Another cat diet question - diabetic version

[Pleased_as_Punch]

I have the $$$, access to fancy pet stores and an Amazon prime membership…just tell me which cat food to buy!

11 yo cat diagnosed with diabetes today after presenting with weight loss and increased urination. I didn’t get any numbers, but vet stated glucose in urine was elevated and that we caught it very early. She suggested making dietary changes and see if we can control it that way.

She gave me a list of foods to try but admitted the list is outdated.

Does anyone have a diabetic cat that they are controlling successfully via diet? What are you feeding?

I have looked at the carb % analysis on catinfo.org and some other sites but am still a bit lost. Guaranteed analysis vs. as-fed vs. dry matter??? Some of the stuff on the web and on my vets list is recalled, too. I don’t really need to understand the nuts and bolts of it, I just want a low/no carb cat food!

Currently this cat eats 1/2 cup of Purina One Salmon & Tuna dry and 1/2 can (1.5 oz) of Fancy Feast pate (either chicken or a fish flavor, nothing with gravy or whatever). I realize now that the cat is over-fed and that I will most likely be switching to a mostly or all wet diet.

Also note that I would like to still offer a dry food, even if in much reduced quantity as the diabetic’s cat sister prefers dry to wet and a sprinkling might help to entice her to eat the wet. And I don’t want to separate the cats to eat/feed separate diets if I can help it.

[Shiaway]

It’s really important to get off the dry food. If you have to use a little sprinkle on the wet food that’s ok but just a little sprinkle.

If you really want to get the cat off insulin then you need to stick with certain kinds of canned food. I know some will say fancy feast classics are ok and maybe they are for a normal healthy cat but I would stick with only 95% meat cans.

That means Evo, Nature’s Variety, Earthborn has one I think, Weruva has some but they have a ton of fish and I don’t like to feed that much fish to my cats, BFF maybe? Yes most of these foods have been recalled. At this point in time it is nearly impossible to find a food that has not been recalled. It depends on why they were recalled and how many times they’ve been recalled.

If you have the money I would look into Stella & Chewy’s. It’s raw but freeze dried so more palatable for fussy kitties. You can feed it dry although of course it’s best to feed it wet for cats. I started my girls out on it dry and then slowly introduced water over several days/weeks so they would get used to it (they prefer dry food). There are no grains or fruits and veggies. It’s put the HPP and every batch is tested via an independent lab so it would be highly unlikely to have a recall. The draw back is it’s expensive. ~$20 for a bag which will last you about one week for two 8 pound cats.

If they don’t like it or it’s too expensive then you might look into a homemade raw diet via catinfo.org. Good luck with your diabetic kitty. I’ve talked to several people who have gotten their cats off insulin via. diet so it can be done.

[HealingHeart]

You can also Try real protein, like turkey breast lunch meats… Boiled Chicken etc…

[Marshfield]

Evo 95% meat canned is a good one. Best thing is to get rid of all dry food.

[wendy]

the best way to determine the carb content of a diet is to calculate the % of calories coming from carbs. Admittedly this requires math, and formulas, and sometimes some guesswork when companies don’t report sufficient info.

Fancy feast classic chicken provides 6% of calories from carbs
95% EVO duck provides of 5% of calories from carbs
Hound n Gatos trout provides 5% of calories from carbs

any dry food will provide more carbs- even ones that are high in protein. For example, EVO herring cat food, probably one of the lowest carbs out there, provides 11% of calories from carbs.

raw diets- primal chicken n salmon is only 3% calories from carbs. Nature’s variety chicken provides 8% of calories from carbs. Stella n chewy doesn’t seem to make wet raws for cats, and you need wet food for cats.

[Liberty]

I controlled my cat’s diabetes solely by diet. NO dry food, and only canned grain-free, which was primarily Fancy Feast Classic (only the “Classic” pate varieties are grain-free, so steer clear of the other FF varieties). Other brands to feed for some variety are Wellness (the grain-free varieties), BG (Before Grain), and a few others.

Some good cat food info here (also see the sidebar links to nutrition info, including for diabetes):
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods

I also got a lot of great guidance and advice on this Yahoo list group:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Felinediabetes/?yguid=295756454

[Lucassb]

I have maintained my diabetic cat with diet alone for more than 7 years now; a substantial number of them can get into remission and stay there if you are really diligent about their diets. However, that almost certainly means eliminating dry food from their diet. Sorry, I know that isn’t what you want to hear (and it wasn’t what I wanted to hear either, as both of my cats were dry food addicts and hated canned food.) But it is what it is.

There is quite a lot of very good information at www.felinediabetes.com. They have a very active BB with some very helpful posters who offer advice on everything from home glucose monitoring to handling hypo episodes and figuring out insulin dosing.

If you decide to post there, be aware that they are very adamant about diet for the most part… you probably won’t find support for feeding dry food there. (Ask me how I know this.) However, if you absolutely MUST feed dry… I would recommend a food called Young Again. It is a zero carb dry. Expensive, but I know people who have had some success with it.

http://www.youngagainpetfood.com/10browse.asp?category=cats&ProductCode=92100

[Pleased_as_Punch]

Yes both cats are dry food addicts. I’m now feeding 1/4 c Orijen Cat and Kitten which is 17% carb and then 3 oz of a Fancy Feast variety than catinfo.com says is 1% carb. I crunched the numbers and think (if my math is right) this comes to about 6% carb overall.

I do want to move off the dry and it would be nice if they liked a higher quality wet…but this is better than what he was eating and both cats like it!

[texang73]

Here’s a comprehensive list of wet cat foods that has carbs amounts listed:
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/FoodChartPublic9-22-12.pdf

Good info on feline diabetes:
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

[wendy]

Yes both cats are dry food addicts. I’m now feeding 1/4 c Orijen Cat and Kitten which is 17% carb and then 3 oz of a Fancy Feast variety than catinfo.com says is 1% carb. I crunched the numbers and think (if my math is right) this comes to about 6% carb overall

the dry food is contributing 5 g of carbs per meal vs. 1 g of carbs per meal from the wet-thus, the meal is around 200 kcal, with 24% of calories coming from carbs. I would say that is way too high for a diabetic cat.
Gradually cut back on the dry and increase the wet until the dry is gone.

[Pleased_as_Punch]

Wendy (or anyone else in the know) - I don’t see how you’re getting 24% of calories coming from carbs. I’m sure you’re right but I really want to understand it. I’m laughably bad at math. Would you be able to explain it? I’ll share why I was thinking I was feeding about 6% carbs.

I feed 32 grams (that’s what 1/4 c weighs) of the 17% carb food. 32 x .17 = 5.44%

And 85 grams (3 oz) of the 1% carb food. 85 x .01 = .85%

5.44 + .85 = 6.29. So where did I go wrong?

[Shiaway]

Wendy,

Stella & Chewy’s raw food for cats if freeze-dried. It’s nothing at all like dry food. You are supposed to add water to it. It’s superior to the other raw diets IMO because 1) it lacks any fruits or veggies, it’s just muscle meat, organ meat, bone and a little bit of pumpkin seed for fiber plus pre/pro biotics and vit/minerals 2) the freeze-drying tends to lock in flavor and make it more tasty then frozen raw.

I have had luck with it with my cats who prefer dry food because I was able to start them out on the S&C without adding water. And they would eat it fine dry. Then I started to sprinkle a little water in and eventually I am not able to feed it completely wet.

[_Teddy]

Mine would not eat wet period, but medi-cal diabetic formula worked, he also needed insulin, which is cheaper and can be bought without a script at people pharmacies

Dry. http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/Veterinary-Products/Feline-Nutrition/Veterinary-Therapeutic-Formulas/Diabetic-Dry

Wet. http://www.royalcanin.ca/index.php/Veterinary-Products/Feline-Nutrition/Veterinary-Therapeutic-Formulas/Diabetic-Wet

[wendy]

I’ll share why I was thinking I was feeding about 6% carbs.

I feed 32 grams (that’s what 1/4 c weighs) of the 17% carb food. 32 x .17 = 5.44%

And 85 grams (3 oz) of the 1% carb food. 85 x .01 = .85%

5.44 + .85 = 6.29. So where did I go wrong?

32 grams of the 17% carb means you’re feeding around 5 g of carb- you got that. And you got that the other food is giving about 1 gram of carb. But you’re forgetting that one food is wet and one is dry, so you can’t just lump them together- if you want to calculate a “% by weight” you need to turn everything into the same thing, usually done by turning them into “dry weights”.
If you want % by dry weight, you look up how much moisture is in each food and remove it from the calculation- kibbles are usually 10% water, and canned foods are 85% water, so the dry turns into 28.8 g, and the wet turns into 12.75 g, for a grand total of 41.55 g of dry weight food that has around 6 g of carb in it, which is approximately 15% carbs dry weight. I calculated % calories from carbs=24%, which is a completely different measurement, but I prefer it- it tells you much more about the diet than % by weight. To calculate % of calories, you figure out how many grams of carbs are being provided by the diet- 6 g, in this case, how many total calories are being fed, and the conversion is easy. Each gram of carb provides 4 calories; each gram of protein provides 4 calories; each gram of fat provides 9 calories. Carnivores like cats should never be fed diets that provide more than 12% of calories from carbs, and for a diabetic cat, you want it even lower, as close to zero as you can get.

[Pleased_as_Punch]

Ah! Makes sense. Thanks Wendy. Also: the dry food taper is progressing with no setbacks thus far.

[wendy]

good to hear. Good luck. cats are so finicky- I think their diet finickyness tells us that diet is extremely important for cat health, but we can’t go by what they want to eat, just like we can’t let our ponies and ourselves eat only the things we want to eat. I’d eat nothing but donuts and potato chips myself and would die quite quickly if I let my preferences dictate diet.

Shiaway: stella n chewy is what I feed to my dogs. The dehydrated version. I like them a lot, and so do my dogs. I just can’t visualize how one rehydrates them for cats. But it’s good to hear that it can be done.

[Shiaway]

If you smush up the freeze-dried dog patties or the cat meatballs and then add some water and let it sit for a minute it turns into a disgusting looking mush. My cats still would prefer if I just let them eat it dry of course but they will eat it wet at this point. Although it looks like my super fussy one is starting to get tired of it. She’s just about impossible to feed as she will only like something for about a year or two. Other one (naturally the one who isn’t skinny) eats it no problem. argh.

[jkc313]

Go back to Dr Lisa’s catinfo.org site and use her links to %compositions of protein/fat/carbs
Keep in mind cats have virtually no carbohydrate requirement and your cat is having trouble with them, hence the diabetes. There are a few realatively low carb dry diets but they are still, I believe, at least 15% and most dry diets even DM are above 22%. Almost any canned food is better than any dry. Of course when asked what’s the best food for my cat? The first answer had better be “What she will eat”. Calculating % is a royal pain but here’s a fairly easy thing to do when reading a canned cat food label. You want no gluten, no soy, and no corn, or wheat to start. Then if the first 5 ingredients are water,meat or fish, meat or fish by products(ok for cats. Everytime they eat a mouse they eat byproducts) meat or fish meal, you probably have a food less than 5% carbs. There is some evidence beef may cause thyroid issues so I avoid it. Poultry seems to be best protein food of choice.
Since following catinfo.org 3-4 years ago, I have gotten every diabetic cat patient I have had off insulin except one who will not eat canned food no matter what we try.

[Pleased_as_Punch]

Cats (picky one and diabetic one) are now both happily eating a 100% wet food diet: a combo of Merrick Before Grain chicken and Fancy Feast Flaked Fish and Shrimp. Yeah the FF is junky but they love it and 0% carbs. Diabetic cat has put on 8 oz and is obviously feeling better. He gets his blood checked again in a couple weeks.

It was not a terrible transition: 1 instance of mild diarrhea and 1 brief hunger strike.

[Lucassb]

[QUOTE=Pleased_As_Punch;7029421]
Cats (picky one and diabetic one) are now both happily eating a 100% wet food diet: a combo of Merrick Before Grain chicken and Fancy Feast Flaked Fish and Shrimp. Yeah the FF is junky but they love it and 0% carbs. Diabetic cat has put on 8 oz and is obviously feeling better. He gets his blood checked again in a couple weeks.

It was not a terrible transition: 1 instance of mild diarrhea and 1 brief hunger strike.[/QUOTE]

Great news, well done!!!