If your trainer says your horse looks “terrible” then you might rethink your feeding program. I know it sounds like your trainer is being a dick, but I see horses look awful and no one tells the owner anything, obviously because it’s none of our business, but I would certainly want someone to say something and let me know. Sometimes this is actually an easy fix.
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I think you need to have a frank conversation with your trainer. If you like and respect her generally, then you need to find out what she thinks your problem is and how she thinks you should fix it. She’s obviously rattled you, and if I were you I would tell her that she has, and that you seriously want her help to solve whatever the problem is, BUT, that you don’t have unlimited funds so need to make the most efficient use of whatever help she is prepared to give you. You don’t sound so green that you can’t take direction!
And yes, absolutely what Xeroxchick says. Does the horse look not so fabulous because its nutrition program has failed over the winter?
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If you feel like you want to keep working with this trainer (maybe this was just a bad day, he’s helped you so far, etc.), then I’d say a conversation is in order.
Ask him for homework to do between lessons. What should you be working on, specifically. What exercises should you do? How will you be able to know if you’re doing those exercises correctly?
Ask him about swapping one of your lessons every once in a while for a training ride on the horse, that you will then watch and listen to him give commentary about what he’s doing and what he’s trying to achieve. I find, myself, that it’s beneficial for me to see someone else on my horse occasionally, to see them putting the horse through exercises that I often do and gauge their results, while also listening to them talk about the work.
I’d also second the advice given above to just ride, like on the trails or just bopping around, at least once a week. A fun, no-expectations, everybody having a good time ride takes a lot of stress off you as the rider and off the horse. You can just enjoy each other.
Good luck, and have fun.
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I agree, I had a trainer who got me no where and I went backwards on my green horse. I got a new trainer, after a couple lessons, we were a different pair. I was riding better, my horse was using herself properly. A good trainer will help you advance you and your horse even if its a green horse/ green rider situation. You also need someone to help build confidence in your rides because that’s one of the main things a green horse needs.
As an update: I finally was able to have a longer conversation with my trainer about this. I’m a bit conflicted about how it went.
According to my trainer, the only way to “fix” the issue is with professional training. My trainer said there was just no way to teach a green rider how to ride in the way that is needed to improve my horse. My trainer is aware of my financial situation and is willing to offer free training sessions, which is incredibly kind and I do appreciate my trainer working with me in this respect.
While the free training sessions are a nice gesture, I’m not sure it is a long term solution, unless I’m able to fund them in the near future. I have researched other barns within a feasible distance, but unfortunately I live in a large metropolitan area and I would have to sacrifice any type of real field turnout, which I know would be a hard life change for my guy. I’ve also looked into bringing another trainer in to help, but it is not allowed at my current facility.
I suppose I’m still feeling incredibly conflicted, almost to the point of wondering if my gelding would be better off in a home that would do justice by him. But I also feel like that would just be a “giving up when the times get rough” move. Sadly, still no easy answers here.
OK… but what is “the issue” that needs to be fixed? I assume he’s not trying to kill you and is safe and sound to ride.
What is your goal with this horse, or any horse? Do you have a goal, other than to simply have fun riding your nice horse?
Take a step back.
Do you enjoy riding him? Do you feel safe and comfortable on him? If yes, why would you sell him? If he’s a happy and comfortable ride he’s not giving a toot whether you are reaching his full potential.
I think I can see exactly where you are coming from and where your trainer is coming from–she’s frustrated because of his unexploited potential. Well, Big Whoop, frankly. Unless you are publicly embarrassing her with your terrible selves, it’s your horse, your time, your money. (And if you are, well, she can fire you and you can carry on doing your own thing.)
You are the grown up here… don’t get pushed into doing something you don’t want to do because someone else wants you to do things differently. Take your time, enjoy the journey at a speed you can afford and are comfortable with.
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[QUOTE=BabyBays;n10356126]
As an update: I finally was able to have a longer conversation with my trainer about this. I’m a bit conflicted about how it went.
According to my trainer, the only way to “fix” the issue is with professional training. My trainer said there was just no way to teach a green rider how to ride in the way that is needed to improve my horse.
Baloney. Is your trainer not ‘professional’? I was in the same position as you, green horse, green rider. Jack was 14 when I got him. I just wanted to learn how to ride, no showing/eventing or anything like that. Jack moved off his front forever. I was just learning how to ride. With groundwork exercises, riding exercises, and my trainer hopping on occasionally during lessons for a short time to show both my horse and me what she wanted, we were able to work through this and get Jack moving correctly. Did it take a lot of time? Yes. Was it frustrating? Yes. It took a lot of hard work for both me and the horse, but the two of us along with my trainer got the job done.
My horse looked ‘terrible’. But he was never taught to do anything different. What you are trying to do is difficult for everyone involved. It takes work and a lot of patience.
If you feel your horse has improved in certain areas, I’m sure he has. You would know better than anyone, as you spend more time with him than anyone else.
I don’t suppose this post offers much advice, but maybe it will help you to not feel so discouraged.
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^
THISX1000
How does this “Pro” not realize that it is his weekly lessons that are not giving you what you need to fix the alleged problem? :mad:
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The issue is that my horse is not using his hind end properly. As a result, he has not developed muscles as he should. While this sounds like a somewhat common issue, my trainer has told me my horse is literally in pain as a result of this.
In the more recent conversation with my trainer, I mentioned that I was happy with the progress we’ve made so far and unless this situation was an “emergency,” at which point my trainer interrupted to say, “well it is at that point.” The thought that I am in some way causing my horse pain kills me. This is why I am at the point of considering selling.
Honestly, my one goal this year was just to be able to ride outdoors (which is no easy feat with my horse). I’m perfectly fine taking my time, unless it’s truly hurting my horse. That’s where I’m feeling at a loss.
Honestly, at this point I’d seriously assess what is up with this trainer.
Because he’s not using his hind-end it’s causing him pain? Really? Does the horse seem like he’s in pain to you? If he’s in pain, I doubt that the pain is caused by his not using his hind end. (Caveat: I’m not a vet, nor a trainer). It is possible that the horse is not using his hind end because he’s in pain though. (Causality runs the other way).
Has the vet looked at your horse? Does the vet think that he’s in pain?
If the horse is in pain, he needs a vet, not a trainer. And if the trainer thinks the horse is in pain, then he should be telling you to call the vet and not to put the horse into some kind of training program.
You’re in the best place to assess how your horse feels, and how much fun you’re having. As several posters have suggested, you should think about what you want from riding, and what you can afford. And it’s no sin to be unable to afford full training board with a fancy trainer.
It’s also no sin not to put your horse into full training board if that’s not what you want, regardless of whether you can afford it.
Don’t let the trainer push you around or guilt-trip you.
Good luck.
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^ Couldn’t agree more with Posting Trot. I don’t buy that your horse merely not using his hind end correctly is an “emergency.” I would venture to say that the vast majority of horses in the world don’t use their hind ends correctly. …and many riders don’t know any better, don’t care, or don’t have the technical skills to change that. We all do the best we can. Don’t let this trainer discourage you!
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Now I’m confused. If that was the case, nobody in the world would ever be able to improve a horse’s way of going. The best riders in the world started out as green riders. Somebody taught olympic gold medalists how to post on the correct diagonal or how to ask for a canter, and maybe right now a future top rider is figuring out a half halt.
Sure, a professional would improve your horse (and mine!) faster. But that’s not to say we can’t do it.
I do agree with Posting Trot’s post regarding potential pain issues. Might be worth getting a vet check to see if pain is causing him to be unwilling or unable to use his hind end properly? And yes, you can argue that working a horse “properly” with an engaged hind end will maximize long-term soundness, but as Libby said, a horse not using his hind end properly is more of the norm. A lot of my friends, some of whom are pretty good riders, ride purely for enjoyment - trails, some jumps here and there, and working with their (happy, sound) horses to use their hind end better isn’t even on their radar.
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I mean to a degree, I think the professional has a point - many amateur riders (green or otherwise) don’t have the technical skill to develop horses and help them progress in training. Point blank, it’s hard work and some horses are more challenging than others. Timing is challenging for riders to learn. Correct application of aids is hard. Diagnosing what a horse is doing in the moment (and learning to anticipate it) is hard.
That said, however, I don’t think most horses really care about “progress” “going correctly” or “living up to potential”: frankly, in my experience, the average equine is happiest when they have to do the least amount of work with the least amount of effort expended. (And maximum treat application.)
There are so, so many riders out there who have horses who aren’t going correctly who are still happy with each other, enjoying each other, and having a grand time. And that’s more than alright. If the horse is a safe match for the rider, and the rider is doing no harm to the horse, then it’s really not an issue. The question for you, OP, is then what are your goals? Do your goals involve a requirement to progress (and progress expediently in a more linear fashion rather than with more time and less concrete development)?
Now, your trainer is making claims about pain. This is where I think I, as a spectator via this thread, am pumping the brakes. This wasn’t mentioned earlier and I have questions about that. At the end of the day, you need to assess what symptoms your trainer is identifying and reading as pain. Consult with your vet, and if it seems viable, proceed with diagnoses. I have had a horse in this situation who had pain - and it was kind of a “what came first, the chicken or the egg”: because he wasn’t using himself correctly, his back was a little sore, and because his back was sore he didn’t want to use himself correctly (the origin for us was hock soreness, which changed his posture, causing the back soreness. A combination of muscle relaxant, hock injection after diagnosis, and updated shoeing protocol fixed it for us).
That said, in my situation, it was easy to tell - we had a horse that was previously capable of using himself correctly and then had a dramatic change in feel and form. At the end of the day, the earlier statements about horses not using themselves correctly as a natural way of going is 100% accurate. When did your trainer bring up your horse being in pain? Have they communicated this to you earlier, or only recently when you pressed? I am concerned if it is the latter, because if they think your horse is in pain and haven’t clearly and explicitly communicated this to you as soon as they identified it, I would not be comfortable continuing my professional relationship with them. Regardless of if they are right or not, a trainer who thinks a horse in their program is NQR due to pain should be telling the owner ASAP and then sharing what they have identified to help the owner figure out how to consult with a vet/what points in particular to look at, to start.
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The issue is that my horse is not using his hind end properly. As a result, he has not developed muscles as he should. While this sounds like a somewhat common issue, my trainer has told me my horse is literally in pain as a result of this.
I don’t buy it.
Falling on the forehand won’t, by itself, cause pain. I suppose the horse could be uncomfortable if it’s being cranked into a false frame but if that’s the case, that’s all in the instructor, IMO.
If the horse is going in a false frame because of an underlying physical condition, that’s another thing altogether and needs to be addressed. But if that’s the case, then again, the instructor has been falling down on the job by not letting you know about it earlier.
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I am starting to hear warning bells going off for this trainer, despite trying to give the benefit of the doubt at first. The fact that your trainer interrupted you with the guilt inducing need for training rides means that your trainer wants the ride on your horse, your wallet farther open, or does not have the patience or the skills to work with you both.
I was in the background during a conversation by a trainer who stated why a client was “of no value to her.” The client in question was a child who was content to just take weekly lessons and not compete or intend to purchase or lease a horse in the future. The trainer only wanted to fill her lesson schedule with those students who had “her” goals. Training rides, pro rides at shows and coaching fees are profit margin builders. Some clients want full pro development for their green horse, some want a combination and some want a ‘do it yourself’ route. The key is finding the trainer with the like mind and skill set to do it your way. Your trainer needs to listen to what you want and then find a way to achieve YOUR goal.
As the above posters have said, a vet visit, evaluation and conversation will give you good information to best make decisions for your horse and trainer. Don’t worry about your horse reaching it’s full potential - they just want to be ‘Outstanding In Their Field’ as in eating and pooping with their buddies, and making sure you show up with buckets of treats.
As long as you and your horse are safe together and making improvement, your trainer should be celebrating your ‘teaspoons of success’ and making plans for more teaspoons. As other posters have said it takes a while to build correct muscles, better for your horse to build slow and steady rather then rush with too intense work or gadgets. I wear a bracelet that says “every ride is a journey.” Nothing wrong with wanting to make the journey yourself, you can do it.
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