Another possibly dumb newby question (set of questions-long sorry)

Sounds to me like you’ve made up your mind and the expensive horse is what you want. No, there is no justification for it at a “local” level but if it’s what you want and what you can afford, go get it. You might want to rethink fox hunting though if you’re going to get an expensive dressage horse. Just something to consider. I have my filly insured (mortality and medical) for her appraised value and my insurance premiums are about $4,000 per year. If I was fox hunting her, they would be MUCH higher. The other option would be for me to under insure her (only insure her for 12-15k) and keep the premiums down around $2000-$3000 per year if I want to foxhunt BUT if something happened, I’d be back to square one with just enough seed money to start with a young horse again… I’d lose the money I’ve poured into training. That’s what I mean about decide what you want to do before you get the horse.

I plan on taking the OTTB out on a few hunts after the baby and before the season ends. Not all OTTBs are “nuts.” This guy is a VERY solid citizen and I think with a few months of training he will be husband and kid suitable. He’s also VERY pretty and well put together. That said, we’ve only got him insured for $5000 so the premiums are VERY manageable even with the “fox hunting” penalty.

I showed a young QH gelding who packed his beginner rider around like a saint but turned it on for 2nd level dressage. When he came together, you couldn’t tell he was a QH. His owner had the money to spend and had been riding for about 18 months. She wanted a “fancy” dressage horse but the WBs and the Iberian horses with upper level training that we looked at for her turned out to have too many “buttons” for her to inadvertently push. She paid $9,000 for him, which got her a VERY nice QH but would have only scratched the surface if she’d insisted upon having a brand on her horses butt…

I say, buy the very best horse you can afford because it costs you just as much to keep an OK horse as a nice one.

And yes, everything you said, conformation, temperament, movements, talents, and a whole lot of different things, are very important, especially if you want to get into show rings and have at least some success.

I thought I was going crazy when I purchased my beloved pony (a Morgan gelding who claims to be 15 hands:D). But now I know that was the very best thing I did in terms of horse purchasing. Why? He has unbelievable conformation. He moves like 18 hands horse, bold, and powerful, and when he moves out, the feeling that you are on top of tidal wave that you can direct with your mind is unbelievable. We have success and fun in both A circuit dressage and hunter rings. He is so kind and tolerant that he forgives all my ammy mistakes and became my confidence builder. And best of all, he has such a good mind that I am safe and comfortable when I take him outside of the confinement of a ring (oh I do take him out for trail ride and fox hunt). They are good for both his and my minds and fitness.

Now I’m not saying all expensive horses are going to be like that. But you should expect to pay decent money for a nice fancy horses with great minds.

Good luck.

[EDIT] By the way, if want a horse with stamina, try a Morgan. After 3 hours of hunting, my boy always looks like ready to go for anothre 3 hours. I’m dog tired and there he is happy as happy can be. And his small statue make ducking low branches much much easier.

[QUOTE=Lesson13;4536962]
A quarterhorse might work but most of the one’s I’m seeing don’t look as though they’d be enthused about tooling around the countryside for hours which is what I envisioned doing. They seem like short spurt to go get the cow kinds of horses and then amble on the trail the rest of the time. [/QUOTE]

You are looking at the wrong quarter horses!!! :lol: If you ever want to toodle around on one, you’re welcome to come borrow mine. She’s anything BUT a cow pony.

JWB So basically I could buy a whole other horse to fox hunt on and pay board on it for the price of insurance on a warmblood dressage horse? Seriously that is exorbitant (the insurance cost) but I assume that insurance is based on risk+ some profit to the insurance companies or they wouldn’t offer the service if if didn’t have some basis in reality.

Also I don’t know that the horse I described w/the good conformation would have to be an expensive horse or a dressage horse officially or a branded warmblood…It sounds like there’s OTTBs with warmbloodish conformation that could be trained to go second flight (I’m not sure I’ll be willing to risk myself as a first flight person let alone afford a horse trained to easily jump 3+ feet). It sounds like you have one yourself. I do get the impression my instructor is somewhat sold on warmblood calmness and manageability although I’ve seen a few in her barn that were more flighty especially when ridden by an amateur so I think I know what you mean about the buttons to push problem.

Really I’ve been looking at biggish connemaras and irish draughts and thinking those would be a possibility but again trained, older but not so old ones do so seem more on the expensive side compared with a QH.

See u at x please bring some pics with you of your non-cow pony on Sunday!

Gloria we have a Morgan who trains out our barn. His rider is incredible and she sponsors a gal who rides a huge beautiful warmblood but she say’s she’ll never buy a horse that big again. She looks wonderful on the Morgan and her pro has all kinds of troubles with the Warmblood-gorgeous to look at but not so good at the canter…

Awww… Even my $900 appy could go first flight and jump everything I put in front of him. I don’t think it’s ureasonable for ANY sound horse to be able to jump 3ft if it’s put together right at all!

Warbloods are a mixed bucket as far as temperment goes. (Putting on flame suit) I worked on a Trakhener farm for a while - those horses spent the first 3 years on their hind legs and lots of them had BIG bucks. I rode some old-style imported hanoverians and and found them to be WAY more work than they were worth. I LOVE my Belgian warmblood filly’s attitude but she is 85% TB!!

You might be able to find something similar in an Apendix QH or an unregistered TB/WB cross… My little sister had an unregistered TB/Holsteiner cross for years. The sire was Lemgo, the mother - a nice TB who’s papers had been lost so she couldn’t be inspected. We got him for $8000 as a five year old - jumping, with lead changes… He was a warmblood cross. A few years later, they got that mare’s papers, got her inspected, and started registering her foals as branded Holsteiners… Multiply the price we paid by 4 and that’s what the babies started going for. Mind you- these were FULL siblings, with the same training as the “WB cross” that we bought.

My point - You can get an EXCELLENT horse for $7000-$15000 if you look at some of those WB crosses, QH crosses, etc.
Case in point - and I realize this is the upper end of the price range - bu what would this 10 yr. old, bomb proof, 2nd level, jumps 3 ft, changes leads and packs beginners go for if he was a WB? A lot more than 15K!!!
http://www.equine.com/horses-for-sale/horse-ad-913146.html

I’m not See U at X and won’t be there Sunday, but hey, here are some cowponies that had no problem tooling around at any speed:

This one hunted for 20 years(after a western pleasure career)($700):

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=149787154&albumID=649540&imageID=1707798

This one packed beginners and kids or whipped in (free breeding, out of my $200 mare):

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=149787154&albumID=649540&imageID=1797536

The next two are the aforementioned $4k fellow (built for comfort, not speed, nevertheless he went 30+ miles in a day’s hunting out west more than once!):

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=149787154&albumID=649540&imageID=1797897

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=149787154&albumID=649540&imageID=1182681

I’ll speak up for $750 ottbs too:

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=149787154&albumID=649540&imageID=1074604

As I think about it, since that first example is a pair race…my partner had a TB and we did beat ‘all tb’ teams in the fast time division, including bona fide timber horses, at 3-4 miles. So yes, I would concur you haven’t seen the right cow ponies!:slight_smile:

wait until May (graduation month) and find a nice horse like you described in your post that has a graduating student owner… then stalk.

i knew a girl that did this almost every year when looking for prospects and had the NICEST horses that she was able to get for 5k and under. she called them the “no more daddy’s money” horses. they were trained and lessoned and showed and groomed and sound and fed and everything you said you want!

it sounds awful and sad i know, but its sort of a sad fact. espec. at h/j and event barns where teenage girls abound.

[QUOTE=skip916;4538933]
wait until May (graduation month) and find a nice horse like you described in your post that has a graduating student owner… then stalk.

i knew a girl that did this almost every year when looking for prospects and had the NICEST horses that she was able to get for 5k and under. she called them the “no more daddy’s money” horses. they were trained and lessoned and showed and groomed and sound and fed and everything you said you want!

it sounds awful and sad i know, but its sort of a sad fact. espec. at h/j and event barns where teenage girls abound.[/QUOTE]

wow never heard that one B4

here is a money making idea
write a book
“Amazing horse shopping secrets for Noobies”
or how not to go to the cleaner!

good tips such as the above
and expose all the cheats sellers use.

Remember that you’re buying a horse, not a particular breed.

Lots of people start horse shopping with a particular idea in mind . . . and end up with a horse that is nothing like what they envisioned!

If, for example, you want to hunt second flight, find a horse that has a good brain, has hunted long enough to know the job and show that he likes it, is sure footed, comfortable, and has brakes. It doesn’t matter if it’s an OTTB or a Haflinger (both of which are ridden in our hunt).

If you want a horse that can jump in the first flight, find one with proven performance that is honest, has enough talent to get over the trappiest fences in your territory, and which has a sense of humor when it comes to having a newbie rider that might get left behind. Oh, yes, one that doesn’t take of on the other side of the fence is good too!

The most I’ve ever spent on a horse is 6K and that was for a fancy Trakehner who had some training issues. Before that I spent 1K for a grade horse (mostly QH) who was so much fun to ride and was a huge confidence builder. I’ve also owned two OTTBs. My current hunt horse cost $300 off the track and is coming along nicely but would not be a good ride for someone starting out.

As for conformation . . . yes, it’s good to avoid the ones with glaring flaws but sometimes horses are plenty sound even though they’re not perfect. And there are ones that look perfect that always seem to be lame!

Here’s the $600 (bought as a 2 y.o.), 15h QH (she’s actually half paint, but you can’t tell it to look at her):

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v236/114/69/1058848026/n1058848026_51087_9026.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs047.snc1/2838_1131370278643_1058848026_382300_3865450_n.jpg

http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs111.snc1/4818_1161278186322_1058848026_480197_2068982_n.jpg

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2242/114/69/1058848026/n1058848026_310064_4833.jpg

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs210.snc1/7721_1223256815749_1058848026_698982_4172646_n.jpg

http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs210.snc1/7721_1223256855750_1058848026_698983_7494383_n.jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs230.snc1/7721_1223256895751_1058848026_698984_5917454_n.jpg

She’s my steady eddy - I can throw pretty much anyone on her and she’ll babysit them. She likes to make me look like a fool now and then, but it’s never anything serious. :wink:

And here’s my 16h TB (less than 5K) who is awesome, but way more sensitive and definitely not a beginner horse:

http://hphotos-snc1.fbcdn.net/hs230.snc1/7721_1223257135757_1058848026_698990_1688962_n.jpg

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs230.snc1/7721_1223257015754_1058848026_698987_2719844_n.jpg

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v253/114/69/1058848026/n1058848026_64913_1214.jpg

Sorry, I don’t really have a lot of pictures of me riding because I hate most photos of myself because I hate how fat I look in them. :lol:

I agree - in my club there is an absolutely fantastic horse - worth her weight in gold.

Stay out of her way - she knows her job. Great family horse, too.

I think her owner got her for less than 1000$. BUT her owner is a pretty savvy and experienced horse owner.

A friend of mine has some ranch horse from… Montana? I think. I don’t remember. I’ll see her tonight and will ask her about his history.

He is my dream horse - alas - he is not for sale. Does it all. Great mind and sound.

Another friend who hunted with Bull Run for many years (some of y’all may remember him). Had a QH mare that was the light of his life. She was one in a million. We all still speak of her with great fondness.

The horses I ended up with are not the horses I went shopping for. But they were all wonderful horses.

My favorite horse is a grade horse - I have no idea where he came from or what his breeding is. He will never do the Grand Prix, he will never event at Intermediate.

But he keeps me safe out hunting. That’s good enough for me. :slight_smile:

Skip 916 I was told by the mother of a talented eventer at our a barn that she was cutting her off after she graduated. This was at the start of the girl’s senior year in college and she said it like she hadn’t told her daughter yet. I was shocked. Of course my parents cut me off when I graduated too but I was only used to them paying tuition and not used to them paying room and board for my best friend too. My husband said maybe she will go pro. I was thinking maybe she’d be forced to get her MRS degree which would probably not be hard because she is adorable and sweet. Board, vet bills, maintenance and registration on a trailer and a truck seem like a lot to carry with a Bachelor’s degree if she can find a job in this market.

I guess if she can’t swing it somehow she will be selling him. I come from the dog show world where many small breeders carefully vet prospective owners to ensure they are committed for the life of the dog and if for any reason they can’t keep the dog, theirs a contract that the dog comes back to the breeder. Horses seem to be viewed by many as a commodity or an asset.

Also, the whole notion of gee you worked hard and got your degree now you have to sell your horse seemed really sad.

On the otherhand, one persons loss is another persons’ gain and it seems possible that she got the horse the same way. I will keep this buy in May advice in mind. There’s no sense in overpaying but I don’t want to try to be cheap and end up in something that doesn’t work when I could have been a bit more generous to myself and gotten something that was just right.

good luck!

the biggest thing is to be patient. when you are ready for a horse you will find the one that’s right for you regardless of what you may “think” you want. when you find it you will just know! sort of like finding a husband! :wink:

Since we are sharing our low-dollar ponies, here is our free rescue TB. We’re retraining him and cleaning him up and hopefully will move him on to a new home before too long. He’s got such a fantastic mind and will make a great hunt horse or local show horse some day!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/Julz226/Beans.jpg

JWB he looks very nice.

Do you mind if I ask what’s up with the tail? Several I’ve seen from the track seem to have extra short tails. Is that typical of a young horse or do they trim them at the track for some reason?

Skip916-maybe that’s my problem. I have been “found” by three husbands.

If you asked them 2 would say I was a “nag!” so they moved on to greener pastures. I would say I “sadly outgrew” them…

See U at X-I had to watch a video of myself and almost died. That was after I thought I looked skinny for me. Ugh! Nothing like tan breeches to make one’s ass look big as the sahara desert!

No idea - we were wondering the same thing when he arrived. The others from his group did not have short tails but he’d been passed around quite a bit so maybe someone took it off. They take forever to grow in :frowning:

Having lived in several sectors of the horsie world, my advice to anyone buying a horse would be to have a good horse trainer (not necessarily people trainer) as a good friend:)

I have never spent more than $1000 on a horse, and have ended up with very safe, sound, competitive, fun mounts.

I have ridden $50,000 horses that were also safe, sound, competitive, and fun to ride, but not $49,000 worth!

The little guy I have now was less than free, and he is admired everywhere he goes as a saint in the hunt field, an accomplished event horse (held back only by his rider), and he always finishes in the ribbons when I wander over to the H/J world.

Alas, I wouldn’t take $50k for him if I was offered today… horse people are crazy plain and simple!

like a yacht

big buck toys

I once rode a semi retired show jumper that probably cost a lot
but in the late 1980s the owner was spending like it was his last decade on earth, turns out it was.

so if like him you dont mind pissing away a billion dollar fortune borrow and spend
but people will write about the foolishness

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2003/0811/068_print.html

That’s nice to hear. I’ve been cautiously in the market for a while, and the more I sniff around, the more my gut tells me I should be able to get a perfectly decent mount for not much more than that.

Now, do I really know enough to distinguish the diamond in the rough from the quartz? I doubt it, but I’m pretty sure if I just continue to suit up and show up, I’ll get there, and maybe soon enough.

I love horses and feel an instinctive connection to other equestrians, but I have to say, the horse world seems to me unparalleled in its institutional crookedness. I’ve seen quite a number of people–who in other spheres of life are probably perfectly decent–become the shadiest characters when it comes to wheeling and dealing in horses. It’s as if they believe getting ripped off is a de rigeur hazing ritual you have to go through to join the tribe.

no biases!

Oh Mr Leblanc! Your last sentence is profound and often true I fear. :sadsmile: The tribe is not always nice! Thats why we need mentors, friends, and fellow tribe members to look out for us and guide us. My best advice? Get a large group of guardian angels to advise or run stuff by before you decide. I encourage leasing too before buying if you can. Get to know the horse first-it’s like a marriage. You’ll be together for a long time so it’s important you like & trust each other!
Carry no breed biases with you as you look. A good horse is a good horse. Kinda like men!!! :winkgrin: