Andalusian/ Lusitano crossed with TB?

[Gwyneth]

How do Andalusians/ Lusitanos crossed with a TB usually turn out? I’ve always been drawn to Andalusians and Lusitanos over traditional warmbloods. I’ve been pondering the idea of possibly breeding my thoroughbred with the hopes of getting a decent prospect for dressage. This is more just daydreaming really, but I want to know if it might be an interesting possibility or just downright stupid. Her pedigree isn’t anything special, she is out of a racebred thoroughbred and by a local appendix stallion. I’ve had several people (including my FEI coach) ask if I’ve ever considered breeding her.

I have been showing third level and schooling 4th with my mare. She has the temperament and personality that I love: hot, sensitive, and curious. She is super willing and tries her heart out for me, but still has enough sass to keep things interesting.

Conformationally, I would like for her to have a slightly shorter back (although it does come in handy for lateral suppleness) and a slightly more open throatlatch/ a wider space between her jaw and atlas/ axis. She is a little tight in the throat area and consequently can find it a little hard to stay on the vertical. I have attached a picture of my mare, but apparently I don’t have many decent conformation pictures of her, so the one I posted is a few years old and before I got her (where she was trained as a jumper).

I want my next horse to be able to compete at the FEI level, but I also want to be able to just go out on a trail ride and have fun.

All opinions would be appreciated.

[Scribbler]

It’s a nice cross. IME they come out looking quite Iberian. I think a TB with good uphill build would cross best.

[exvet]

I bred my TB mare (stout built mare with a lot of bone and good feet) to an Andalusian stallion twice. Both times I sold the foal at weaning. I felt both turned out quite nice with a lot of ability. I also like their minds. The mare was intended to be bred to a welsh cob stallion that had been imported but it turned out his semen did not ship well and he was sterile the second year. I purchased her with that specific welsh cob stallion in mind but ended up breeding her to my friend’s stallion. I would have continued the cross had that been the intent of my breeding program.

[2tempe]

Funny, I was lucky to have a schoolmaster - shown thru PSG some years ago. He was a TB, unraced, lovely brain, great work ethic. A bit long in the back so the collection was harder for him, but competitive regionally through 4th and got me some miles at PSG. Now I have a lusitano - Brave as can be, the iberian brain is a little different and sometimes he just tries tooooo hard. But love him to pieces. Showing Intermediare. The two most fun horses I ever rode. There are differences between the Lusi and the Andi - back when the stud books or whatever were split, the Lusi stayed as more of a working horse and the Andi’s bred to be flashier movers. You can generally see a difference in the gaits. But in any event, look for a stallion that has been shown in FEI dressage and has the kind of movement you would prefer.

Like this guy: (I have no connection). Love him. http://www.superiorequinesires.com/s…Alter-Real-758

[Foxtrot_s]

They all seem to have extra ‘presence’, that I’ve seen.

[Gwyneth]

Temperament wise, is there a significant difference between Andalusians and Lusitanos? Are there any “big name” stallions that are typically used for dressage (like there are certain warmblood stallions that seem to continually appear in many of the FEI horses)?

[2tempe]

Some things you read say the Andi is calmer and the Lusi bolder. I only have some anecdotal evidence based on my own Lusi and and another 4 at our barn. One of the two andalusians is a bit spooky or quirky. I can truthfully say that mine has not spooked ever in the 3+ years I’ve had him. In addition to Rubi, (see link above) there was a thread a while ago on stallion options:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/forum/discussion-forums/sport-horse-breeding/10056330-cross-with-a-lusitano.

There is one mentioned in the article “Dragao” who was recently approved i think by Oldenburg. Another woman who is in Brazil has a stallion Zingaro who showed at Tryon this year. She is, I think, eventually relocating to the states, but also has many contacts here.

[Gwyneth]

Does anyone here have/ know of any offspring by Bariloche JGR?
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallion.php?Bariloche-775

Does he tend to sire specific traits in his foals?

Rubi AR is certainly stunning, but for some reason I just don’t feel as taken with him. Don’t know why. What traits does he tend to throw/ improve?

[vineyridge]

Just remember that when you breed a hybrid from two dissimilar parents, you might end up with foal designed by a committee.

[ecileh]

I have an Andalusian/TB cross mare that I hunt. She is short-coupled with good bone and enough mane and tail for three horses. Amazing brain.

Gait wise she’s a bit choppy with a lot of knee action at the trot until she kicks into what I call the “Tunie Shuffle”, which is a whole different gear that is virtually impossible to post, but is very comfortable and ground-covering. I’ve never ridden a truly gaited horse, so I have no idea if this is an actual thing, or if it’s unique to my mare, but I am told that there is a lot of high-knee action going on when it happens. I can confirm this because I can actually see the motion in my peripheral vision.

Temperamentally, she is unflappable in the hunt field (literally had a hound body-check her in the hocks hard enough to jolt us forward and she merely flicked an ear) but a little squirrely in the ring. She is thoughtful, though. You can convince her if you give her time to process. Not as personable/cuddly as my TB/Perch mare, but we have an arrangement.

It’s a not a breeding that I would seek out, but this mare is worth her weight in gold.

Shaggy Coggins photo attached for conformation purposes. [ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“medium”,“data-attachmentid”:10269028}[/ATTACH]

[is_V]

@Gwyneth

Does anyone here have/ know of any offspring by Bariloche JGR?
http://www.superiorequinesires.com/stallion.php?Bariloche-775

Does he tend to sire specific traits in his foals?

Rubi AR is certainly stunning, but for some reason I just don’t feel as taken with him. Don’t know why. What traits does he tend to throw/ improve?

Rubi AR is the most successful Lusitano stallion in the world, and I would say one of the most important Lusitanos in history. He is the first non-warmblood stallion to enter the stallion rankings of the WBFSH for the discipline of dressage, sitting in #41 in the world. He has a lot of offspring competing internationally and many of them are in Grand Prix level. His son Coroado just competed at the WEG in Tryon. Other notable sons are Beirao, Douro AR, Fenix de Tineo, Gaviao dos Cedros and Coronel AR. Rubi himself was a very successful Grand Prix horse representing Portugal.
Rubi´s progeny is known for their amazing work ethic, rideability and functionality.

http://www.teamrubi.com/horses/rubi-ar/

Bariloche JGR is owned by the same people as Rubi AR. He is also a successful Grand Prix horse and recently represented Portugal at WEG Tryon. He has outstanding bloodlines and type, and consistently transmits size. His progeny are still very young.

http://www.teamrubi.com/horses/bariloche-jgr/

[is_V]

@Gwyneth

Temperament wise, is there a significant difference between Andalusians and Lusitanos? Are there any “big name” stallions that are typically used for dressage (like there are certain warmblood stallions that seem to continually appear in many of the FEI horses)?

Yes, temperament wise there are significant differences. The breeds are like distant cousins and took different paths since the 15th century. The PRE tends to be calmer and even heavier. The Lusitano has more fire in him and is a much sensitive horse.

Lusitano stallions typically used for Dressage:

• Rubi Ar
• Bariloche JGR
• Spartacus
• Escorial (my personal favorite)
• Giraldo MVL (by Rubi AR)
• Equador MVL
• Dragao das Figueiras (approved in Oldenburg)
• Peralta

If you are in the USA there is a really top option for you in Monterrey, Mexico. A stallion named Embuçado SS. I know this stallion in person, and the owners are amazing people as well as breeders. Embuçado SS was approved as a stallion in Portugal and won numerous titles and gold medals there. The quality of his offspring is impressive and he is also a four stars recommended stallion with the Portuguese association. He is half brother of the amazing Equador MVL and has solid dressage bloodlines. This video is when he was very young, he is now 9yo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSl6…ature=youtu.be

The 2018 WBFSH Studbook Rankings, with the Lusitano in #8:
http://www.wbfsh.org/files/Studbooks…final_2018.pdf

The stallion Alcaide did an amazing job at Tryon and was classified for the Freestyle. However I don´t know a lot about him as a sire. He is a grandson of Novilheiro, a horse who did Grand Prix Dressage and then was a Grand Prix jumper with John Withaker. I own a 5yo grandson of Novilheiro and the athletic ability of this line is amazing.

[weixiao]

My mum had a lovely Andalusian/tb mare. A touch on the hotter side but a good brain and very athletic. Unfortunately, I don’t have photos and I was too young to remember her breeding (it was probably 20 years ago) but she was a great mare and it is a cross I’d definitely consider in a favorable light in the future.

[Fadjurneeka]

Definitely a cross I would love to see more of. As we transition from doing Arabians and Half Arabians to limiting those and instead doing TB X I definitely am considering this cross. I have seen several I quite like.