The NS Turtle Tactio relieves bar pressure and acts more on the tongue.
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The Fager bit I am trying has an option for bar relief…https://fagerbitsusa.com/collections/fixed-ring/products/greta-titanium-fixed-rings
It’s USEF/FEI legal (at least the Gustav is, which is the exact same bit in the sweet iron).
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Bombers Ultra Comfy snaffle is what I’m using for a horse with sharp bars. I also have a HS dynamic RS single joint but he seems to prefer the extra bar relief with the Bombers.
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Have you tried one of the Myler style/tongue relief bits? I had a devout head tosser and the one with two copper rollers and a low port really made a difference for me. Those are not too expensive compared to the OG Mylers: https://agadors.com/collections/tongue-relief
The tossing is almost completely gone, so I suspect she really does like the port+barrel better than any of the broken snaffles (and i tried many) I ever tried her in. Could be a low palate, a fat tongue, who knows?
Hadn’t tried the Myler…had tried it on other horses in the past, but never had a good response, so it wasn’t high on my list to try yet.
But, I will report that she is seeming to like the Fager Greta bit! Yay! It’s the same mouthpiece as the Gustav (which is USEF and FEI legal), but is titanium instead of the sweet iron. With her response to the NS brand I didn’t want to risk the sweet iron. Fager had suggested the Maria…which is double joint. When I had tried other double joints she seemed more fussy…so I went with the Greta, which is similar to the Maria but in a single joint.
I’ve ridden her in the Fager all week…she’s been getting better and better in the contact all week. The first two days she was really leaning/heavy in the hand, but that seems to be getting much better…and now is just the typical baby horse occasionally leaning when she is trying to sort her balance. We are now getting periods where she is very nice and soft in the contact.
With the Fager we’ve had zero rubbing or stopping…and she’s not tossing her head either. I’ve also seen less sneezing/coughing in the beginning (yesterday was only 1 mild sneeze and done…where before with the NS bits it was dramatic sneezes causing her to stop and cough with her head all the way stretched out).
Fingers crossed it all stays this way (and I’m not eating my words next week!).
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I have had equally good results with Fager bits, IF the bit works with my hands.
The horses seem to like the taste and feel of titanium, they enjoy the lightness of the bits, and they appreciate the innovative designs.
Ok just bought a bit from this company after you mentioned the company. I got the comfy barrel hanging cheek for my slightly thick tongued/low palate OTTB who has been fussy in a double joint Stubben Wings. The price even with overseas shipping is half of a Myler.
Oh I’m so glad to hear that! It’s a really great company and I will sing it from the rooftops!
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Just thought I’d check in. Used the Korsteel bit for the first time today and I’m sad to say he shook his head and stopped to scratch his mouth just as often as with the NS. Time to call the vet. Whatever is bothering him is mysterious at this point but I feel pretty sure it’s not the bit alone. I plan to ride again Tuesday and will try either just riding him in a halter or digging up my rubber mouthed bit again.
Sigh!
You might try changing his bridle in various ways. Take off the flash (if you use one), loosen the noseband, check to make sure the browband isn’t pulling the crown piece into the backs of the ears, etc. You could also try putting a full fly mask on him (one that includes a nose-piece like the long Cashel Quiet Ride).
Nose-rubbing is such a non-specific “symptom” I’m not sure what a vet would diagnose.
Ugh…bummer @oldernewbie! It is so frustrating…and takes so long to sort out.
I am happy to report that my mare is still loving her Fager bit! Still no stopping or rubbing and only an occasional (reasonable) sneeze. The past two weeks we had zero head tossing…this week we have a very tiny bit of head tossing, but she is also cycling…and it’s really minimal. She’s a bit tight in her back, so I think once we are past this heat cycle that will settle again.
She is also in a much better frame - a nice training level frame, where she isn’t pulling down or evading. And, she is much more forward and happy to motor around! So I am sticking with this bit! Also, she willingly takes the bit when I bridle her…with the NS bits she was actually giving me an attempted nip when trying to bridle. The Fager she just opens her mouth and is quiet while I do up all the bridle straps.
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Attempted some of this yesterday. Took off his brand new professionally fitted bridle and put on his old bridle with the Korsteel bit. A little less head shaking but he was still very unhappy. I don’t normally ride him with a tight flash or cavesson. I did ride him once a few weeks ago with a halter only - he was kinda confused but no headshaking.
The headshaking is side to side, not up and down as they say often happens with photic headshaking. Plus we were not outside - just in the kind of low light indoor.
Vet said he didn’t need his teeth done in the spring. I’m very sorry I didn’t just have them done anyhow.
So, plan to get the vet out ASAP and have him check his mouth thoroughly. Something is going on in there - this is a horse that is usually calm under saddle but who also lets you know in no uncertain terms if something is bothering him. I’m sure he is trying to tell me something.
Will try riding him in a halter tomorrow just for kicks.
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Another data point/update: a barn buddy loaned me her bitless bridle and I rode with it today. No dramatics, one tiny head shake that could easily have been to shake off a fly. Horse was generally relaxed and more like himself. Vet coming 9/20 so we’ll see what he finds. Whew!
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The NS bits are all copper alloys aren’t they? I’d try something that’s either stainless steel or titanium. Little known fact but some horses are allergic to copper. A basic stainless steel bit or ideally titanium bits (eg fager) can be a great start, but make sure there are no copper rollers etc.
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Another update: vet floated horse’s teeth last Wednesday. I have ridden him twice now with his new bit and he has been fine. I’ve taken to warming him up in the bitless and then swapping to the new bridle. Will keep this up for a couple more rides and then just use the new bridle after that.
Moral of the story: get the horse’s teeth done on their normal schedule, even if vet tells you the teeth aren’t that bad and you don’t really need it.
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Fager has a nice full cheek mullen mouth sweet iron bit…they call it “Harry” It is thin too…
One of my horses just graduated from a fullcheek, single joint snaffle to a Fager “Fredric” baby fulmer titanium (double jointed) and i’m telling you, it’s like i got a horse many months more advanced in training! He was so soft, so responsive and bendy. Pretty amazing. The whole lesson i couldn’t get over what a big difference a little bit made~
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Those sound like really comfortable bits! The trend lately is to jointed bits almost exclusively. I, personally, get much better results with mullen mouth. What I generally ride in is a mullen mouth Pelham, with the curb reins left a little loose. I call that my emergency brakes. Never had to use it, probably because the horse was so comfortable and responsive.
Well…back to square one again.
So back in Sept, she was a bit tight in her back. That turned into being really angry when I got on and sore in her back. I was going to be doing some travel most of October, so I gave her time off…got some bodywork, did some massage/pemf and surpass on the area she was sore. Also changed saddles as I think she filled out and the one that had been fitted to her wasn’t really fitting anymore. Got the saddle fitter out and fixed that issue. Back soreness solved. She was going really well.
Had the dentist out and he floated her…nothing unusual.
Now she is back to big head tosses in the very beginning of the ride. Or in the middle if you try to canter. The one day she must have pinched herself because she tossed her head, but then had a very sharp reaction and her left ear went totally out sideways and she stopped, like she had been stung.
So I tried the HS Duo eggbutt since I figured there was no way anything with that would pinch her! First few rides okay but then it got better up to yesterday’s ride with almost zero head toss. Today, major head toss and acting like something stung her. Only really happens when you first go walk to trot…or trot to canter. Also back to the sneezes in the very beginning. But nothing the rest of the ride…and no rubbing. No head tossing or sneezing any other time.
Calling the vet on Monday to come watch her go…figure the vet can do some sedation and get a really good look in her mouth to make sure we aren’t missing anything. She’s actually feeling fussier since the dentist saw her, which seems counter to what it should be.
I swear my horses are competing for who can come up with the most unusual or expensive medical issue…my yearling…this mare’s sister (who is growing up in another state) came down with fever and loose manure and is in the vet clinic on IV antibiotics for suspected PHF. But she perked up with the antibiotics, so hopefully we caught it early enough.
Editing to add…as I think more, she was actually pretty good before the dentist did her…she’s only been super fussy again since the float. So I wonder if there is something since the float causing her an issue.
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Dredging up this thread… My horse has been in a NS bit for years. In the last few months he has become really fussy and has begun to almost drool while riding. Then this weekend his lips were swollen when I got done. I rode him bittless for two days and the swelling was gone. Rode him yesterday in the NS bit again and he was having the same globs of spit, and head tossing and his lips swelled again. I think he has developed an allergy to the metal. Vet is going to peek in his mouth tomorrow but then I think I’m going to order a titanium bit. I don’t think he’ll like plastic so trying that first.
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Do you clean the bit with Diamond Paste? Asking because that provoked the exact same reaction in my gelding.
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