lol:

[Lord_Helpus]

My 2 dark horses (one dark brown, the other is registered as Black have already started to change color. Ewwwww. Neither will be showing, so I am just letting it turn an ugly color. color. But when I was showing one, he stayed inside from 9am to 6pm, and then wore a light sheet.

The Black as Knight product is illegal, so that is not an option. Report back with what you have done and what (in anything) happens.

[Palm_Beach]

@J-Lu

Update! Despite my horse being on Ukulele copper supplement since November, and despite his pretty excellent nutritional intake (is fed a diet balancer to weight and workload, formally analyzed his grass pasture last year will again next month, formally analyzed his diet), the soil was analyzed, and the bleaching is right on schedule! His black points are not bleaching but the rest is. We’ll see if his mane and tail turn orange now since significant growth has occurred since November.

My vet is still not concerned. Horse lives in his own very well cared for 1.3 acre pasture 24/7.

I have friends at a nearby Lusitano farm who also tried Ukulele this year to prevent bleaching, we will compare notes.

Just wanted to update those who suggested copper supplementation last year. I did it, still see bleaching.

I don’t see a big concern either. The best thing you can do for coats is keep them out of the sun. My personal preference is to have them outside as much as possible, dapples be damned. Genetics plays a large part, too.

[JB]

Nobody will (or should) tell you that getting the copper and zinc up will stop bleaching. Sun bleaches things, and if the horse is genetically a fading horse, he’s still going to bleach.

Getting the cu/zn up in some reasonable balance for that horse will reduce it. Not stop it. I can tell you my black horse used to turn buckskin. Now, he’s just reddish in all the places the sun is the worst

You can try a bump in the copper and zinc and see what happens next year (the darker the horse, the more copper required for an optimally healthy coat over and above what the body functions need), or just know that fading horses fade no matter what you do. If you’ve minimized it as much as you can, then you’ve optimized his nutrition and that’s all you can do.

[Foxglove]

When we showed regularly, horse was turned out wrapped nose to tail in fly-gear that protected his coat from the sun as well as flies. Worked great. Coat stayed dark.

Going to more extremes, when I was in college, I had a friend who was top in the halter circuit with her black QH mare. That mare had a coat like a seal! My friend covered the indoor stall with black fabric to keep light out, took out the light bulbs and only let the mare out to pasture or worked her outside after sunset. The mare was brought in before sunrise. She did that all year long --the horse never saw light —except what was in the show ring or indoor area -but thinking about it, my friend may have used the indoor with the lights off --that and daily grooming with all kinds of mysterious products made that coat unbelievably beautiful. Of course the horse was well put together, but all that effort sure made her stand out in a ring. Lots of work, At the time I thought it was weird, but looking back, it was one way she could stand out in a show ring of beautiful horses. . .

[Simkie]

Are you supplementing copper AND zinc? @JB shouldn’t they be supplemented together??

[JB]

@Simkie

Are you supplementing copper AND zinc? @JB shouldn’t they be supplemented together??

Usually when one is low, they’re both low because of their relationship. But I’ve seen some tests what show copper is fine and zinc is low, and vice versa.

But yes, I missed that it’s just Cu that’s been added, and usually that’s not the whole story. The 3 work together (well, manganese is in the mix too but that’s usually not an issue), affecting the bioavailability of all of them. So if Zn is too low (or too high), Cu absorption is negatively affected (and vice versa with high/low Cu)

[Marla_100]

My black horse story, again:

My born silvery, mousy, black filly started fading here in the Florida sun. Eventually she was an icky buckskin color by

mid-summer every year. She was always on great feed, hay, supplements, etc. but still faded quickly UNTIL I started feeding

some Alfalfa Hay. For the last 3-4 years she’s been on at least 50% alfalfa and she has stayed a glossy, black, NON-

FADING BLACK still out 24/7 in Florida sun. She rarely gets other supplements now so I know it’s not that. It’s the

Alfalfa hay, no doubt about it. If your horse can tolerate alfalfa, it’s worth a try. because it sure turned her fading off.

[Angela_Freda]

@Foxglove

When we showed regularly, horse was turned out wrapped nose to tail in fly-gear that protected his coat from the sun as well as flies. Worked great. Coat stayed dark.

Going to more extremes, when I was in college, I had a friend who was top in the halter circuit with her black QH mare. That mare had a coat like a seal! My friend covered the indoor stall with black fabric to keep light out, took out the light bulbs and only let the mare out to pasture or worked her outside after sunset. The mare was brought in before sunrise. She did that all year long --the horse never saw light —except what was in the show ring or indoor area -but thinking about it, my friend may have used the indoor with the lights off –that and daily grooming with all kinds of mysterious products made that coat unbelievably beautiful. Of course the horse was well put together, but all that effort sure made her stand out in a ring. Lots of work, At the time I thought it was weird, but looking back, it was one way she could stand out in a show ring of beautiful horses. . .

I don’t think light bulbs will fade a coat will they?

[Foxglove]

As I said, this was years ago when I was in college --and I thought my stable friend was a bit obsessive – but to answer your question --YES -artificial light causes fading. Here’s a link (did a quick Google search)

https://www.archivalmethods.com/blog/light-damage/

[Texarkana]

Fly sheet?

[Pennywell_Bay]

@Angela Freda

I don’t think light bulbs will fade a coat will they?

Yeah- covering light bulbs is overkill. Ultraviolet sunlight oxidizes the melanin in hair to make it “colorless”, orangey, blondish https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17728939

Florescent lights emit a SMALL amount of UV light. I work in them 9-10 hours a day, as do many many other dark haired people, and I certainly do not look like 9th grade me dosed in Sun-In and orange

[Texarkana]

Clairol works great for manes and tails… just saying.

[mmeqcenter]

@JB

Nobody will (or should) tell you that getting the copper and zinc up will stop bleaching. Sun bleaches things, and if the horse is genetically a fading horse, he’s still going to bleach.

Getting the cu/zn up in some reasonable balance for that horse will reduce it. Not stop it. I can tell you my black horse used to turn buckskin. Now, he’s just reddish in all the places the sun is the worst

You can try a bump in the copper and zinc and see what happens next year (the darker the horse, the more copper required for an optimally healthy coat over and above what the body functions need), or just know that fading horses fade no matter what you do. If you’ve minimized it as much as you can, then you’ve optimized his nutrition and that’s all you can do.

Agreed.
I started my bay mare on Copper and Zinc last year, right before our second summer in Florida. First summer (no Cu/Zn supplementation) she turned about buckskin. Last summer she still faded, but waaaaaaaaaay less, probably about 40% of what she’d faded the first summer. This year I’m pretty sure she’s even darker than last summer, but is definitely not as dark as she was in Ohio over the winters (very little turnout, and even when out was blanketed).

[J-Lu]

The zinc is fairly high here, Simkie. Yes ,JB, I’ve been told that copper will fix all sorts of issues here on COTH! I’m using the product Simkie suggested multiple times.

I don’t care about the bleaching. I just wanted to report that I followed some peoples’ advice and bleaching still occurred.

@Marla 100 , he gets really good alfalfa in the winter/spring when the grass is declined (and the follicles were growing). He’d be faaaaaat if I fed alfalfa all the time (and I’d be broke!).

[J-Lu]

@Texarkana

Fly sheet?

I wonder if it is too hot and humid here in NC for a fly sheet. I don’t know, but I think a horse would be miserable in one here.

[JB]

@J-Lu

The zinc is fairly high here, Simkie. Yes ,JB, I’ve been told that copper will fix all sorts of issues here on COTH! I’m using the product Simkie suggested multiple times.

I don’t care about the bleaching. I just wanted to report that I followed some peoples’ advice and bleaching still occurred.

If anyone ever said “copper will fix all sorts of issues”, they were wrong It can, and fixing what is usually high iron, and low cu/zn, can fix all sorts of things like chronic scratches/rain rot, and inappropriate bleaching. Nobody should be telling you it will stop bleaching - maybe it did for their horse (but I always wonder about that) - but IF that is the issue for most of the fading you’re getting, then it will help. Help, not eliminate.

When I was using fly sheets, the only one I ever had luck with was the white Rambo FlyBuster. It was stiff, so tented well, and white which was a bonus for the dark horses. The holes are big enough to encourage air flow. My black horse was cooler to the touch than the bays he was pastured with. It still had issues - rubbing mane where the neck seamed into the body, and as with any of those, if a giant fly got under it, well…

[Simkie]

Actually, simkie suggested that you try a half dose of copper AND a half dose of zinc. Since you were certain the copper was high enough in your area, and the iron wasn’t a problem, I’m not really sure why you chose to just try copper and not zinc.

There’s just so much we don’t get yet about nutrition and can’t explain on a spreadsheet. I still hold it would be worthwhile to give copper AND zinc a shot. Wouldn’t it be cool if it worked? It’s cheap, the risk is low. And if it doesn’t work, you can come back here and say nyah-nyah-nyah! :lol:

[JB]

@J-Lu

I have friends at a nearby Lusitano farm who also tried Ukulele this year to prevent bleaching, we will compare notes.

Short of never exposing the horse to any UV light, or the genetics of a non-fading horse, there’s no “prevent bleaching”

I’m curious, if you’re up to it, to know the fe/cu/zn numbers of the forage, and how much Cu you added. The more numbers we can see as they relate to real world situations, the better ideas we get.