Another fatal Pit Bull attack....

[shayaalliard]

[QUOTE=MistyBlue;7503448]
Having owned a bunch of dogs on the high risk lists, I’m also not for the highest level of BSL.

And definitely not on the national scale for any level of BSL. :no:

But BSL does have levels. It does not automatically mean an automatic ban on certain breeds. It can mean certain restrictions on them and those can be determined from state to state or even city to city or county to county.

Some different types might be requiring any of the specific breed to be speutered. Or anyone with a felony conviction or animal related citation (loose dogs, dog bites, etc) is not allowed to have those specific breeds. Or that all owners of those specific breeds are required to have their dogs microchipped and carry liability insurance.

Personally I don’t think a permit system for high risk dogs in some areas is a bad idea, but not sure how the full logistics would work. Something similar to permits needed for rabies vector wildlife or to be able to keep certain exotics. A permit that requires checks for living conditions (requiring fenced yards with decent fencing, maybe no congested conditions like large-unit apartment buildings, etc) or checks on having had previous animal related complaints/issues, or requiring an obedience certificate by a certain age, etc.

Things that would not appeal to those owners who probably aren’t the best match for a high risk breed. And then chip the permitted animals so that if any complaints/reports come in or there’s an incident or when the animal goes to a vet…the animal can be scanned to see if it’s owner has a permit to own that animal. Or landlords can request that rental applicants show proof of chip, etc. That way we wouldn’t hear so much about the untrained dogs that did horrible things. Or horrible things happening from dogs/owners that have a past of risky behavior, etc. And the ‘thugs’ could just be randomly scanned when parading around with their Status Dogs in public, dogs confiscated if not chipped. And they’d not be able to rent without proof of chip.

There’s a lot of holes in the permit idea, but it has cut down a lot on keeping Servals, Alligators, wolves/hybrids and coons out of the hands of morons. Nothing will work 100%

And it does kind of suck to even suggest a permit process because I’m not the type of person to want to legislate responsible, sane behavior. I don’t like a hand-holding government, but sometimes I dislike how many ignorant morons there are out there too. sigh[/QUOTE]

Agree completely. Such measures would go a long way to keep the breed out of the hands of the idiots that are creating the problem dogs, both via breeding nd via training or the lack thereof.

[chancellor2]

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=975154

Here you go.

[shayaalliard]

[QUOTE=Sswor;7503472]
You would own an animal as a pet that could not trust with your children? You gotta be kidding me. What’s supervision going to help? There’s multiple reports of kids getting killed by the family pit bull right in front of the parent(s). Also multiple reports that the family pit bull that killed the kid was “wonderful”–until suddenly it wasn’t.

I’ve owned terriers my whole life. Great dogs, fun dogs, but I know exactly what they are capable of. It’s inherent to the type. A pit bull terrier is a terrier bred big and powerful enough to take down large livestock animals since it’s inception, prone to biting people since it’s inception, and been killing people since it’s inception. It’s also been bred to kill other dogs since its inception. It is not appropriate to be a family pet.[/QUOTE]

I actually DO own a pet that is not trusted with children. My macaw is a sweet and social animal, but she can and will take a chunk out of a kid who bothers her. She lived here with my 6 stepkids with no issues until my divorce. They were kept separate unless supervised. I build a walk in aviary so that she had lots of kid free space. Not really that hard.

For that matter, I don’t trust my horse with kids on the ground either. She is a dream ride, but can be a major witch on the ground. Supervision, separation, no one gets hurt.

[JackieBlue]

[QUOTE=chancellor2;7504959]
If you are talking about existing Pit bulls in Denver, you are absolutely incorrect. They took a BUNCH of existing dogs who were not in trouble and put them down,.[/QUOTE]

I’ve read the statute that explains the grandfather clause. I’ve also read a lot of fear mongering on the part of extremist Pit groups. So unless you can find documentation of actual un-cities, off the radar dogs being snatched and euthanized, you’re just repeating extremist fear mongering and adding to the problem.

[JackieBlue]

[QUOTE=chancellor2;7504967]
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=975154

Here you go.[/QUOTE]

That was 2006. Way after the ban was initiated. Bring a Pit into an area where it’s banned and yes, you will be asked to remove it.

[Aggie4Bar]

Don’t look now, but a Houston (League City) mother and toddler were attacked earlier this morning. Toddler was life-flighted from the scene, condition unknown at this time. The mother, also injured, was taken away by ambulance. The dog in question was apparently a pit bull belonging to the woman’s boyfriend. She was pet-sitting when the attack occurred.

[JackieBlue]

[QUOTE=shayaalliard;7504976]
I actually DO own a pet that is not trusted with children. My macaw is a sweet and social animal, but she can and will take a chunk out of a kid who bothers her. She lived here with my 6 stepkids with no issues until my divorce. They were kept separate unless supervised. I build a walk in aviary so that she had lots of kid free space. Not really that hard.

For that matter, I don’t trust my horse with kids on the ground either. She is a dream ride, but can be a major witch on the ground. Supervision, separation, no one gets hurt.[/QUOTE]

How many times a day did you take your Macaw outside to use the bathroom? How many times a day did you take him outside for a walk or to play or exercise? Annual vet visits for vaccines? Extra vet visits for dentals or other preventive care?

Does your horse live in your house? How many times a day do you have to walk your horse or take her outside to relieve herself or otherwise potentially expose her to your or other people’s children? Do you or does your boarding facility carry liability insurance?

Sorry, but it’s FAR easier to isolate birds and horses than it is dogs when children are around. I wish it were as simple as you try to make it sound.

[WorkingDrive]

I know how this thread will continue to progress just like it progresses like every other thread when the words “pit bull” are presented.

Not defending the owners, and it’s always awful with loss of life or injury from ANy animal, but I am seeing some misinformation here:

Pit Bulls are not 130 lbs. No way. No how unless they are seriously MORBIDLY obese.

The “bigger pit bulls” are not, in fact, Pit Bulls. They are American Bullies and were produced many decades ago by introducing some Mastiff breeding into the dogs (though the diehard bully people will say the opposite.)

Now we have yet another incident in which there is a female in heat also present.

Contrary to popular belief, dogs don’t just go from friendly one day to “going berserk.” There are triggers. There are signs. Small as they may be…the only time a dog has ever just “gone berserk” is when there is an underlying issue such as a brain tumor. Even then, the dog’s seemingly normal behavior prior to undergo some nuances of change.

The dog shown in the photo? Not a Pit Bull. The dog looks like a Presa de Canario mix to me based on the size, build, and skull structure. A human was attacked. I wouldn’t care if it was a Chihuahua or a Mastiff that did the attack.

[Casey09]

So, again, which breeds should be targeted by BSL?

[S1969]

[QUOTE=WorkingDrive;7505060]
A human was attacked. I wouldn’t care if it was a Chihuahua or a Mastiff that did the attack.[/QUOTE]

Really? I bet you would care if it was you.

Guess what? My breed has never killed anyone. Call people pit bull haters, but there are a lot of facts out there also.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=Casey09;7505062]
So, again, which breeds should be targeted by BSL?[/QUOTE]

How about the top 10 on the fatally bite list - AND any mixed breeds that include those breeds.

[shayaalliard]

I actually do walk the bird, on a leash, most days. But the trick of separation for her is that she, like horses, is an attractive nuisance. People all day long at the pet store, and at my house, actively try to feed themselves to the birds. It’s not the same, but it kinda is.

I have had little exotics (birds, reptiles,raccoons) and I had friends/customers with REAL exotics. The oh so scary pitbull kinda pales when someone walks in the pet store door with a bear. If you can keep a cougar in your house and walk it for potty breaks (neighbor a block away when we were kids), a responsible owner can mange a pit bull just fine.

(By the way, I DO NOT think that bears, big cats etc are appropriate pets…but we sure got to meet some cool animals up close those years in the pet store.)

[chancellor2]

[QUOTE=S1969;7505065]
Really? I bet you would care if it was you.

Guess what? My breed has never killed anyone. Call people pit bull haters, but there are a lot of facts out there also.[/QUOTE]

By all means, tell me what breed is YOUR breed.

[chancellor2]

[QUOTE=S1969;7505068]
How about the top 10 on the fatally bite list - AND any mixed breeds that include those breeds.[/QUOTE]

Okay. So, any pit bull mix should be on the list.

My dog was a stray wandering the streets of Belmont MA. What breed is she?

[S1969]

[QUOTE=shayaalliard;7505070]
The oh so scary pitbull kinda pales when someone walks in the pet store door with a bear. If you can keep a cougar in your house and walk it for potty breaks (neighbor a block away when we were kids), a responsible owner can mange a pit bull just fine.[/QUOTE]

Well, at least two obvious issues here:

1. you need a special permit to legally keep an exotic pet; and
2. many pit bull (and other dog) owners are not responsible

And since there is no special permit to keep one, there is no way to make sure the owners are responsible.

No one on this thread argues that most pitty types ARE good dogs. (Because if they weren’t, half the people we know would have been savaged already). The problem are the ones that AREN’T. Unlike a Chihuahua, poorly bred, poorly socialized, poorly supervised pit bulls can (and do) kill people and other dogs. We know they aren’t the ONLY breed, but in fatal incidents, they are #1.

So…here we are again…at the beginning. Should we simply not care because “statistically” it’s just a few incidents? Tell that to the moms with a 2 year olds watching the news in Houston right now.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=chancellor2;7505084]
Okay. So, any pit bull mix should be on the list.

My dog was a stray wandering the streets of Belmont MA. What breed is she?[/QUOTE]

Prove that she’s not a pit bull and she won’t be on the list.

[shayaalliard]

[QUOTE=S1969;7505068]
How about the top 10 on the fatally bite list - AND any mixed breeds that include those breeds.[/QUOTE]

AVMA top ten fatality list:
10) Saint Bernard
9) Great Dane
8) Chow
7) Doberman
6) Malemute
5) Wolf/Dog Hybrid
4) Siberian Husky
3) German Shepherd
2) Rottweiler

1. Pitt bull

AKC Study on fatalities
Numbers registered No. of Fatal Attacks Breed Percentage
240,000 12 Chow Chow .705%
800,000 67 German Shepherds .008375%
960,000 70 Rottweiler .00729%
128,000 18 Great Dane .01416 %
114,000 14 Doberman .012288%
72,000 10 St. Bernard .0139%
5,000,000 60 American Pit Bull .0012%

[S1969]

[QUOTE=chancellor2;7505079]
By all means, tell me what breed is YOUR breed.[/QUOTE]

I own a Brittany. I have not researched it, but I’d challenge you to find any serious biting incident with one, and I’d be almost everything I own that one has never killed a human being.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=shayaalliard;7505091]
AVMA top ten fatality list:
10) Saint Bernard
9) Great Dane
8) Chow
7) Doberman
6) Malemute
5) Wolf/Dog Hybrid
4) Siberian Husky
3) German Shepherd
2) Rottweiler

1. Pitt bull

AKC Study on fatalities
Numbers registered No. of Fatal Attacks Breed Percentage
240,000 12 Chow Chow .705%
800,000 67 German Shepherds .008375%
960,000 70 Rottweiler .00729%
128,000 18 Great Dane .01416 %
114,000 14 Doberman .012288%
72,000 10 St. Bernard .0139%
5,000,000 60 American Pit Bull .0012%[/QUOTE]

What’s your point? That “statistically” pit bulls aren’t as dangerous even being #1? I don’t care.

Are these US statistics? Again, the 5,000,000 “registered” pit bulls? Where exactly is that number coming from when probably 90% of them aren’t registered?

Not to mention…how on earth should there be 5 million pit bulls in this country anyway - when we know that most of them are not bred to any standard or with any health checks?? Good lord…if that number is true it’s just one more reason to restrict the breeding of them.

[chancellor2]

[QUOTE=S1969;7505093]
I own a Brittany. I have not researched it, but I’d challenge you to find any serious biting incident with one, and I’d be almost everything I own that one has never killed a human being.[/QUOTE]

Pfft! Really? Have you never heard of Rage Syndrome? You wouldn’t be a very good breeder if you haven’t. I can’t believe you actually consider owning a dog where there is a disease with RAGE in the name.