Another (bleeping) Saddle thread: saddles with: shallow long rails, decent tree breadth, and flatter tree?

[Allusion]

I’m in fricking saddle purgatory. I hate saddle shopping. So very much. Please help a gal out?

I had an independent saddle fitter out this weekend as I had a hunch that my saddle wasn’t working well for my gelding or me - spoiler alert, I was right. (Also worth noting it was “fitted” by another fitter less than a month ago… that’s a whole other rant.)

My gelding is a 4 year old Andalusian, so he is in his gangly teenager phase. Firstly, I am hoping (ha) to find a saddle whose tree matches his skeletal conformation so that I can “just” adjust the width and panels as he changes muscling and shape - is that reasonable, or a pipe dream?

Secondly… my fitter says that he needs a fairly shallow “rail angle” (as indicated by the yellow, orange, and blue arrows - yellow is a long, shallow rail angle like he needs, blue is too short and steep), and a tree that has decent breadth (indicated by the green arrow) - and is flat through the back, not curvy.

It’s also worth mentioning that I’m a recent H/J transplant with short stumpy legs, I tend to love a short iron…

While the fitter is independent, and will fit any brand, she only stocks saddles made in the UK, and only believes in wool flocking (which I understand.)

The saddles I tried:

• Symphony Sapphire: my gelding went SUPER in this saddle, he was quiet with his head (he is normally very active, still learning contact) and was more willing to relax through his back as I’ve ever felt. However… while I was “okay” comfort wise, it certainly wasn’t the most comfortable saddle I’ve ever sat in, and I felt like it was too wide for my anatomy

• Black Country something or other (looked it up, it’s the Bellissima): HATED it. Felt like I was straddling a barrel.

• Loxley Dressage monoflap: HATED it. Felt like I was straddling a barrel, again.

• Bliss Paramour Dressage: my gelding went second best in this, I liked it second best as well, but it was like the seat was digging into the back of my thigh??

• DK Liberty: I had this on trial from a saddle shop, I LOVED riding in it and my gelding felt really good as well, but the fitter said that the rails were too steep and the tree was a bit too curvy for him.

• Custom Icon Flight: this is the saddle I currently own, I LOVE riding in it, but 1) the blocks are too large and are pushing me to the back of the seat, and 2) it isn’t the right fit for my gelding.

My wish list:

• monoflap/close contact. I hate feeling like I’m a mile above my horse
• good leather: I have become accustomed to a certain standard of calf or buffalo, I can’t go back to grain leather
• I have short, stumpy legs, and love a short iron, so I think an angled knee block rather than thigh block is going to be best
• narrow twist: I know, I know, EVERYone says this.

I am not against non-UK brands, at all. I love me a French saddle, but hate the non-adjustability of most of them. So feel free to suggest non-UK brands!

I friggin hate this with a burning passion.

If anyone wants to create a truly adjustable saddle, I will pay top dollar for it. Honestly.

Many, many thanks in advance!!!

[Allusion]

[CanteringCarrot]

I had basically the same requirements a few years ago with my then 5 year old Andalusian and a Fairfax Gareth (monoflap, wool flocked, good leather) worked for us. I just parted with it within the last year when he was 8 since he did change quite dramatically and my preferences changed too. It served us well though.

[Allusion]

Thank you so much, I will look into it!!! May I ask - how did you find the twist and seat? Was it fairly narrow and good for a slight pelvis, or was it like a lot of UK saddles where you’re on top of a barrel? Haha.

[CanteringCarrot]

I know what you mean about sitting on a barrel. I find many UK saddles to be this way, and also some German brands too. I sat in like 20 saddles before I bought my current one. The twist on the Gareth isn’t super narrow, but it was doable for me. I think it’s “moderate” maybe.

I feel like there is more than the twist to consider, I’ve felt some odd things with dressage saddles. I’m so picky about them.

[lenapesadie]

Is the fitter recommending a hoop tree? I think, due to their shape, that many of those are gonna feel like a barrel.

[Allusion]

No, he (thankfully) doesn’t need a hoop tree Whew. Just a generous gullet.

[soloudinhere]

You might want to talk to a Custom fitter (if you have access to one) about the Icon Alpha. It has many of the features you describe and you SHOULD be able to trade your Flight in towards a new one.

[sheltona01]

The Alpha is more of a currier saddle. I have never heard of that dimension being described before and would love to know what the reasoning behind it. I am always up for learning something new. The rail angle usually refers to something different. Basically how the rails surface is angled.

[Allusion]

@sheltona01 The saddle fitter described the term “rails” as the portion that connects the pommel to the seat of the saddle. I agree with you that I have only heard the term “rails” as in the angle of the gullet rails.
The rationale behind that angle was described to me as being important to match the angle of the wither/depth of the wither. I’ll attach a photo that hopefully shows what I’m doing a very poor job of explaining…

The yellow line is the “rail angle” that my saddle fitter was describing as having to match that of the saddle, as shown. My close contact jumping saddle has a fairly similar angle, but could be longer (it’s a tad too short) - whereas the dressage saddle pictured has an angle that is too steep and too short.

[sheltona01]

Ahh, I think I know what they are trying to describe. Where the rails attach to the tree point but not the length of the rail. That make sense to me. Different placement for different types of horses.

[Allusion]

@sheltona01 Yes, exactly. It makes sense to me, as it creates a pivot point especially if the tree is the wrong shape, but it’s a pain in the arse that it’s just another angle that needs to be “just so.”

[foggythistle]

Personally, I would want to slide the dressage saddle back a few inches. In the pic, it looks like the points will be coming right down onto his shoulder blade/muscles. That should bring the front of the saddle down a little and change its balance and make it a little more level. Right now, (imho) it’s a little high in front.

[Allusion]

Totally fair, but the angles still don’t match

[foggythistle]

But it would be a little closer.

To check saddle balance, I usually hang on a fence rail and let the saddle balance itself. That’s the position the saddle wants to be in on the horse. If you try to put it someplace else, it will try to move. Check your angles on a saddle that is sitting on its balance point.

[sheltona01]

That is actually not true about sitting the saddle on the fence. You are most likely sitting it on the webbing which is not always going to sit the saddle in the same balance as the tree.

[sheltona01]

Which saddle was the one he liked the best?

[Allusion]

@sheltona01 He went best in the Symphony Sapphire, which I thought was “ok” for me, but not great. He went really well in the DK Freedom, which I LOVED. He was unhappy in the Black Country and Loxley saddles.

[Allusion]

@foggythistle you can see the angles though, doesn’t matter if you rotate it

[sheltona01]

What brand is that? Never heard of it and I tried a Google search.